Harvey Drone Warning from FAA

[David Cooke]

In Canada Search and Rescue Support is only done under and SFOC (Special Flight Operations Certificate) . . . and even the Mounties and the Police need one if they are operating a drone. You can get an SFOC for recreational flying but it wont cover "Aid to Civil Power" . . that needs to be specifically called out in your SFOC

 

[jofus]

I was actually just wondering if there was any need for volunteers with sUAS to aid in search and rescue, maybe help canvas a few areas. Not sure where I would be able to find that out if there is such a need.

 

[YogiFlyer]

I was actually just wondering if there was any need for volunteers with sUAS to aid in search and rescue, maybe help canvas a few areas. Not sure where I would be able to find that out if there is such a need.

If they do, you should coordinate with the local police or emergency services department. They have put quite a few TFRs in place as well, so coordination is absolutely required. I'm sure people flying those things around right now have no clue about airspace or what is going on. They are just doing it to be first.

 

[BigAl07]

Here is an exact quote from a high ranking official with NASAR, the National Association for Search & Rescue:

"The answer is that SAR is a profession rather than a hobby. Everyone doing SAR, be it mounted, management, swiftwater, ATV, or UAV, is first and foremost a professional SAR responder.

Put the other way, SAR is not a hobby and flying for SAR is not a hobby activity."

 

[YogiFlyer]

Here is an exact quote from a high ranking official with NASAR, the National Association for Search & Rescue:

"The answer is that SAR is a profession rather than a hobby. Everyone doing SAR, be it mounted, management, swiftwater, ATV, or UAV, is first and foremost a professional SAR responder.

Put the other way, SAR is not a hobby and flying for SAR is not a hobby activity."

True story. Civil Air Patrol has waivers from the FAA allowing private pilots to fly SAR missions. The reason they had to get this waiver is because private pilots are required to pay their equal portion of the cost of a flight and cannot accept any consideration for a flight by regulation. By flying for CAP as a private pilot, you are not having to pay anything out of pocket and you can log flight hours as PIC. Both of which are prohibited normally if you are not paying an equal cost. The FAA will apply the same concept to SAR with UAVs. Get your Part 107 license and be done with it!

 

[jofus]

If they do, you should coordinate with the local police or emergency services department. They have put quite a few TFRs in place as well, so coordination is absolutely required. I'm sure people flying those things around right now have no clue about airspace or what is going on. They are just doing it to be first.

Absolutely. I would not just go out on my own with no coordination with local or federal authorities. I was just curious to see if any organization has put out any requests.

 

[BigAl07]

Absolutely. I would not just go out on my own with no coordination with local or federal authorities. I was just curious to see if any organization has put out any requests.

Your desire and request is very commendable to say the least. I wish more people had this attitude instead of "I'll go fly it ... I'm sure I'll find something/someone and be a hero for it".

Unfortunately, at this stage of the game, the problem is an abundance of "Self Dispatching" in the area. We have several State TF1 and TF2 crews from all over the country in route with UAS on hand. Until things calm down these are the only people that will be allowed into these areas period. Keep in mind they are currently using boats to get into the areas and the water is now considered TOXIC/Dangerous so wading is not an option.

 

[QuadKid]

ANYTHING that is outside of Hobby/Recreational flights must be conducted under either a Public Use COA or Part 107

Yup and this is what it looks like

 

[sar104]

You are emphatically incorrect and it sounds like your attorney friend needs to contact the FSDO and get some clarification.

No portion of Search & Rescue is consider Recreational. Not now nor has it ever been. Go to some of the SAR groups and see how upset they are because SAR requires Part 107. ANYTHING that is outside of Hobby/Recreational flights must be conducted under either a Public Use COA or Part 107. There is no "Grey Area" here and it's only going to get worse with literally hundreds if not thousands of "Self Dispatch" UAS operators hitting the skies.

Search & Rescue is considered a CIVIL flight and as such requires COA or Part 107 to be legal. If your attorney tells you otherwise and you abide by it, you'd better make sure both have some deep pockets and can afford the hassle it can bring to the table.

I'll add my agreement here too - the FAA has made it perfectly clear, in the specific use case of SAR, that it is unambiguously not recreational. It falls under Part 107 or COA. The attorney was mistaken.

 

[sar104]

Yup and this is what it looks like

Mine doesn't have those strange white things.

 

[QuadKid]

Mine doesn't have those strange white things.

Back in the day we called it white out, classified information (Please no Leakers !!)

 

[FatherXmas]

I was actually just wondering if there was any need for volunteers with sUAS to aid in search and rescue, maybe help canvas a few areas. Not sure where I would be able to find that out if there is such a need.

In rural Alabama the majority of search & rescue, fire departments and medical responders are 100% volunteer. We are dispatched by the 911 dispatcher and work closely with both the state and county EMA.
This past weekend at the state association quarterly meeting, the state EMA director in his speech, applauded the squads who had sUAVs available and encouraged all squads to get involved.

