Flight Around Parasailers

[Flying Squirrel]

Hey everyone!

So, I have an interesting situation to discuss. The premise of the situation involves whether parasailers and hang gliders have equal right of way to drones. I get a shoot request in an area where airmap, before you fly, and another map I check all say that I am good to go to fly my drone. I get to the location and there are parasailers and hang gliders taking off from the top of a hill nearby. The hill was over 1000 feet away and I never went closer than 1000 feet to them because they were there. They were also 300 feet plus in the air so I didnt fly above 150 feet just in case.

My question is would I have been able to? I kept the drone within VLOS the entire time so none of them were in danger of me hitting them. I was just afraid of someone reporting me to the FAA in case it is not ok to fly closer than 1000 feet of them.

Just wondering if I was making things up in my mind, or if I didnt have as much to worry about as I thought.

Thanks,

FS

Edit: I realize the title may be misleading as I was not exactly around them when I was flying. The title addresses the concern.

 

[GMack]

Given that you are powered flight and they are not, I'd say they have the right of way. You flying near them could be construed as "Reckless endangerment" much as flying near hot air balloons or at a parachuter's drop zone. How far away is the question and still a gray area. Should you collide, I'd venture to say it will be 100% your fault, both civilily as well as with the FAA.

 

[N017RW]

The ROW hierarchy for manned aircraft is based on speed/maneuverability with hot air balloons having the greatest.


These toy drones have the least amount of ‘rights’ to the airspace when compared to manned conveyances.

As far as separation I don’t recall a specific minimum but 1000ft sounds reasonable and respectful. They may not have even seen you.

As stated above, any incident would be bad for you.

 

[Flying Squirrel]

Given that you are powered flight and they are not, I'd say they have the right of way. You flying near them could be construed as "Reckless endangerment" much as flying near hot air balloons or at a parachuter's drop zone. How far away is the question and still a gray area. Should you collide, I'd venture to say it will be 100% your fault, both civilily as well as with the FAA.

Yes. A person will always have hierarchy over a machine. If a collision would occur I am absolutely sure it would be my fault which is why I stayed so far away.

 

[Flying Squirrel]

The ROW hierarchy for manned aircraft is based on speed/maneuverability with hot air balloons having the greatest.


These toy drones have the least amount of ‘rights’ to the airspace when compared to manned conveyances.

As far as separation I don’t recall a specific minimum but 1000ft sounds reasonable and respectful. They may not have even seen you.

As stated above, any incident would be bad for you.

Drones are a lot more than "toys" these days. It is an expensive tool I use very seriously for my job. With that said, it doesnt change the fact that you are right about them having the least amount of rights to the airspace. However, they were in an area that wasnt FAA approved for their flight, which is why I brought the question up. =) Is there FAA regulation for parasailers and hang gliders and where they're allowed to fly?

 

[MapMaker53]

How do you know that the area does not have FAA approval for use by hang gliders through a hang gliders organization? I know of a model aircraft club within the JFK Airport Class B Airspace that is permitted to operate -- and you don't find that on a map. If this is a common location for hang glider activity, I would say the local laws are probably okay with it and it would be you who is interfering. I disagree that 1000' away is a reasonable distance. That's a little longer than a football field and a hang glider can traverse that distance in very little time and quickly come upon a drone in their face. Just because you are flying VLOS doesn't mean you can't loose signal, leaving a powered return trajectory entirely up to the drone. IMO flying anywhere in the area of hang gliders is putting lives at risk. The safe thing to do would be to pick a day/time to fly when there is no hang glider activity.

 

[Flying Squirrel]

How do you know that the area does not have FAA approval for use by hang gliders through a hang gliders organization? If this is a common location for their activity, I would say the local laws are probably okay with it and it would be you who is interfering. I disagree that 1000' away is a reasonable distance. That's a little longer than a football field and a hang glider can traverse that distance in very little time and quickly come upon a drone in their face. Just because you are flying VLOS doesn't mean you can't loose signal, leaving a powered return trajectory entirely up to the drone. IMO flying anywhere in the area of hang gliders is putting lives at risk.

I would assume that if that were the case it would be listed on at least one of the 3 aerial maps I mentioned in the original post (especially the before you fly app). I posted also that I was flying at maximum half the height that they were as well. Not saying I'm right at all, I am just making sure you were aware of all the facts I put in the original post. I can understand the 1000 feet being a concern now that you put it like that. Before I flew I took stock of how far away from the hill they were drafting off of they were flying and I never flew within 1000 feet of that maximum range they had. Does that sound more reasonable?

 

[MapMaker53]

Sorry... edited my comment while you were writing. I know of a model aircraft club within the JFK Airport Class B Airspace (surface to 7000') that is permitted to operate -- and you don't find that on a map. So you really can't assume certain approved areas will appear on any app. It's hard to make a judgement call here, not seeing the actual situation and environment. It just sounds unwise to fly there IMO. Good of you to ask for opinions, as many people wouldn't bother.

