Insurance (UK based)

[BMEWS]

Hi, I know there's a thread mentioning insurance but would like to know what the current consensus is regarding both equipment insurance AND 3rd party liability insurance. I obviously am going to fly within the current CAA rules and don't plan on long distance out of sight (as my out of the box kit won't probably facilitate that). But I also don't want to cause anyone else any loss should the P2V decide it want's to drop out of the sky.

So, any ideas or sample policy documents?

cheers

Bmews

 

[Encantador]

I joined this.... http://www.fpvuk.org/ Don`t know much about it other than what I read on the site.
Membership includes £5 Million in public liability insurance. But like any insurance, you never know how good it is until you have to try and claim.

 

[BMEWS]

I joined this.... http://www.fpvuk.org/ Don`t know much about it other than what I read on the site.
Membership includes £5 Million in public liability insurance. But like any insurance, you never know how good it is until you have to try and claim.

cheers, I did see them mentioned elsewhere. Do they provide a sample policy document?

Bmews

 

[Pull_Up]

I'm with FPVUK.org too. The policy covers all sorts of model activities (there's a big clause about boiler explosions and sparks causing fires). The Insurer is Royal & Sun Alliance. Here's an extract of the relevant bits from my policy:

Certificate of Public Liability Insurance

Limit of Indemnity: £5000000 for any one event... Indemnity to principals is automatically provided (e.g. private landowners, host modelling...clubs or societies).
...
Model Aircraft: Cover extends to include model aircraft including those...propelled electrically...

That's about all the relevant bits for us! It also covers you if you take the aircraft to fly within Europe as well

 

[BMEWS]

I'm with FPVUK.org too. The policy covers all sorts of model activities (there's a big clause about boiler explosions and sparks causing fires). The Insurer is Royal & Sun Alliance. Here's an extract of the relevant bits from my policy:

Certificate of Public Liability Insurance

Limit of Indemnity: £5000000 for any one event... Indemnity to principals is automatically provided (e.g. private landowners, host modelling...clubs or societies).
...
Model Aircraft: Cover extends to include model aircraft including those...propelled electrically...

That's about all the relevant bits for us! It also covers you if you take the aircraft to fly within Europe as well

Cheers Simon, I'm assuming that'll cover it dropping out the sky and hitting someone's property or worse still (someone). What are most doing in relation to loss, theft, damage etc? I did see the post about protect my bubble and I note there's a few others?

Bmews

 

[Pull_Up]

I haven't got the Vision insured against damage/loss itself... If the "Protect your Bubble" price is accurate, AND they will actually pay out when someone realises what they've underwritten then it's probably very good value.

The public liability insurance covers for any claims against you for damages caused by your flying activity - personal injury, property damage, etc.

 

[BMEWS]

Cheers Simon,

I've put the question to protect your bubble so let's see what they come back with. I did check the BMFA and they do have insurance options (not sure whether they are in addition to the membership pricing). However, it would appear that the policy whilst protecting against loss, damage, theft etc. is only whilst in storage or transit and NOT in use. So wouldn't protect if the P2V plopped into the oggin (let's see google translate that one )

Appreciate the responses. Think it's pretty important to protect an investment of this size and more so to protect others from an inadvertent power loss (since reading the threads about solder and cable durability - eeek!)

Cheers


Bmews

 

[Pull_Up]

I agree about the latter. For just a few quid a year to protect yourself against potentially being sued out of house and home it's a no-brainer. It also helps a lot if approaching landowners for permission to fly on their land - especially as the FPVUK insurance would cover them, too. For example I asked for and got permission from my town council to fly in one of their parks which is bigger than 150m (so legal in terms of the flying over or near congested areas rule) but close to the centre of town so enabling me to get some unique shots. I included my certificate of insurance and a simple one page risk assessment when asking and they were happy to say yes (and the Town Clerk is now seriously considering buying a Vision having seen mine!) and I now have permission to fly somewhere no one else does.

As regards covering my losses... well I've made peace with the fact that if I'm putting something in the air via remote control there is always a chance of something going wrong and it ending up in pieces. I think if you're not prepared for that to happen then this possibly isn't the right hobby! Having said that if the "Bubble" policy is definitely going to cover it then that's a tempting policy at that price point...

 

[BMEWS]

I'll let you know how I get on.

if anyone else has alternatives, i'm more than happy to investigate.

cheers

Bmews

 

[arnonel]

Are there other UK options?

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[BMEWS]

There are two potential insurers. Common advice is to ensure you have public liability insurance. This will protect against 3rd party losses, should you have some sort of failure which, results in damage. BMFA cover up to £25M for £32.00 per year. This includes membership of BMFA. The insurance policy will NOT protect against damage incurred in flight. It will protect you against loss due to theft or accident whilst in storage or transportation, but equally, your household contents insurance MAY cover you too.