 

[David Cooke]

In rural Alabama the majority of search & rescue, fire departments and medical responders are 100% volunteer. We are dispatched by the 911 dispatcher and work closely with both the state and county EMA.
This past weekend at the state association quarterly meeting, the state EMA director in his speech, applauded the squads who had sUAVs available and encouraged all squads to get involved.

That's the way it SHOULD work . . . but it will be an interesting conversation with the FAA . . or Transport Canada.

 

[FatherXmas]

Yes, because a search and rescue mission can be conducted under a COA, and many times is. I hope this same attorney plans to defend you when the FAA comes calling. Your question means nothing, by the way as you provide no FAA documentation to support your position.

The attorney is on staff at a nationally know aviation company. I trust his opinion more than a bunch of guys on a forum. Besides, why in the world would the FAA come after a very small rural rescue squad that can barely afford gas for the truck and provides many valuable services to the community? So, would you please get off your high horse and drop it, we will continue to serve our community the best we can.

 

[sar104]

In rural Alabama the majority of search & rescue, fire departments and medical responders are 100% volunteer. We are dispatched by the 911 dispatcher and work closely with both the state and county EMA.
This past weekend at the state association quarterly meeting, the state EMA director in his speech, applauded the squads who had sUAVs available and encouraged all squads to get involved.

It's not an issue of volunteer or not volunteer, it's and issue of recreational or non-recreational. All the official SAR personnel in New Mexico are volunteer - that makes no difference.

 

[sar104]

The attorney is on staff at a nationally know aviation company. I trust his opinion more than a bunch of guys on a forum. Besides, why in the world would the FAA come after a very small rural rescue squad that can barely afford gas for the truck and provides many valuable services to the community? So, would you please get off your high horse and drop it, we will continue to serve our community the best we can.

No one is asking you to trust their opinion - we are suggesting that you need to double-check your attorney's opinion. As to why we would suggest that - I know that @BigAl07 is actively involved in search and rescue, and I'm a New Mexico State SAR Type 1 Incident Commander so I have personally dealt with this issue. As for why the FAA would pursue that is a fine question - you would need to ask them. I can say that there have been documented cases where the FAA did take exactly that action against SAR volunteers. But you should proceed as you see fit.

 

[BigAl07]

The attorney is on staff at a nationally know aviation company. I trust his opinion more than a bunch of guys on a forum. Besides, why in the world would the FAA come after a very small rural rescue squad that can barely afford gas for the truck and provides many valuable services to the community? So, would you please get off your high horse and drop it, we will continue to serve our community the best we can.

Your attorney friend is in for a HUGE reality check at some point in the future. By all means call your FSDO and get the official word. It's obvious you have made your mind up and it's useless for us to go any deeper trying to change your mind.

I can 100% assure you it's not a High Horse issue but trying to keep people safe and out of the spotlight of the FAA. I can tell you this much... if you follow my advice you only have to take a short test and get a piece of plastic and no future legal actions will come against you. If you go against it you put yourself and your dept/division at risk. Whatever you do is entirely up to you and your agency but I can assure you being a renegade is not the way to set up a successful and long-term UAS Division for your agency.

Some of us do this on a National level and I can promise you getting the required licenses etc to do this legally was not easy nor cheap before Part 107 came into play but we still paid and did it as the law requires.

Do as you wish but do so with a better attitude as we are only trying to help and educate to the best of our ability.

 

[David Cooke]

[emoji106][emoji106]

 

[YogiFlyer]

The attorney is on staff at a nationally know aviation company. I trust his opinion more than a bunch of guys on a forum. Besides, why in the world would the FAA come after a very small rural rescue squad that can barely afford gas for the truck and provides many valuable services to the community? So, would you please get off your high horse and drop it, we will continue to serve our community the best we can.

Have your attorney click that link I posted previously. Perhaps directly from the FAA will make a difference? We are just trying to educate people, not keep them from doing what we all enjoy doing. But don't believe for a second that the FAA will simply ignore you because you are in a remote location, because you are a volunteer, or because you can barely afford gas for your truck. For every 100 attorneys you ask, you will get 100 opinions.

Your local FSDO contact information is located at the following link on the FAA website:

Flight Standards District Offices (FSDO) – Alabama

I would encourage you to contact THEM! The only opinion that will ever matter is their opinion.

 

[FatherXmas]

Have your attorney click that link I posted previously. Perhaps directly from the FAA will make a difference? We are just trying to educate people, not keep them from doing what we all enjoy doing. But don't believe for a second that the FAA will simply ignore you because you are in a remote location, because you are a volunteer, or because you can barely afford gas for your truck. For every 100 attorneys you ask, you will get 100 opinions.

Your local FSDO contact information is located at the following link on the FAA website:

Flight Standards District Offices (FSDO) – Alabama

I would encourage you to contact THEM! The only opinion that will ever matter is their opinion.

I guess I owe some folks an apology. I emailed the FAA, I was really shocked, someone actually called me on my cellphone about 2 minutes after I hit send. Long story short, never trust free advice. So it looks like I'm the only person on the squad that can fly - going to be several folks extremely disappointed.