Motors Oiled?
- Thread starter d4ddyo
- Start date
The notchiness is from the magnets passing the windings. This is less noticeable after the engines are hot as this opens up the tolerances between them I suspect. This is totally different of coarse if you fell a grinding/binding sensation. Then it's time for new bearings.
I'd avoid oiling them, you will do far more harm than good. They are greased and have metal shields that are designed to make them sealed for life and maintenance free.
If you use an oil light enough to penetrate the shield all you will achieve is to dilute the grease, significantly reducing the life of the bearing, and the remaining oil that drips past the bearing will just allow dust and grit to stick to it rather than be flung away by centrifugal force. The dust and grit will be abrasive and accelerate wear of moving parts.
I suspect that in most cases, as long as the bearings have been installed properly, they are kept dry and free of oil and barring any heavy crashes involving prop strikes, the bearings will out last the rest of the motor.
If you use an oil light enough to penetrate the shield all you will achieve is to dilute the grease, significantly reducing the life of the bearing, and the remaining oil that drips past the bearing will just allow dust and grit to stick to it rather than be flung away by centrifugal force. The dust and grit will be abrasive and accelerate wear of moving parts.
I suspect that in most cases, as long as the bearings have been installed properly, they are kept dry and free of oil and barring any heavy crashes involving prop strikes, the bearings will out last the rest of the motor.
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Umm... fortunately not. RAP only kicks in when sticks are not centered. More than 20 seconds of unchanging stick input will activate RAP.The Editor said:
But other things can trigger RTH so it's always safest to run the motors indoors without props. And if you must have props on then switch RAP and Failsafe off first and/or place something heavy through the landing gear (not ferrous metal of course to avoid compass troubles).
Don't forget to re-enable RAP and Failsafe afterwards if you have disabled them.
WessexWyvern said:
I disagree. I have had long conversations with one of the major European suppliers and distributors of T-Motors (http://www.multirotor.co/index.php?osCsid=a4528c45c6cbbb6c2fc259bbf7d5dae7). I have purchased many different size motors from them and built numerous multicopters utilising T-Motors which are at the better end for quality and reliability in the motor world. They order and supply more motors than many retailers combined - In fact, that's pretty much all they do and specialize in.
They have confirmed to me that T-Motor themselves advise periodic lubrication of their motors and replacement of the bearings after approx 60 hours flight. The bearings will not last forever or outlast the life of the motor!
I have been flying R/C aircraft for 20 years and have ALWAYS lubricated my heli bearings. I have NEVER had a bearing fail on me yet.
Having said the comments above, everybody is free to either lubricate or not lubricate as they see fit. I can only offer my own personal experience gathered through building hexacopters and flying CP R/C helicopters for a good many years.
Just to confirm my credentials I spent 10 years as a time served mechanical fitter - I see sealed for life metal shield bearings on my stock Phantom motors, based on my experience, under normal conditions they just aren't going to shed any grease and you'd know it if they did. Even so, light oil is no substitute anyway. Just passing on my experience.
http://www.skf.com/group/products/beari ... index.html
http://www.skf.com/group/products/beari ... index.html
ianwood
Taco Wrangler
I agree that light oil is not a good idea. If the bearing was meant to be oiled, we would have instructions to do so and it would be on a fairly regular basis. If you want to maintain your bearings, you need to open them up, clean them and repack them with the right grease according to the manufacturer's specs. Easier just to leave them alone, check motor temps when you land, look for notchiness and/or noise, and replace bearings when you suspect they may be getting worn out.
And everyone is entitled to their own opinion and can make up their own mind whether they want to lubricate their bearings or not.
I shall say no more on the subject!
I shall say no more on the subject!
The bearings are not sealed, just shielded, which means they only keep the big stuff out, dust easily can affect them.
The proper way to service the bearings is to take apart the motor, remove the bearings, take the clips off the shields, remove shields. Clean all parts, then put a very slight dab of grease, reassemble. If I need to take apart the motor, it's far easier simply to replace the bearings, so using a light machine oil is the quickest fix and will keep you flying.
As for me I use a needle oiler and put a drop of oil in each bearing if the motors start to feel warmer than usual. I had a new set of T-motors starting to seize because I had launched from a dirt field. All I did was lube them and they've been fine since.
