I finally lost my Phantom - not a "flyaway"

[Gnormand]

there are a lot of class d airspace warnings, looking at the KML you appear to have flown over then past a tall building, past what appear to be 2 microwave antennas.

Don't know why that airspace warning popped up...flown there many times, never got a warning....and on my Before you Fly app and the DJI app, doesn't show a problem.
The microwave antennas have never interfered in prior flights in exact same location.

 

[GFields]

I never fly if the wind is over 10 mph. But, that's just my rule of thumb. I've read about several crashes or situations like this due to strong headwind so the way I see it, why take the chance. There are several apps you can get to get wind speed, wind direction and so forth. I check this before I ever leave the house.


Sent from my iPad using PhantomPilots

 

[Meta4]

to the person running this forum who changed my title....I've read all the highly technical posts regarding charging and discharging, and how many cycles, etc...
this was a relatively new battery with 24 cycles......please tell me what YOU would have done in the same situation that would have resulted in a better outcome.

I didn't write anything about battery charging. It might be of some academic interest but is irrelevant to the loss of your Phantom in this case.
If you read my post #13 earlier on you might understand what the issues were.
I'll try to spell it out in more detail for you.

1. Yes, I was high...but no higher than I've done in that location several times before-my quest was to get the perfect shot of the sun rising behind this tall building.
2. Yes, the wind was high...but no higher than I've flown easily in before.

Wind blows at different speeds and directions from day to day.
Wind speeds are considerably higher at 600 feet than they are on the ground.
That your Phantom was still being blown backwards when you tried to drive it at full speed against the wind indicates that you had not easily flown in this kind of wind before.
At 6:36 you pushed the right stick forward for 20 seconds and your Phantom still kept going backwards although it's speed slowed to 3 mph
The wind speed up there was very strong.

OK guys-I posted the original thread . I'm trying to figure out what I could have done differently, so this doesn't happen again.
3. The way I see it-when I got to altitude, and as I was changing settings on the camera, I noticed the bird moving North with the wind...I DID NOT send it that direction..apparently,
some sensor in the aircraft saw a 0.1 to 0.2 volt discrepancy between cells-and must have cut power to the motors. That is the problem...a bird going 5-7 mph is not gonna overcome
a wind of 20+ mph....but HOW was I supposed to know the cell was going to drop voltage at that time and that altitude? I looked at the DJI go app...the voltages looked good, and there
was not a warning until it was too late.

Your battery was quite low when you launched but this had nothing to do with losing your Phantom, which was 100% about the wind and height.
Don't be distracted by the battery discussion.
What happened is that as you climbed the higher you went, the stronger the wind was.
At 400 feet the wind was just beginning to be more than the Phantom was able to hold position in.
But you climbed higher .. and higher and the Phantom was not able to maintain position.
It tried and was working its little heart out but the wind kept pushing it backwards.

(If you want to talk batteries, you had warnings at 0:50 and 3:23 to tell you the battery was quite sick but that is completely unrelated to the loss of your Phantom)

OK guys-I posted the original thread . I'm trying to figure out what I could have done differently, so this doesn't happen again.
4. The aircraft going behind the other tall buildings was not my instruction...it did it because the "smart" sensors in the bird reduced power...thereby creating a situation where
I couldn't bring it home.

This is 100% wrong. The Phantom ended up nearly a mile away because you didn't do anything to stop it being blown away.

5. When an aircraft is no longer in control by the pilot (me) who is trying to bring it back, and it is not doing as instructed-it is a flyaway....what else could it be? It's gone...

This is not a case of a Phantom flying away. This is why I changed the thread title - so people don't get the idea that their Phantom will just fly away.
People lose Phantoms all the time but almost never because the Phantom flies away.
Investigation of the flight data almost always proves user error is the cause - just like this case.
You had full control at all times and your Phantom responded properly to all your control inputs but you had no situational awareness and not enough experience to realise what was happening or take appropriate action to prevent it.
You put your Phantom up in a high wind, didn't notice it drifting and left it up there fighting the wind even after you realised you had a problem.

OK guys-I posted the original thread . I'm trying to figure out what I could have done differently, so this doesn't happen again.

You could have:

1. made sure your battery was fully charged before flying - but that wouldn't have made any difference in this case
2. been aware of wind strength and direction
3. been aware that wind aloft would have been stronger than on the ground
4. seen that your Phantom couldn't hold position above 400 ft
5. seen that the Phantom drifted faster when you climbed higher
6. brought your Phantom down where the wind was not so strong and brought it back.​

But you did none of those and let your Phantom just blow away

And just to make this quite clear ...
This is not a case of a flyaway, it is 100% user error and was 100% preventable.

