p4p in Lightroom - AEB files all show same exposure

[Tomas Wangen]

I don't believe AEB is working properly - others here agree. Regardless of EXIF.

It should NOT be used in aperture priority mode. OR shutter priority mode.

Please add some actual photos showing the assumed problem. I have seen no such evidence and my own testing has shown no other issues than the exif-bug. Speculating without data is close to pointless and only adds confusion for readers.

 

[inkytog]

Please add some actual photos showing the assumed problem. I have seen no such evidence and my own testing has shown no other issues than the exif-bug. Speculating without data is close to pointless and only adds confusion for readers.

There's a few discussions about this already. However - unless the p4p camera functions in some different way to a top of the line DSLR then users should not use any of the 'auto modes' for exposure to get proper bracketed shots. Thats just they way it works. Not a quirk of DJI - just not something that as a photographer I would recommend.

I would be happy to be proved wrong but if people want to experiment using manual or auto I think they will find better results from Manual mode.

 

[Tomas Wangen]

There's a few discussions about this already. However - unless the p4p camera functions in some different way to a top of the line DSLR then users should not use any of the 'auto modes' for exposure to get proper bracketed shots. Thats just they way it works. Not a quirk of DJI - just not something that as a photographer I would recommend.

I would be happy to be proved wrong but if people want to experiment using manual or auto I think they will find better results from Manual mode.

Shooting AEB in bursts (such as the p4p does) provides no problems with locking metering between shots (which will in most cases also be sub-second from first to last). Please also note that it is not possible to prove non-existence (in this case of a possible bug) and therefore you cannot be proven wrong.

 

[Zzz]

I don't believe AEB is working properly - others here agree. Regardless of EXIF.

It should NOT be used in aperture priority mode. OR shutter priority mode.

But if you use it full manual, the P4P seems to be adjusting ISO to achieve different exposure levels rather than shutter... at least judging by the horrible variation in noise, which shouldn't be the case with a 0.7 step shutter adjustments.

 

[inkytog]

it's po

Shooting AEB in bursts (such as the p4p does) provides no problems with locking metering between shots (which will in most cases also be sub-second from first to last). Please also note that it is not possible to prove a negative (therefore you cannot be proven wrong).

It's possible someone can show that I'm talking rubbish - but are we now discussing semantics or a weird way that the drone handles exposures? IMO it's not right - it doesn't work as if I'd expect a camera to work and I'm comparing it to a proper camera.

 

[Meta4]

Thank you - no offence but I've been a professional photographer for about 15 years so I totally know what the shooting modes mean.

Going by your comment on aperture priority above, I'm not sure that I agree.

With AV or A mode as it is on the Phantom, the camera wil indeed adjust the settings according to the aperture you select - BUT if you're looking at this with AEB mode then it doesn't quite work like that. The camera will attempt to get a 'proper' (0) Exposure when you set it to AV mode. Then the camera will put in a -EV and and +EV. but each time it does this the camera will be actually exposing 'correctly' so won't be actually adding in the + or - properly. The only way to do this would be Manual.

I've read this 3 times and still can't make sense of it..
Look at the exif info for the photos I showed above
There is no extra +/- put in by the camera, the aperture and ISO value remain the same, only the shutter speed changes and it by the 0.7 stop increment that is what DJI gives us.
The resulting photos are 0.0, -0.7 and +0.7. They are not all exposed correctly at all.

You can't shoot proper bracketed shots in AV mode for this reason. The camera will ALWAYS be trying to give you a correct exposure and even though it's over and under exposing it will confuse the concept. It is like this on every camera - you can't automate this process and get satisfactory results.

There's definitely a confused concept here.
I use AEB often on my Nikon D800 and it works quite well - just as it does with the Phantom 3 or Phantom 4.
I don't know where you got these ideas from and I can't see anything to back them up.

 

[inkytog]

No -

But if you use it full manual, the P4P seems to be adjusting ISO to achieve different exposure levels rather than shutter... at least judging by the horrible variation in noise, which shouldn't be the case with a 0.7 step shutter adjustments.

if you are full manual it should not adjust anything apart from the shutter speed. Certainly not ISO but I think this is the problem - I see noise on my shots at the + or - images. I started this thread because I think the EV is being changed by the camera using ISO.

As I said - the best way to shoot bracketed shots (for now anyway) is just manual - not actually using the AEB setting but to use the camera as a camera in manual and shoot the shots yourself.

 

[Meta4]

On the shutter speeds of the EXIF - would have taken at least a second if those shutter speeds are correct.

Check your arithmetic again.
The shutter speeds are .00087secs + .000552 + .001371
That makes the shutter open for a total of 0.002793 seconds or less than 3 one thousandths of a second leaving plenty of time to open and close a few times and still be comfortably under one second.
The camera can shoot in burst mode at 14 frames per sec.
It can certainly shoot a bracket of 3 in a second.

 

[Meta4]

if you are full manual it should not adjust anything apart from the shutter speed. Certainly not ISO but I think this is the problem - I see noise on my shots at the + or - images. I started this thread because I think the EV is being changed by the camera using ISO.

But there's no evidence that this happens at all.
What makes do you think it is happening?

