Flying a golf course tomorrow.

[Russ43Phantom]

It sounds like you want some practice. I’m sure there’s a learning curve and if you take a video of the course once, and then take it again and again, your skill set will improve. So why not go ahead and take this one as practice and if for any reason others want you to take one for their use, for example the golf course superintendent, go ahead and do it again. The second time around can only be better.

 

[FL_Mike]

In your studies to get your 107 certificate, I think you will find that everything is not as black and white as everyone would lead you to believe. There are huge gray areas in the current regulation system. Currently, anyone can fly as a hobbyist, as long as they have no true intent, at the time of the flight, of anything other than recreation, and later sell those images and video to their heart's content! Many mistakenly believe that they cannot ever sell any drone images or video taken recreationally, unless they had a 107 at the time, or unless they first obtain a 107 before they sell them. They can! Establishing your true intent at the time of the flight is the crux of the issue. The burden of proof is not on you, if you state it is strictly recreational. The burden is on the FAA to establish by the totality of all the circumstances (before, during, and after the flight) that your true intent at the time of the flight was actually commercial and not recreational for there to be a problem. If they can meet that burden, then your recreational claim is no longer credible. Just be totally honest with yourself beforehand, and then let your conscience be your guide, and enjoy your recreational flight!

I'm learning quickly that the rules are very broad and poorly defined. I'm at ease now with the situation and everyone knows what is allowed and not allowed based on current circumstances.

Now I just need the weather to cooperate when I have time to get up there and fly!

 

[FL_Mike]

It sounds like you want some practice. I’m sure there’s a learning curve and if you take a video of the course once, and then take it again and again, your skill set will improve. So why not go ahead and take this one as practice and if for any reason others want you to take one for their use, for example the golf course superintendent, go ahead and do it again. The second time around can only be better.

I foresee spending a lot of the summer there flying and reflying the same holes. It should be an awesome place to learn how to shoot dramatic video.

 

[FL_Mike]

Getting a 107 isn't that difficult and this would ve wery worthwhile for you. Would definately cover any expenses involved. I would delay it while you are getting your paperwork invovled.

Also when you are doing is setting a terrible precedent for this person. You are devaluing your skills and abilities. To him now you flying over his place is a nothing, it will make it very difficult to charge what you are worth later.

Interesting perspective. I just looked up testing facilities and I have 2 within 30 minutes. This week (vacation ends today) I'll start actually studying.

Getting a thin nickle out of this course would be a real challenge. I know everyone there, I know what they put value on and what they blow off even though it is vital. Without disparaging them anymore I honestly see this as personal training.

Now, with that said, golf is a tightnit community, at least at the management level. Everyone knows everyone. This will develop my personal skills, not be available for commercial use, and later once licensed my friend will be more than happy to get me face to face time with people that can pay.

For now, I just want to go fly. My skill level is novice and I'm not ready for paid work anyway. This will give me a venue to gain the skills I need.

Can you imagine walking onto a course and having management just throw you the keys to a work cart (much faster than a players cart) and hearing "go have fun?" It's an opportunity I cant pass up. I knew sweating my butt off 50+ hours a week would pay off eventually, I just didn'tt expect it in this manner.

 

[GadgetGuy]

Interesting perspective. I just looked up testing facilities and I have 2 within 30 minutes. This week (vacation ends today) I'll start actually studying.

Getting a thin nickle out of this course would be a real challenge. I know everyone there, I know what they put value on and what they blow off even though it is vital. Without disparaging them anymore I honestly see this as personal training.

Now, with that said, golf is a tightnit community, at least at the management level. Everyone knows everyone. This will develop my personal skills, not be available for commercial use, and later once licensed my friend will be more than happy to get me face to face time with people that can pay.

For now, I just want to go fly. My skill level is novice and I'm not ready for paid work anyway. This will give me a venue to gain the skills I need.

Can you imagine walking onto a course and having management just throw you the keys to a work cart (much faster than a players cart) and hearing "go have fun?" It's an opportunity I cant pass up. I knew sweating my butt off 50+ hours a week would pay off eventually, I just didn'tt expect it in this manner.

Awesome!

