Finally had a chat with "authority."

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#1
I've flown - safe and sane - in Wisconsin state parks and forests and riverways for 5 years now. I've come across rangers who never had any problems and were even interested and asked me to demonstrate for them. Yesterday, at Devil's Lake State Park, I thought I'd get some aerial shots of a huge Native American effigy mound in the shape of a man-bird. Nobody was around the mound and I kept my entire flight immediately above it. I had pretty much got all my shots and was in the high 20% on the battery so I was already bringing it in when a ranger showed up and told me to bring it in. I told him I was doing just that, and he told me again to bring it in. I asked him if I hadn't just said that.

He proceeded to inform me that quadcopters and the like aren't allowed in any state parks in WI. Couldn't have told you that based on previous rangers' reactions... but I was landing anyway.

Just bugged me that I was being totally cooperative and civil, and yet he felt the need to push the order he gave. Part of the problem is my difficulty with authority figures young enough to be my kids.

Oh well. I put it away and he went off and hassled someone else for using too much charcoal on the grills or something.

:)
 
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#3
He could have been worse..... After all, Flying in state parks is not allowed.
Don't just jump with a statement. He said , he was allowed WI. Do you know all state laws? Maybe it was just that park?
Sorry, maybe in most state. Not in WV. In most parks it's allowed. Babcock SP has a time period for drones. Mainly mid day. Always check to make sure. Things could change any day.
 
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#4
Part of the problem is my difficulty with authority figures young enough to be my kids.

Oh well. I put it away and he went off and hassled someone else for using too much charcoal on the grills or something.
What does the ranger's age have to do with anything?

And on that last part, I'm sure you meant to say "he went off and continued to do his job enforcing the rules and regulations and protecting the resources".
 
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#5
Don't just jump with a statement. He said , he was allowed WI. Do you know all state laws? Maybe it was just that park?
Sorry, maybe in most state. Not in WV. In most parks it's allowed. Babcock SP has a time period for drones. Mainly mid day. Always check to make sure. Things could change any day.
In Wisconsin, flying in state parks is prohibited unless explicitly posted for their use. The OP never said he was allowed to fly in WI state parks, he said he had never been stopped before.
 
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#6
In Wisconsin, flying in state parks is prohibited unless explicitly posted for their use. The OP never said he was allowed to fly in WI state parks, he said he had never been stopped before.
He said, "I've come across rangers who never had any problems and were even interested and asked me to demonstrate for them."
I am ignorant of the laws there. It sounded like it was OK by his statement. For 5 years and the rangers were all friendly.

We go by the statements told to us by the one who posted till we learn otherwise. I try (and I make mistakes) not to make blank statements without looking into things further. My post wasn't about the legality of flying in WI. state parks. In essence, my post was about not coming against someone to alienate, feel attacked, make guilty or embarrass. To the post #2, I stated that's not true in all states. It is legal in WV. state parks.

It's nice you went to the trouble to clarify the point that it is not legal to fly in WI. state parks.
 
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#7
What does the ranger's age have to do with anything?

And on that last part, I'm sure you meant to say "he went off and continued to do his job enforcing the rules and regulations and protecting the resources".
Oops, yeah, that's what I meant. As for age, it's just difficult to be ordered around by a kid. In my mind, authority figures are supposed to be older than I... of course, at my age now, they're all retired. Sigh.
He said, "I've come across rangers who never had any problems and were even interested and asked me to demonstrate for them."
I am ignorant of the laws there. It sounded like it was OK by his statement. For 5 years and the rangers were all friendly.

We go by the statements told to us by the one who posted till we learn otherwise. I try (and I make mistakes) not to make blank statements without looking into things further. My post wasn't about the legality of flying in WI. state parks. In essence, my post was about not coming against someone to alienate, feel attacked, make guilty or embarrass. To the post #2, I stated that's not true in all states. It is legal in WV. state parks.

It's nice you went to the trouble to clarify the point that it is not legal to fly in WI. state parks.
I checked when I got home: in WI you can't fly in State Parks without some sort of permission. There's one, south of Milwaukee, I think, that has areas where it's OK, but that's an exception.

I'd like to look into the permission part of it. At this same place, there are some cliffs that are very popular with rock climbers. I have some friends that asked me if I'd consider doing some video with/of them climbing. I'm hoping that with receptive subjects in that sort of situation, it might be possible to do it.
 
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#8
What does the ranger's age have to do with anything?

And on that last part, I'm sure you meant to say "he went off and continued to do his job enforcing the rules and regulations and protecting the resources".
And I guess the main thing was that little bit of attitude he displayed. Through life, I've talked to lots of cops with perfectly good attitudes and handled the situation exactly as it should be handled. So when they have to get "edgy," particularly with someone who is cooperating, it sort of irks me. That's all. Authorities are needed, but it's a big responsibility, and part of his job is PR. There was no need to tick anyone off who was complying with what he said.
 
