DJI "See the Bigger Picture" - August 23, 2018

[John Locke]

As I said, I didn't have any issues with any of the P3s that I had back then.
Mine just flew as they should have.

You're lucky. But you do remember all the reports of craft falling out of the sky, right? And I'm sure you remember the throttling that took place in 1.6 firmware fix, slowing down acceleration after about half discharged, when the battery reached 3.6V. The risk also increased when a pilot would land, turn off the craft, then take of again with a battery half charged. The smarts of the battery wasn't smart enough to understand where the battery charge was at, and craft would fall out of the sky even though they still showed 30 or 40% left. You had to know to NEVER land and turn off the craft at 50% and then start flying again with the same battery, regardless what the battery gauge said. You could never start with less than 100% and feel safe. These problems don't exist today on newer craft, but they did with P3P. Ah, the good ole days.

 

[With The Birds]

You're lucky. But you do remember all the reports of craft falling out of the sky, right? And I'm sure you remember the throttling that took place in 1.6 firmware fix, slowing down acceleration after about half discharged, when the battery reached 3.6V. The risk also increased when a pilot would land, turn off the craft, then take of again with a battery half charged. The smarts of the battery wasn't smart enough to understand where the battery charge was at, and craft would fall out of the sky even though they still showed 30 or 40% left. You had to know to NEVER land and turn off the craft at 50% and then start flying again with the same battery, regardless what the battery gauge said. You could never start with less than 100% and feel safe. These problems don't exist today on newer craft, but they did with P3P. Ah, the good ole days.

The battery issue wasn’t about reliably determining available capacity, it was with DJI taking an overly conservative approach with the lowest permissible cell voltage (LVC setting). And yes it was a nightmare, many lost their AC’s unnecessarily. And let’s not forget the firmware SDK issue where litchi and autopilot users had AC autoland at critical battery level following signal loss because RTH didn’t function. Let’s just hope future issues provide minor inconveniences only. There is always the option of taking a wait and see approach, only perform an update when it seems it is safe to proceed.

 

[Dave Pitman]

I have to laugh at DJIs excuse for the one month delay of the Bigger Picture event after reading this post.

I'm not really buying that explanation myself. I don't know why they delayed, but I don't think it was to build up stock or because they installed some new hardware in order to comply with some future regulation that none of us have heard of. The stock build up during the delay was a consequence but not the reason.

If this alleged hardware was required then all the existing equipment would need to go away. Sorry, I don't think so.

Totally agree about the problems, significant at times, that DJI sorts out using the general customer as a test bed. The I2 is still going through some of those even now.

 

[John Locke]

The battery issue wasn’t about reliably determining available capacity, it was with DJI taking an overly conservative approach with the lowest permissible cell voltage (LVC setting). And yes it was a nightmare, many lost their AC’s unnecessarily. And let’s not forget the firmware SDK issue where litchi and autopilot users had AC autoland at critical battery level following signal loss because RTH didn’t function. Let’s just hope future issues provide minor inconveniences only. There is always the option of taking a wait and see approach, only perform an update when it seems it is safe to proceed.

That's what I've learned with DJI, I wait and see now with new releases. After 3yrs of flying DJI (and it's been great, don't get me wrong) you get to know a few things about DJI. I waited until May 2017 before I bought my P4P, right about when all the little things were fixed. I updated at that time and haven't since. It's awesome still to this day with 1.3.509, for reasons I'm sure you're aware of. Freedom!

 

[Meta4]

Yep, DJI is complying with the authorities, things are going to get even more strict. I have to laugh at DJIs excuse for the one month delay of the Bigger Picture event after reading this post. That's some clever marketing spin. The truth come out.

If you swallowed that, it seems that you're keen to jump on any half-baked conspiracy theory.
I didn't see anything credible in that.
What's so hard to believe about supply difficulties and not wanting to repeat the problems of the original Mavic release?

I waited until May 2017 before I bought my P4P, right about when all the little things were fixed. I updated at that time and haven't since. It's awesome still to this day with 1.3.509, for reasons I'm sure you're aware of. Freedom!

Just as it was awesome the week it was released.
I still haven't found out what needed "fixing".

 

[John Locke]

If you swallowed that, it seems that you're keen to jump on any half-baked conspiracy theory.
I didn't see anything credible in that.
What's so hard to believe about supply difficulties and not wanting to repeat the problems of the original Mavic release?

Just as it was awesome the week it was released.
I still haven't found out what needed "fixing".

Gimbal flipping. Also, the Yoyo up and down. You'd come to a stop to hover and the craft would go down 8' all by itself with no stick input. The yoyo effect was fixed in firmware eventually. Maybe the yoyo was P4, can't remember now.

 

[Meta4]

Gimbal flipping.

Something I haven't experienced or heard of as a widespread thing.

 

[John Locke]

If you swallowed that, it seems that you're keen to jump on any half-baked conspiracy theory.
I didn't see anything credible in that.
What's so hard to believe about supply difficulties and not wanting to repeat the problems of the original Mavic release?

No, I don't buy everything I read, but time will tell if this guy is right. What I will say, is this story makes a lot more sense than what DJI's statement was, which was not very clear (living up to our customer's expected experience???). I just find DJIs marketing spin amusing. You know there was a HUGE reason for the delay, and what they stated didn't seem so huge, hence their words felt like SPIN, not the truth. In 6 months we'll know the truth of this story if the FAA releases new regs that the M2 is magically compliant. Then I'll try to find a DJI employee at CES 2019 that will verify the story, maybe. Some of those guys are more loose lipped than others. That's the only way I'll believe this guys claim. If it's echoed by a DJI badge in Jan, then it's true.