If this forum supports behaviour from there mods like that what's the point of waisting my time.

And that Tomtopping, is why I changed the thread title.

 

[Meta4]

So Gnormands battery is cactus after 24 cycles

Do we know that for sure?
The only evidence we have is that he launched with a battery that was showing 91% and as he climbed, voltage sank very quickly to13.2V.
That just looks like he had left the battery lying around for a week and it had started to discharge.

 

[Quamera]

Do we know that for sure?
The only evidence we have is that he launched with a battery that was showing 91% and as he climbed, voltage sank very quickly to13.2V.
That just looks like he had left the battery lying around for a week and it had started to discharge.

My P4 manual says if the battery is left charged for more than 10 days it will auto discharge to below 65% over 2 days. I'm sure the P3 would be similar. If the battery is turned on after the discharge has started I expect it would stop discharging or maybe it won't even turn on, either way when the operator picks up the battery it will feel quite warm from the discharge process and that would be irrefutable evidence that it shouldn't be put in the Phantom.

Although Gnormand may like to confirm it I would like to assume that the auto discharge process hadn't started although obviously a few days had passed since the battery was charged for it to drift down to the low 90s % unless it was taken off the charger early to prolong its life!!! (Whoops, was I suggesting that) Even so a relatively new battery should have all 4 cells discharging at the same (or close to the same) rate but that didn't happen here. During the ascent, at near maximum power the voltage on the first cell dropped much faster than the others and triggered the battery protection algorithm so that weaker cell wouldn't fail with catastrophic consequences for the Phantom.

Your battery was quite low when you launched but this had nothing to do with losing your Phantom, which was 100% about the wind and height

I would respectfully suggest that the battery going to reduced power has to at least take some small portion of the blame for losing the Phantom. A relatively young battery starting at 91% shouldn't become a crippled liability that quickly. At the very least a battery producing reasonable power would have bought some time and just maybe the pilot would have realized the peril his craft was in and bought it down a few hundred feet to a less precarious position before the situation became critical and subsequently past the point of no return.

 

[GFields]

A man who had been told by his doctor that he was a diabetic and prescribed medication for him to take, yet the man refused to take the prescribed medicine. A couple years pass and he returns to the doctor complaining that he was having problems seeing, that he thought he may be going blind! The doctor examined him and discovered that his blood sugars have been running extremely high. He asked the man had he been taking the medicine. Sadly, he had to confess that he had not. He hoped he could find a way to blame the doctor. He hoped to find a way to blame his wife. But there were no one to blame but himself.

Having to swallow that bitter pill of “it was my fault” is not easy to do.

I know things happen. But, if one takes the time to 1. Read the Phantom Manual, 2. Look at weather conditions (including temp and wind speed), 3. Do proper pre-flight inspections, 4. Do proper maintenance on the equipment (take the medicine), all this is designed to prevent or help prevent such a loss.

There are many types of doctors. Those who “sugar coat” the situation and others that tell it point blank like it is! Meta4 is the latter. Yet, he is absolutely correct in his assessment and prognosis.

I tip my hat to all who post here so every pilot can learn along with those who suffered their loss.

 

[JB63]

And just to make this quite clear ...
This is not a case of a flyaway, it is 100% user error and was 100% preventable.

And that Tomtopping, is why I changed the thread title.

Technically it is a fly away just by user error so you didn't have to change the tittle.I think you were just being ignorant and being the bully of the group.You made some very valid points to him as probably prevented this from happening again cuz he will remember your advice. But you took it farther then it needed to also abused your power to bully this guy so everyone could see.GREAT JOB

Not to take sides here, but it seems we need to agree on terminology. My understanding is:

Fly-away = drone has a mind of its own
everything else = user error

We can't have it both ways. It'd either pilot error or faulty equipment. ... Well, then there are weather aspects (high wind) but here again, it's back to user error, as HE is the one responsible to ensuring the weather conditions are ok to fly his bird.

What are we missing?

PS. Fully agree with the thread title change - This was not done to blame anyone, this was more to provide an honest service (free) to the large/growing community.

 

[bbfpv]

Ah yes, ye old fly-away debate. Haven't seen one of these since .... about .... this time last year.

 

[msinger]

PS. Fully agree with msinger for changing the thread title

I cannot take credit for that one. I'm not able to edit thread titles.

 

[eatpasta]

I still don't understand how it was your call To change it just cuz you personally didn't like it. I understand your the boss I get it just thought a man in your position and power over the forum shouldn't do something like that but that's just me .Anyway this is my first day as a member but not my first day reading here.I have been reading here for a while.and will continue to be. Reading here.I just needed to voice my opinion about this

Where it may not have been the nicest thing in the world, the thread title change is factual.

