P4 to P4P - Your thoughts?

ianwood · Dec 21, 2016

@hidaven , I'll just leave this here:

What was it you were saying about the sensor again?

Kman · Dec 21, 2016

pilot ss said:
The image was focus by tapping the centre of the screen using AF, should I be using MF?
Settings were in manual mode -2 -2 -2, iso100, auto white balance. What should o be changing to ensure that I am getting better quality stills?

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You're turning down the camera settings and then complaining about the quality? Come on! Try shooting in DNG with stock settings and see how that does.

I only ever turn down the settings when I'm doing video, not when I am taking stills.

pilot ss · Dec 21, 2016

Kman said:
You're turning down the camera settings and then complaining about the quality? Come on! Try shooting in DNG with stock settings and see how that does.

I only ever turn down the settings when I'm doing video, not when I am taking stills.

OK, will try this. I am open to any ideas, just trying to improve on the stills I have taken.
How do you suggest about going about the focusing on the P4P?

Thanks for the info!

Kman · Dec 21, 2016

pilot ss said:
OK, will try this. I am open to any ideas, just trying to improve on the stills I have taken.
How do you suggest about going about the focusing on the P4P?

Thanks for the info!

I know in the settings you can turn on the red lines to help assist. I have a P4, haven't picked up the P4P yet. Post another DNG later and I'll edit it in Lightroom tonight.

You can see some of my work here - https://www.instagram.com/keithkman

RandyHat · Dec 21, 2016

I have fairly extensive experience with the P4 and the P4 Pro. The still images from the Pro are better. At this level of refinement of the technology I suppose it's a personal opinion as to whether the improvements are minor or huge. There is a law of diminishing returns. You do have to be more aware of focusing with the P4 pro, so in that respect it is a little more hands on than the camera in the P4. The Pro camera also does better with lower light/high iso photos. The advantage of the P4 is that you can get decent photos buy just pointing and shooting whereas the Pro version gives you a camera that necessitates just a little more attention. That is pretty much the case though with any camera, whether it flies or is handheld. A better camera does not automatically result in better pictures. You have to know how to use it to it's best advantage. Photographers will willingly spend the extra money to get a camera that will give better results.

pilot ss · Dec 21, 2016

RandyHat said:
I have fairly extensive experience with the P4 and the P4 Pro. The still images from the Pro are better. At this level of refinement of the technology I suppose it's a personal opinion as to whether the improvements are minor or huge. There is a law of diminishing returns. You do have to be more aware of focusing with the P4 pro, so in that respect it is a little more hands on than the camera in the P4. The Pro camera also does better with lower light/high iso photos. The advantage of the P4 is that you can get decent photos buy just pointing and shooting whereas the Pro version gives you a camera that necessitates just a little more attention. That is pretty much the case though with any camera, whether it flies or is handheld. A better camera does not automatically result in better pictures. You have to know how to use it to it's best advantage. Photographers will willingly spend the extra money to get a camera that will give better results.

Have you done any tutorials at all on the Pro's camera? Having no photography background, I am trying to learn as much as possible from people like yourself who know what they are talking about.
What settings do you suggest for RAW stills? How to you focus your P4P camera?

Cheers

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F3honda4me · Dec 21, 2016

pilot ss said:
Will try -1 0 0 and focusing on closer objects when the weather fines up a little. I read that focusing in the middle of the screen was the best idea (which is what I did on this particular still). Won't focusing on close objects make the objects in the distance blurry? So much to learn coming from the more point and shoot P4..

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Given what you are trying to take an image of you may want to try manual settings. My uneducated guess is that this ties into what your settings were based upon what the camera chose. For example, what was your fstop when the picture was taken? That will affect the depth of what is in focus and what is not. For example if the fstop was 2.8 the depth of field will be short and as you get away from the object of focus chosen (foward or backward in the image) the less in focus it will be. It looks to me like the house in the middle of the image is the most in focus, so if you had a low fstop like 2.8 it explains why everything else looks out of focus. If you choose something like fstop of 8 that would increase the depth, though you also have to adjust other settings accordingly.

Someone might have a youtube video or something that explains these settings and how to use them on the P4P. Here is a basic article that explains more. Focusing Basics | Aperture and Depth of Field

And yes you should probably focus on something in the middle if you're going far a larger shot like your example.

pilot ss · Dec 21, 2016

F3honda4me said:
Given what you are trying to take an image of you may want to try manual settings. My uneducated guess is that this ties into what your settings were based upon what the camera chose. For example, what was your fstop when the picture was taken? That will affect the depth of what is in focus and what is not. For example if the fstop was 2.8 the depth of field will be short and as you get away from the object of focus chosen (foward or backward in the image) the less in focus it will be. It looks to me like the house in the middle of the image is the most in focus, so if you had a low fstop like 2.8 it explains why everything else looks out of focus. If you choose something like fstop of 8 that would increase the depth, though you also have to adjust other settings accordingly.