I know I sound cynical, it's just that I've grown to know DJI. Don't get me wrong, I love their products, I'm a huge fan. But we all know they release firmware before it's thoroughly tested. They always have. I've seen them release firmware, and a week later release another. That should never happen because reliability testing should take weeks.

I sure hope I'm wrong, because if the beta testers (DJI customers) report no problems, I'm in.

 

[John Locke]

Something I haven't experienced or heard of as a widespread thing.

2 of 3 of my friends with P4P have experienced gimbal flips, and it still happens. It happens at high speed when turning, or with high winds, something my P4 never did. The camera flips 90 degrees sideways, then flips back when you slow down. I think the camera is too heavy for the gimbal, but that's just a guess. If you always fly with OA enabled and don't have wind, it doesn't happen. This is one of the reasons I don't fly in sport mode with my P4P.

 

[bdooley]

Really nice looking bird with lots of nice improvements. I just can't afford to go out and buy the latest and greatest gear every time DJI releases a new product. Sticking with my P4 Pro for now - it does everything I need and more. I really like the looks and portability of the Magic but I think I would have trouble setting it unless I kept it very close.

 

[monki77]

2 of 3 of my friends with P4P have experienced gimbal flips, and it still happens. It happens at high speed when turning, or with high winds, something my P4 never did. The camera flips 90 degrees sideways, then flips back when you slow down. I think the camera is too heavy for the gimbal, but that's just a guess. If you always fly with OA enabled and don't have wind, it doesn't happen. This is one of the reasons I don't fly in sport mode with my P4P.

I've had it happen once that I am aware of... I was just ascending in P mode at the time (with OA disabled). Never happend since that I'm aware of either. Very strange -

 

[Brockrock]

The yoyo effect was fixed in firmware eventually. Maybe the yoyo was P4, can't remember now.

Yes John. That was the P4. That was the big issue with that copter when I was looking to buy, and I read about it here. Then, new firmware came out and it was reported as fixed, so I bought it. That’s been my system since. Then, another firmware came out that fixed the near constantly tilted horizon. I was sooo happy about that. I guess the point is, DJI is not perfect, but nothing is that I have experienced here on earth. They do improve though, and I respect that. I will let the Mavic 2 Pro burn in a bit, and unless another Phantom comes out soon, that will be my upgrade. I will then keep my P4 on the shelf for all the great memories of where it took me...

 

[John Locke]

Yes John. That was the P4. That was the big issue with that copter when I was looking to buy, and I read about it here. Then, new firmware came out and it was reported as fixed, so I bought it. That’s been my system since. Then, another firmware came out that fixed the near constantly tilted horizon. I was sooo happy about that. I guess the point is, DJI is not perfect, but nothing is that I have experienced here on earth. They do improve though, and I respect that. I will let the Mavic 2 Pro burn in a bit, and unless another Phantom comes out soon, that will be my upgrade. I will then keep my P4 on the shelf for all the great memories of where it took me...

Funny comments about your emotional plan to keep past craft. I have my P3P from July 2015 still, primarily because of the memories and all the places I've been with it, including Statue of Liberty. I still have my P4 and Mavic too. The P4P is my go to most the time, due to it's enhanced flight capabilities over stock. When I capture animals I use the MavicP, due to less noise. I'm less attached to the MavicP so it's up for sale, simply because I don't have an emotional attachment to it because I haven't flown it very much. But yes, we love DJI, but it's wise to let the M2P craft bake a little before buying one. That's the beauty of this forum, it's a great way know when it's time to buy. Starting this week we'll hear from everyone who bought it Thursday. I'm crossing my fingers it's bug free.

This was shot with a boat launch.

 

[OOO]

2 of 3 of my friends with P4P have experienced gimbal flips, and it still happens. It happens at high speed when turning, or with high winds, something my P4 never did. The camera flips 90 degrees sideways, then flips back when you slow down. I think the camera is too heavy for the gimbal, but that's just a guess. If you always fly with OA enabled and don't have wind, it doesn't happen. This is one of the reasons I don't fly in sport mode with my P4P.

I’ve experienced this issue (flip) several times and it still happens!

 

[GadgetGuy]

Something I haven't experienced or heard of as a widespread thing.

You are one of the lucky ones. P4P gimbal flips are widespread. Technically, it's not a gimbal flip, but the gimbal is hitting a hard stop and bouncing off it, because it cannot compensate any further. You can easily simulate it with the battery on and props off, while holding the aircraft in your hand, and tipping it sideways until the gimbal hits the stop. If the aircraft ever reaches that position in flight, it will do the same thing. Depending upon how you fly and maneuver, the wind speed and wind direction relative to your flight direction, you may never see it, but every single P4P I have flown does it when I fly sideways to the right in high winds and descend. That's 13 different P4P's over a period of almost 2 years. @bladestrike says every DJI aircraft gimbal will hit the stop if pushed to the extreme, and it is expected in Sport mode. I never use Sport mode, and fly with OA on to limit top speed to 30mph to minimize it, but my flight moves still occasionally trigger it in high winds. Some P4P aircraft are much more prone to it than others (variances in the gimbal balancing), but all will do it, under the triggering conditions. Not a big deal, but it is not a myth. Flying in calm conditions and never flying sideways will eliminate it completely.