He didn't change it to 'douche pilot pees on phantom and lights it on fire' - that doesnt even make any sense.

Tons of people use this site to learn and for research and I agree that it does a disservice to everyone if things aren't factual.

the OP started the thread so that he could learn what went wrong and get some help. As a result we all can learn what went wrong and be a little wiser about when we go flying.

I have already learned a bunch in reading this thread and will reread it to make mental notes, so thanks for all the members who have pitched in.

Little things like @Quamera suggesting flicking into Att mode to see what the prevailing winds are doing and letting it drift a little, that's something I never would have thought of due to inexperience. It's nice to learn from someone with experience.

I feel terrible for the OP but I have a feeling he won't make the same mistake twice.

 

[JB63]

↑
PS. Fully agree with msinger for changing the thread title

I cannot take credit for that one. I'm not able to edit thread titles.

LOL, sorry, I was reading two threads at the same time

 

[eatpasta]

Technically it is a fly away just by user error so you didn't have to change the tittle.I think you were just being ignorant and being the bully of the group.You made some very valid points to him as probably prevented this from happening again cuz he will remember your advice. But you took it farther then it needed to also abused your power to bully this guy so everyone could see.GREAT JOB

you make friends fast!



and as far as I understand it, a 'flyaway' is when the bird just takes off on its own and doesnt respond to any inputs which as we can clearly see is not the case here

 

[jbrown630]

Athough the horse appears to be dead I'd like to smack it myself. I absolutely agree that the title change was necessary.

As others have pointed out, many out there are very apprehensive about deploying their birds at any reasonable distance for fear of these rampant "Flyaways". Every additional post claiming their bird flew away only makes that issue worse. The drone did not fly off under its own power whilst ignoring all user inputs. THAT is a flyaway. As to the predicament the OP has found himself in, I was in a similar situation myself the other day. I put my bird up in a windy situation, and noticed it was fighting allot to hold position and even failing to do so from time to time, drifting away from my intended vantage point for filming. My choice was to bring her down and return another day, rather than risk the bird, which incidentally was just replaced by DJI due to a bad motor.

 

[jbrown630]

Some users just browsing may see those threads but not read them and never learn that it was user error.... I also wouldn't expect the mods to change every thread title..... I also can't speak to the mods decision to change this one.

 

[eatpasta]

LOL, my apologies guys. I just didn't feel it was done in a good manner I felt the title change was sarcastic and a direct insult to the guy. I'm not debating it wasn't user error or that meta4 didn't make a very valid statement of what went wrong .My issue was with the title change and how it was gone about.Meta4 being an MOD and all

If you're a member on a 'TON' of other forums than you should know that this is not our sandbox and we both have quite a lot to learn.

This forum is a free resource of nearly unlimited info from enthusiastic members, that want to help noobs like you and me.

Who cares if they change the title of a thread?

 

[JB63]

I honestly do not see the big fuss about the title change. The mod is simply doing his job. I take part in other forums (many to list) and it is common practice that the mods do modify thread titles to something often more useful.


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[eatpasta]

I also see a few other flyaway posts on this forum proved to be user error and those titles have not been changed
I'm not saying.....



I'm just saying.....

I'm guessing the Great White North is a little whiter than usual and you're stuck inside.

May I suggest getting one of these to pass the time?

 

[dirkclod]

Guys I just cleaned some of this up as it had done got Off topic .
Please lets stay on the OP or don't post and I would hope some would read our guidelines here Community Guidelines
Thanks

 

[Tomtopping]

I would hope some would read our guidelines here Community Guidelines
Thanks

My bad sorry

 

[Quamera]

Not to take sides here, but it seems we need to agree on terminology. My understanding is:

Fly-away = drove has a mind of its own
everything else = user error

We can't have it both ways. It'd either pilot error or faulty equipment. ... Well, then there are weather aspects (high wind) but here again, it's back to user error, as HE is the one responsible to ensuring the weather conditions are ok to fly his bird.

What are we missing?

PS. Fully agree with the thread title change - This was not done to blame anyone, this was more to provide an honest service (free) to the large/growing community.

Agree with most points but not "either pilot error or faulty equipment" in can be both and in this case as noted in post #50 IMHO the battery has to take at least a small portion of the blame because it reduced the time the OP had to work out the situation. Its a bit like "Air Crash Investigations", very rarely can an aircraft accident be blamed on one cause, it is usually a combination of things that become overwhelming at the time although in hindsight a solution could have been found.

@Gnormand , my admiration to you for coming on here and taking a few hits, some of them could have been worded a little better but to your credit you stayed on the thread and clarified some unclear points and in the process we have all learnt some valuable lessons.