 

[SeanMulkerrin]

Interesting perspective. I just looked up testing facilities and I have 2 within 30 minutes. This week (vacation ends today) I'll start actually studying.

Getting a thin nickle out of this course would be a real challenge. I know everyone there, I know what they put value on and what they blow off even though it is vital. Without disparaging them anymore I honestly see this as personal training.

Now, with that said, golf is a tightnit community, at least at the management level. Everyone knows everyone. This will develop my personal skills, not be available for commercial use, and later once licensed my friend will be more than happy to get me face to face time with people that can pay.

For now, I just want to go fly. My skill level is novice and I'm not ready for paid work anyway. This will give me a venue to gain the skills I need.

Can you imagine walking onto a course and having management just throw you the keys to a work cart (much faster than a players cart) and hearing "go have fun?" It's an opportunity I cant pass up. I knew sweating my butt off 50+ hours a week would pay off eventually, I just didn'tt expect it in this manner.

I've been working for myself for a long time, and what you just described sounds like not the best way to go. With friends and ex-coworkers especially its very easy to fall into them not putting a value on your work and taking advantage of your time and skills without even meaning to. Go Have fun is great, but the reason I work for myself is to go have fun and get paid for it. I hope it all works out and you get a lot of referrals from this.

 

[dansoto]

Loophole?

I'm curious if this might be a legal loophole.

Videos: Take two passes of the areas you'd like to show him.
Pictures: Take two pictures of each you'd like to show.

The key is that each copy will be slightly different. Video will obviously be different and still images require just a slight movement between each.
Watermark each copy you want to give out/post for your protection. Then, when you get your 107, sell *your* copy which is, technically, not the same one you've given out.

Caveat:
I haven't thought this completely out, but it's something I just thought of quickly. Any and all input is greatly appreciated.

 

[N017RW]

I suppose you could convince yourself of anything.

You’re not likely to get caught but if you did then you’ll have to convince others.

If the ‘customer’ is using the images to further their commerce now you’ve dragged them into your problem as well.

 

[dansoto]

I suppose you could convince yourself of anything.

You’re not likely to get caught but if you did then you’ll have to convince others.

If the ‘customer’ is using the images to further their commerce now you’ve dragged them into your problem as well.

Was this response meant for me or the OP?

 

[N017RW]

Anyone.

Flying for fun or commerce is the intent of a flight at time of take-off.


However.... say your flying for fun, capture images, and later find a customer, then I guess that could be called a loophole but you still must hold a 107 to be legally operating.

This is not legal advice but is the consensus here including currently working drone operators.

 

[Russ43Phantom]

Loophole?

I'm curious if this might be a legal loophole.

Videos: Take two passes of the areas you'd like to show him.
Pictures: Take two pictures of each you'd like to show.

The key is that each copy will be slightly different. Video will obviously be different and still images require just a slight movement between each.
Watermark each copy you want to give out/post for your protection. Then, when you get your 107, sell *your* copy which is, technically, not the same one you've given out.

Caveat:
I haven't thought this completely out, but it's something I just thought of quickly. Any and all input is greatly appreciated.

Forget loopholes or work-arounds and stay within the "spirit" of the law.

 

[BigAl07]

Let me point out the "problem" with your thought process. In order to fly under the "protection" of hobby/336 (as of today May 17th, 2018) you must be flying for your own hobby/recreation. You can not Hobby/Recreate "for" someone else. The very moment you pierce the hobby protective bubble you are held to the laws of Part 107 even if you don't hold a Part 107.

I'll highlight the "catch" below in your statement:

Videos: Take two passes of the areas you'd like to show him.
Pictures: Take two pictures of each you'd like to show.

It boils down to the INTENT of the flight in question. Your INTENT is to capture data to later "potentially" transfer to another person (most likely for financial gain but that's really irrelevant here). Well outside of HOBBY therefore Part 107 very much required.

Like already stated above you'll probably never get caught but if you do you'll have a tough time explaining how you took hobby images and "coincidentally" sold them to the client and even more so after posting your "thought process" on the internet.

It just seems like it would be a LOT easier to get your Part 107 and fly legally and not worry about the loopholes etc. It's not hard and it's only $150. If you're good at what you do you can make double or triple that in the first morning of work.