As I said - the best way to shoot bracketed shots (for now anyway) is just manual - not actually using the AEB setting but to use the camera as a camera in manual and shoot the shots yourself.

Since the camera does just this anyway, doing it manually is completely unnecessary.

 

[inkytog]

Going by your comment on aperture priority above, I'm not sure that I agree.

ok - my head is fuzzy this morning - let me clarify....

If you change the f stop between shots you are bracketing then you are changing a variable that will not just affect the exposure of the final image.

I shoot a shot at f8 with AEB
then the next shot is -0.7 (still no idea why it's not a full stop but hey, DJI know best) Then the AEB should then adjust the shot to give you the next image - so what does it change? On My DSLR it changes the aperture. You indeed set the initial shot but then the next f stop in the sequence will be different. so there will be one at f8, one at f5.6 and one at f11. in a series of 3 bracketed shots. BUT that is using FULL stops, so what the aperture will be if it's using 0.7 is anyones guess.

This impacts the images. The depth of field changes, and the look of the photo changes and I do think with all this that the ISO is also being used to create the + and - exposures.

Why would you want the aperture to change between shots? So what should it do? It should lock the exposure and f stop and adjust the shutter speed. NOT the ISO or the f-stop.

 

[inkytog]

Check your arithmetic again.
The shutter speeds are .00087secs + .000552 + .001371
That makes the shutter open for a total of 0.002793 seconds or less than 3 one thousandths of a second leaving plenty of time to open and close a few times and still be comfortably under one second.
The camera can shoot in burst mode at 14 frames per sec.
It can certainly shoot a bracket of 3 in a second.

Were do you see the shutter speeds as that - it shows 1/18xxx and 1/ whatever. Where to you see .00087 etc?

 

[Meta4]

Were do you see the shutter speeds as that - it shows 1/18xxx and 1/ whatever. Where to you see .00087 etc?

I put the fractions into a spreadsheet so I could add them together.
It's basic arithmetic.

 

[inkytog]

I put the fractions into a spreadsheet so I could add them together.
It's basic arithmetic.

Am I being stupid here but isn't it the same as 1/18th of a second.

 

[Meta4]

If you change the f stop between shots you are bracketing then you are changing a variable that will not just affect the exposure of the final image.

I shoot a shot at f8 with AEB
then the next shot is -0.7 (still no idea why it's not a full stop but hey, DJI know best) Then the AEB should then adjust the shot to give you the next image - so what does it change? On My DSLR it changes the aperture.

Why would you want the aperture to change between shots? So what should it do? It should lock the exposure and f stop and adjust the shutter speed. NOT the ISO or the f-stop.

You haven't understood anything I've said or the simple exif data shown in the photos above.
I used aperture priority.
The aperture remains the same for all photos.
If your camera changes the aperture when you try to shoot AEB, that sounds like you have it i shutter priority.
Aperture priority means you set the aperture and it stays fixed while the shutter speed varies.

 

[Meta4]

Am I being stupid here but isn't it the same as 1/18th of a second.

Not quite.
1/1811 of a second is nothing like 1/18th of a second.
It's close to 1/2000th sec.

 

[inkytog]

Not quite.
1/1811 of a second is nothing like 1/18th of a second.
It's close to 1/2000th sec.

I am being thick then.

 

[Zzz]

it's po


It's possible someone can show that I'm talking rubbish - but are we now discussing semantics or a weird way that the drone handles exposures? IMO it's not right - it doesn't work as if I'd expect a camera to work and I'm comparing it to a proper camera.

Obviously you have to adjust your techniques to each camera, even more so a broken/buggy one. Just because there's a "proper" general way to do it (which I agree with), why insist on it if it clearly doesn't work (at the moment anyway) on one camera that actually matters - to most people on this forum anyway.

Clearly going full manual in AEB does not employ the expected procedures (shutter adjustment) so I say adjust your technique until next firmware update hopefully fixes it, or go by your "proper" technique and have your camera produce subpar results...

 

[inkytog]

Obviously you have to adjust your techniques to each camera, even more so a broken/buggy one. Just because there's a "proper" general way to do it (which I agree with), why insist on it if it clearly doesn't work (at the moment anyway) on one camera that actually matters - to most people on this forum anyway.

Clearly going full manual in AEB does not employ the expected procedures (shutter adjustment) so I say adjust your technique until next firmware update hopefully fixes it, or go by your "proper" technique and have your camera produce subpar results...

Why is full manual NOT the right way? Now I'm even more confused

 

[Zzz]

No -

if you are full manual it should not adjust anything apart from the shutter speed. Certainly not ISO but I think this is the problem - I see noise on my shots at the + or - images. I started this thread because I think the EV is being changed by the camera using ISO.

Why are you telling me what it SHOULD DO when clearly that's not what this camera DOES? That is not what is being discussed here - people are not looking for a general lecture but a solution to a practical and current problem.

 

[Zzz]

As I said - the best way to shoot bracketed shots (for now anyway) is just manual - not actually using the AEB setting but to use the camera as a camera in manual and shoot the shots yourself.

That I would agree with, however I'm afraid the extended time it would take to manually set 5 exposures would result in way too much movement both in drone as well as the scene to be able to produce good results constantly.