As for my credentials....much too long to list.....however I have taken apart the motors on my Phantom after having one seize after less than 10 flights. Guess you can say they are sealed for life, since I chose to replace the bearings instead of taking them apart, in my case life was just a handful of flights.....want to extend their life, lube them regularly.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8UVu8YuC8iE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYqtwd4xXYo
The proper way to service the bearings is to take apart the motor, remove the bearings, take the clips off the shields, remove shields. Clean all parts, then put a very slight dab of grease, reassemble. If I need to take apart the motor, it's far easier simply to replace the bearings, so using a light machine oil is the quickest fix and will keep you flying.
As for me I use a needle oiler and put a drop of oil in each bearing if the motors start to feel warmer than usual. I had a new set of T-motors starting to seize because I had launched from a dirt field. All I did was lube them and they've been fine since.
As for my credentials....much too long to list.....however I have taken apart the motors on my Phantom after having one seize after less than 10 flights. Guess you can say they are sealed for life, since I chose to replace the bearings instead of taking them apart, in my case life was just a handful of flights.....want to extend their life, lube them regularly.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8UVu8YuC8iE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYqtwd4xXYo
Big Ben said:
Not meaning to hijack..... but .... RAP is supposed to sense a period of time with no controller input and interpret it as loss of control signal. In a situation where there is no signal, the sticks could be locked in corners and it would not matter. Loss of receiver data for 20 seconds is RAP failsafe initiation. It can be legit from an in-flight condition, or incorrectly intepretted from motors armed and no stick movement for 20 seconds.
In cases where throttle trim is adjusted higher than the armed idle, it can be interpreted as launch idle up has been initiated. If no stick motion sensed, it can create another condition of NAZA self launch; again RAP routine induced.
If S1 is set to Fail Safe, and it is accidentally toggled after motors have been armed, but before they are idled up, there is another NAZA self launch condition. This occurs within 7 seconds of the fail safe position being toggled. This is not a RAP auto launch; it is a Fail Safe auto launch.
In all cases, the NAZA ignores the altitude info from the GPS as well as the internal Baro sensors; and has no idea of where flight begins - even though the GPS Datastream includes ASL and height above ASL (ascent).
There are unique differences in the 3 situations of NAZA self launch loosely described above. If carbon fiber props are involved, serious lacerations can result. In all cases where motors have been armed and flight is not initiated, be very aware of the inherit danger of the NAZA Flight Controller not being able to determine where Flight begins.
There are different explanations concerning the point where pilot input will be considered, according to the initiating conditions, and source of DJI literature. It is a topic that is surrounded by gray area, poor documentation and poorer understanding ; understandingly so. This is the stuff that paradoxes are made from.
Some of these situations were reported to have been addressed by firmware updates. I haven't tried to recreate the situations to test since severely altering the emotional stability of the fanboys on another group by bringing up the subject. It is only for the benefit of the less emotionally encumbered among us that I aproach the subject again. Each can make their own interpretations of each situation as it applies to each level of firmware on each NAZA device.
Again, apologies for the different tangent..
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Since it is important people understand the workings of their Phantom... what you describe here is not RAP but simply loss of signal which will make the Phantom hover for a mere 5 seconds while flashing yellow after which it will enter Failsafe provided this isn't disabled with the Assistant software and then it will do as defined in the Assistant. Either RTH or auto land. Usually RTH will be set.Dalite said:
Big Ben said:
I stand corrected on that.
20 seconds to hover for 10 seconds, then RAP induced Failsafe, rather than the 20 seconds to RAP induced failsafe that I mentioned.
The point that often gets overlooked is that RAP is designed to stop a flyaway from what is considered to be from a rogue or nearby stronger signal. It's goal is to tell the NAZA to take a chill pill and see if the receiver overload situation is temporary or if the NAZA needs to take over and fly the craft away from the source of interference. Page 20 of the manual does little to explain the reasoning. The info there only indicates that it shouldn't enter into play in a hover situation.
With the Futaba FAAST signal processing, the chance of a commanded flyaway is fairly slim, but a nearby signal that simultaneously swamps the receiver and corrupts the GPS data could cause the NAZA to fly toward the first GPS fix on reacquisition, which is the one with the highest margin for error. Even if it waited until the 3rd fix (which would provide the minimum for a 3d fix), the position the NAZA would head for could be very far away. Add a dead Battery Backed RAM backup battery on the GPS board forcing the equivalent of a cold start to the mix, and you begin to appreciate anything that can save the NAZA from itself.