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#12
This is just one of the MANY reasons I NO LONGER live in Wisconsin and Never will again. The DNR (Department of Natural Resources) are nothing short of a BUNCH of #######!
 
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#14
there Is currently a debate going on in Milwaukee about the park systems authority to restrict drones. The FAA has authority over air space. Can the Wisconsin control airspace above parks? Or do they only have the authority to launch within the park?
 
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#15
Of you have a problem with his age I feel sorry for you. 90%of soldiers and police officials etc, are willing to lay down their lives to protect your carefree lifestyle. Guess what they are alll most likely younger then you. The technology you use everyday was developed by someone younger then you. Age has nothing to do with it.
 
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#16
Oops, yeah, that's what I meant. As for age, it's just difficult to be ordered around by a kid. In my mind, authority figures are supposed to be older than I... of course, at my age now, they're all retired. Sigh.

I checked when I got home: in WI you can't fly in State Parks without some sort of permission. There's one, south of Milwaukee, I think, that has areas where it's OK, but that's an exception.

I'd like to look into the permission part of it. At this same place, there are some cliffs that are very popular with rock climbers. I have some friends that asked me if I'd consider doing some video with/of them climbing. I'm hoping that with receptive subjects in that sort of situation, it might be possible to do it.
Here in Maine, all state parks offer a "Special Activity Permit" required for many things, including flying a drone. I was also quoted that the fee for the permit, if it is awarded, is $500 USD. (drumming fingers on desk). I personally know of noone who has obtained one, but perhaps that not saying much at all. There is also aviation law that says you cannot fly lower than 2000 ft AGL over a state park. This is a hot topic of debate/discussion as a UAV can take off and land potentially outside of state park or wildlife refuge land and perhaps overfly this area IF, and BIG IF, this 2000 foot law does not apply to UAVs. The lawyers lie in wait to tackle this methinks.

A lot of this gray-ness will go away once Remote Identification becomes a reality (if it ever does, but it does solve a lot of gov. probs) - even more debate.
 
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#17
Don't just jump with a statement. He said , he was allowed WI. Do you know all state laws? Maybe it was just that park?
Sorry, maybe in most state. Not in WV. In most parks it's allowed. Babcock SP has a time period for drones. Mainly mid day. Always check to make sure. Things could change any day.
For some further clarity, this is from the w.v. state parks website:
  • Hawking, peddling, soliciting, begging, advertising, or carrying on any business or commercial enterprise is prohibited in state parks, and state forests without the written permission of the Director of the Division of Natural Resources.
This would include Part 333 or Part 107 pilots looking to sell videography or photography taken with their devices (land or otherwise) in a W.V. state park.

Also:
  • Acting in a disorderly manner or creating any noise which would result in annoyance to others.
I certainly can see John Q Public whining about that buzzing noise ...

Hobbyists may, as you state, be able to fly for fun?
 
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#18
Yes I imagine how upsetting it must have been that you weren’t cited for your illegal behavior. You could always go back and find the guy and demand an apology for his attitude. That’s what I would recommend.
 
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#19
For some further clarity, this is from the w.v. state parks website:
  • Hawking, peddling, soliciting, begging, advertising, or carrying on any business or commercial enterprise is prohibited in state parks, and state forests without the written permission of the Director of the Division of Natural Resources.
This would include Part 333 or Part 107 pilots looking to sell videography or photography taken with their devices (land or otherwise) in a W.V. state park.

Also:
  • Acting in a disorderly manner or creating any noise which would result in annoyance to others.
I certainly can see John Q Public whining about that buzzing noise ...

Hobbyists may, as you state, be able to fly for fun?
As stated, Babcock sp. has a specific time for drones to fly. There are no problems or concerns as yet. Outsiders are the biggest problems with their ideology. I love this state.
 
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#20
Of you have a problem with his age I feel sorry for you. 90%of soldiers and police officials etc, are willing to lay down their lives to protect your carefree lifestyle. Guess what they are alll most likely younger then you. The technology you use everyday was developed by someone younger then you. Age has nothing to do with it.
Age has everything to do with it... I’m retired military and it was at one time policy that you treat all civilians with respect due to them particularly older civilians. Greet them, “Good morning, (day, evening, etc.) sir or ma’am.” State your purpose, request or command. If they are in compliance or moving into compliance you wait, (landing a drone takes a minute or two, Ranger Rick had plenty of time to chat with the OP and come off as a nice person.) Not everything in the civilian world moves at the speed of the military. (Small joke there...) Exhibit patience, kindness and civility in your dealings with civilians. That’s drummed into your head in hundreds of briefings and rightly so.
They pay our bills, sign the checks, and their civil society is ostensibly what we have signed up to protect, sometimes at a very high cost. It’s why it’s called service. We are ready and willing to sacrifice much but we don’t need to be dicks about it.
 

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