The alternative for 3rd party liability cover is FPVUK which has similar 3rd party liability cover to the value of £5M for approx. £15.00 per year.

Protectyourbubble.com will NOT insure a quadcopter for accidental damage during flight. I didn't progress any further with them after talking with them on the phone.

Gadget-cover.com say they will protect against breakdown. Their policy is around about £100 per year with a £50.00 excess. I specifically asked whether they would insure against a replacement which broke down during flight (engine failure etc). The agent (note, NOT the actual insurer) stated that he thought the P2V would be covered as it suffered a breakdown during normal usage. The analogy he used was that it was similar to a mobile phone breaking down during a call. And whilst this would seem logical, one would have to get specific guidance from the actual insurer whether this indeed would be the case.

That said, if you read the sample policy there is a specific clause which falls within the items NOT covered, mentioning "12. Any loss or damage caused by the failure of any electrical or computer equipment, software, micro-controller, microchip, accessories or associated equipment to correctly recognise and process any calendar date or time."

Again, a lot of this is down to interpretation and wiggle-room on behalf of the insurer. Ultimately, as it's been stated elsewhere. You pays your money and you takes your chance. The 3rd party liability insurance is a no-brainer. It then falls to whether you want to risk £100 and fight the battle if something happens. As with everything, make sure you keep your receipts and that you FULLY read and understand the insurance policy. If you don't understand something, ask them for clarification.

hope this helps

Bmews

 

[arnonel]

Thanks for the detailed explanation. That helps alot.

The reason I asked was because someone in another thread mentioned other companies (with glossy magazines) that did insurance, so was keen to know what they are (wouldnt mind a magazine )

 

[BMEWS]

Thanks for the detailed explanation. That helps alot.

The reason I asked was because someone in another thread mentioned other companies (with glossy magazines) that did insurance, so was keen to know what they are (wouldnt mind a magazine )

No idea who they could be. If you find em let me know and i'll have a poke around

bmews

 

[Pull_Up]

I believe the "glossy magazine" was referring to the membership mag you get with your BMFA subscription, which will cover all aspects of their members' flying.

 

[pault]

.....
That said, if you read the sample policy there is a specific clause which falls within the items NOT covered, mentioning "12. Any loss or damage caused by the failure of any electrical or computer equipment, software, micro-controller, microchip, accessories or associated equipment to correctly recognise and process any calendar date or time."
.....

This reads like it was a left over from the days of the millennium bug

Edit: btw, another happy user of FPVUK - we do not get any flashy mags, in fact we do not get anything at all apart from a great price !

 

[Bunyarra]

I have also put a question into my professional camera insurer - see what restrictions they will have on adding the P2V to the policy. I already have a huge public liability one for normal photography so asked if non-pro use of P2V can be included for both liability and breakage.

Wait and see

 

[Meluk]

I really doubt any insurer is going to pay anything out, for the policy holder or 3rd party.

One is claiming they will cover 3rd party upto 5million pounds for £15 a year? Id like to see that happen in the real world. It's just too much of a grey area in my opinion. In regards to the insurance but more so in the legalities of flying our Phantoms.

Give me an actual case where an insurer has paid out a substantial amount then I'll change my opinion.


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[pault]

I really doubt any insurer is going to pay anything out, for the insurer or 3rd party.

One is claiming they will cover 3rd party upto 5million pounds for £15 a year? Id like to see that happen in the real world. It's just too much of a grey area in my opinion. In regards to the insurance but more so in the legalities of flying our Phantoms.

Give me an actual case where an insurer has paid out a substantial amount then I'll change my opinion.


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As Pull_Up mentioned earlier in the thread there are really very few exclusions when it comes to r/c aircraft in the FPVUK policy. I reckon if you pranged anything and did damage the insurer would be hard pressed to wriggle out of any claim.

 

[Pull_Up]

It's a catch-all modelling insurance policy sold through model and engineering clubs of all sorts. The premium is low because the risk is low and the pool of premium payers relatively large (ride-on model railways, model traction engines, static steam models, traditional RC aircraft, etc). As long as you are not flying anything jet powered there are no grounds for refusing a claim.

I seem to remember Simon the chair of FPVUK did mention on a forum post of theirs somewhere that they had had 2 claims against the policy and both were paid without issue.

It's Royal & Sun Alliance, I suspect their actuaries know a thing or two about risk pricing

 

[pault]

.....

I seem to remember Simon the chair of FPVUK did mention on a forum post of theirs somewhere that they had had 2 claims against the policy and both were paid without issue.

.....

Simon, do you have a link to their forum ? (I have had a quick look at the FPVUK site and cannot see anything)