The manual on pages 15 and 20 differentiates the different fail safe modes, the timings, the windows for regaining control - and does it with the clarity of looking through mud. If there was a little more emphasis on theory of operation, rather than effect without cause. But, the discussion came as a result of unanticipated launch as a subset of Failsafe initiation as interpreted by RAP, due to a flight controller that cannot define or determine flight.... Getting into the nuances of what happens after it minces flesh of innocent bystanders is quite a bit of mission creep. Probably best that folks understand how not to become an unwilling blood donor rather than trying to sort out the varying triggers of modified failsafe operations. IIRC, the late January discussion of RAP auto launch seemed to originate from a non DJI controller having a trim applied that was interpretted as a stick not being centered. Accidentally initiating Failsafe auto launch with S1 can be achieved with a stock controller.
Again, apologies for going off the original topic, but this is a safety issue that all need to be aware of and know how to avoid it and react if it happens. Taking props off when testing is always the safest aproach.
The Editor said:
Actually, IMHO, this type of give and take yields a lot of interesting information and it's great to see experienced people with differing viewpoints on the same subject. I think both points of view have pretty compelling arguments... I wish we'd see more of this sort of thing in these forums. We can all take all of the gathered information and make an informed decision on which way to go. Nice...
-slinger
BruceTS said:
Hats off to you for going to the trouble of balancing you motors luckily my P2 motors are relatively vibration free but there is always going to be a Friday afternoon unit when mass production is involved, but as for the bearings, metal shielded bearing are classed as sealed for life, maintenance free bearings.
"Most SKF stainless steel deep groove ball bearings are available with shields. Some are also available with contact seals. Bearings with a shield or contact seal on both sides are lubricated for life and are maintenance-free. They should not be washed or heated to temperatures above 80 °C.
Bearings with shields
Bearings with shields, designation suffix 2Z (fig 1), have shields made of stainless steel. The shields form a sealing gap with the land of the bearing inner ring shoulder and enable high temperatures and speeds. Bearings fitted with shields are primarily intended for applications where the inner ring rotates. If the outer ring rotates, there is a risk of grease leaking from the bearing at elevated speeds."
(SKF bearing manufacturers since 1907)
I'll still continue to oil mine as I have done for 20+ years! (Not the same set of bearings though ! :lol: )
N017RW
Premium Pilot
The Editor said:
I see a lot of RCpros do this and that. But the question is, did your RCheli have brushless motors. If you google about brushless motors and bearings (which are sealed) you find out that theres a reason why theres no mention of oiling your bearing in DJI manuals. Brushless engines have bearings that arent supposed to be oiled at any point during their lifespan. Adding oil will spoil the greasing/oiling that is added before the bearings are sealed at the factory.
RCpro doesnt mean that your pro at maintenance of sealed bearings. RCpro doesnt mean that your good at anything that your not good at.
The Editor said:
The problem is, breaings have changed a lot during those 20+ years. Brushless engines have sealed bearings. Any company producing these bearings will say that you should not oil those bearings and you can google about this.
If someone wants to oil their sealed bearings, go ahead. But giving advice to pilots that are unaware why even DJI doesnt say you need to oil your bearings.... is just something that sucks.
If someone wants to tell others to oil their bearings, please tell that manufacturers say that you shouldnt oil your sealed bearings and the reasons why.
Carl,CarlJ said:I've seen topics where they discuss oiling them, but they only cost like 25 bucks a pop, and I already have 4 replacements on hand.
Yeah, I don't like the idea of being without my Phantom while waiting for motors to arrive. I guess that sounds pretty bad....I'm a junky
Where do you get replacement motors?
TIA,
Tom
Miika said:
ALL my helis have brushless motors (both out runner and in runner) as well as numerous bearings about the airframe on the swash, drive shafts and tail assemblies.
I have ALWAYS oiled my bearings and will continue to do so. That is my choice. What other people chose to do is up to them, I have no influence over what route they ultimately decide and I can only recount my own personal experience gained from 20 years of flying RC aircraft.
I am bored with this now so shall not comments further - everyone is grown up enough to make their own decision as I had to during the course of my hobby.
Whether you oil/lubricate or do not oil/lubricate, the most important thing is you enjoy the hobby and have fun !!
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