Someone might have a youtube video or something that explains these settings and how to use them on the P4P. Here is a basic article that explains more. Focusing Basics | Aperture and Depth of Field

And yes you should probably focus on something in the middle if you're going far a larger shot like your example.

With that image, it was manual settings. -2 -2 -2 ISO 100 and I believe the fstop was around 5.6 (can't entirely remember, as I was changing often) tap to focus was in the centre of the screen.
I will have a look at the link you've provided.

Cheers

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Meta4 · Dec 21, 2016

pilot ss said:
Won't focusing on close objects make the objects in the distance blurry? So much to learn coming from the more point and shoot P4.

The lens is equivalent to a 24mm on a full frame SLR so it's quite wide and so has very good depth of field anyway.
And as an aerial camera, you are rarely (if ever) going to have a subject close enough to the lens to make any difference.

aaronrivera · Dec 22, 2016

Noise is much lower at low light. I was happy with it. But going all the way to 6400 iso was abit too much. I will do a comparison video soon as i still hv my p4. Range is so disapointing. 800m and its rth by itself. Had one of those scary moments where ur screen goes blank for about 10 secs but feels like forever. I like the new spring in the motors. I rilly like the camera.. i havent taken photos yet just night videos coz i know thats where i was so disapointed wid p4 coming from p3 pro. Focusing is a new challenge. But its nice feature i guess. Another thing u have to worry bout. So if u can sell ur p4 and just add a couple hundred usd for p4 pro, i think its fine. But if i were to choose p4 or p4pro 6k hkd or 12k hkd here in hong kong. Then ill go wid p4.

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pilot ss · Dec 22, 2016

Did another trial this afternoon..
0, 0, 0, f/10 iso 100 tap to focus at a close imagine & a far away image, still not too happy with the results. depth of field doesn't seem to be anywhere near as good as what others are achieving. also tried f/8 and f/11, still with no luck.
Looks as though objects in the distance are quite noisy.
Really not too sure what else I could be doing incorrectly. I am 100% tapping to focus before every shot..

Meta4 · Dec 22, 2016

aaronrivera said:
Range is so disapointing. 800m and its rth by itself.

Either swap from 5.8 to 2.4 or get out of the city.
the p4p will fly a long way, much more than 800m

F3honda4me · Dec 22, 2016

pilot ss said:
Did another trial this afternoon..
0, 0, 0, f/10 iso 100 tap to focus at a close imagine & a far away image, still not too happy with the results. depth of field doesn't seem to be anywhere near as good as what others are achieving. also tried f/8 and f/11, still with no luck.
Looks as though objects in the distance are quite noisy.
Really not too sure what else I could be doing incorrectly. I am 100% tapping to focus before every shot..

Can you post the raw images? Maybe others can help.

Meta4 · Dec 22, 2016

pilot ss said:
still not too happy with the results. depth of field doesn't seem to be anywhere near as good as what others are achieving.

This has the equivalent of a 24mm lens so should have plenty of depth of field regardless of settings.

pilot ss said:
also tried f/8 and f/11, still with no luck.

If you aren't familiar with camera settings, it's easy to make a mess of things.
It might be better to set things back and try plain vanilla auto with default values and shoot jpg rather than raw.
This should get you pretty good results most of the time.
Mine is still on default values and getting excellent results.

Meta4 · Dec 22, 2016

FlyMasterA said:
Is the Phantom 4 Pro + and Phantom 4 Pro V2.0 the same drone? Or are there upgrades to the 2.0?

There is no V2.0
The two models are the P4 pro and P4 pro+
The only difference is the + controller has a hardwired dedicated screen.

hidaven · Dec 23, 2016

Nonsense, stop drinking the koolaid. I can show you great low light video on the P4 as well. He even states its not a Pro dslr sensor.......Its better for stills. The Flog is useless, the H.365 had banding issues. Video is on par wit the P4, stills are better with the P4P. My comment was directed at whomever called the sensor a RX100 clone. Its NOT. I'm a pro photographer, trust me that theres more to a image from an RX100 than just the sensor.

ianwood said:
@hidaven , I'll just leave this here:

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What was it you were saying about the sensor again?

F3honda4me · Dec 23, 2016

hidaven said:
Nonsense, stop drinking the koolaid. I can show you great low light video on the P4 as well. He even states its not a Pro dslr sensor.......Its better for stills. The Flog is useless, the H.365 had banding issues. Video is on par wit the P4, stills are better with the P4P. My comment was directed at whomever called the sensor a RX100 clone. Its NOT. I'm a pro photographer, trust me that theres more to a image from an RX100 than just the sensor.

What is h365? What is Flog?

Also can you please post side by side comparison videos in varying lighting of the P4 and P4P? I have not yet seen one side by side that shows the P4 being "on par" with the P4P.