 

[Flying Squirrel]

Sorry... edited my comment while you were writing. I know of a model aircraft club within the JFK Airport Class B Airspace that is permitted to operate -- and you don't find that on a map. So you really can't assume certain approved areas will appear on any app. It's hard to make a judgement call here, not seeing the actual situation and environment. It just sounds unwise to fly there IMO. Good of you to ask for opinions, as many people wouldn't bother.

Ah, I see your last sentence now haha. I figure putting specific situations I encounter on here and asking for opinions is the best way I can learn. I dont have anyone that I can call or text about stuff like this so this is my best option. I just want to learn everything I can.

 

[MapMaker53]

It's good learning source for all of us. I had never thought about hang gliders, as I have never seen a single one on Long Island. Pretty flat here.

 

[BigAl07]

While I can see where it would b e VERY tempting to operate in this area I just don't think the reward to you outweighs the very real risk to them.

As noted above ALL manned aviation have total right-of-way over our consumer grade UAS. As long as they are using toy grade components they will still be toys regardless of how we use them or how much $$ we make with them. I'm in the same boat as you but I still consider them toy grade for now.

One thing to consider is "What If"???? Just like the Russian UAS operator who lost his Tx/Rx link and the aircraft RTH in a straight line. He had no idea what happened until he saw it on the news. Did he intend for this to happen? Heavens NO! Was he responsible for it? Heavens YES!! Thank goodness it hit the type of helicopter it did and where it did. Now place this same Lost Link situation at the area you're talking about. The aircraft ascends to your preset height (is it possible it could be at their height?) and makes a bee-line back to home. This could indeed be a nasty issue in about a millisecond if they ended up in the same piece of air.

B4UFly is a horrible ap and not one I would risk my UAS let alone my business and freedom on. Just my 2 cents.

 

[Flying Squirrel]

While I can see where it would b e VERY tempting to operate in this area I just don't think the reward to you outweighs the very real risk to them.

As noted above ALL manned aviation have total right-of-way over our consumer grade UAS. As long as they are using toy grade components they will still be toys regardless of how we use them or how much $$ we make with them. I'm in the same boat as you but I still consider them toy grade for now.

One thing to consider is "What If"???? Just like the Russian UAS operator who lost his Tx/Rx link and the aircraft RTH in a straight line. He had no idea what happened until he saw it on the news. Did he intend for this to happen? Heavens NO! Was he responsible for it? Heavens YES!! Thank goodness it hit the type of helicopter it did and where it did. Now place this same Lost Link situation at the area you're talking about. The aircraft ascends to your preset height (is it possible it could be at their height?) and makes a bee-line back to home. This could indeed be a nasty issue in about a millisecond if they ended up in the same piece of air.

B4UFly is a horrible ap and not one I would risk my UAS let alone my business and freedom on. Just my 2 cents.

Thanks BigAI for always providing thoughtful responses. I realize there is risk whenever flying in the air that something might happen with a drone. Whether it be disconnection, dropping from the sky, fly away, etc.

I thought I explained this well in a comment above, but your comment will help me flesh out the situation. Nowhere I flew my drone, if it were to RTH (at any height) would it have flow through their airspace. I was extremely careful to make sure that wouldn't happen.

I completely agree about b4ufly. It is an atrocious app backed by the FAA that is a disgrace to people that use drones every day. (Rhyme unintended) It is why i use 2 other aerial maps: airmap and Visualize it. I have put a lot of thought and time into careful flying since being contacted by the FAA. This was such a unique situation that I needed to get some feedback on it.

Again thank you for your thoughts. Any feedback I get helps me to better understand all these incredibly complex situations.

 

[daveisim]

I disagree that 1000' away is a reasonable distance. That's a little longer than a football field

Not to nit-pick, a football field is 100 yards = 300 ft so 1,000 ft is quite a lot longer than a little.

Even re-reading the OP & comments, I'm not seeing what minimum separation distance he might be wanting. Less than 1,000 ft? How much?

If it was me there, I would have moseyed over to the group and co-ordinated my flight with them. I'm happy to hear that he kept a possible auto RTH route in mind when flying. So many forget about this, as we have seen.

 

[MapMaker53]

Not to nit-pick, a football field is 100 yards = 300 ft so 1,000 ft is quite a lot longer than a little.

Yep. Had a brain fart.

 

[Newbieguy]

So since the OP has the SN Flying squirrel. It brings up this question. Who would have the right away if the hand gliders had actually been flying squirrels? Asking for a friend.

 

[Flying Squirrel]

So since the OP has the SN Flying squirrel. It brings up this question. Who would have the right away if the hand gliders had actually been flying squirrels? Asking for a friend.

That is definitely the most important question I've seen posted on this forum. Maybe BigAI knows