DJI Phantom 2v+ Burned up in Flight! Pix of Damage

burlbark said:
Wow.... I love it when there is this much intellect observing an issue and seeing the solution.

Indeed, the 2.1 esc may be of help. But they are not the solution by itself.

What is the solution? Replacing the wire? But isn't that existing wire just a continuation of motor winding? The same wire is running throughout the whole motor? I don't see how replacing just the ending piece of it by inserting a piece of stranded wire can help? Wouldn't the problem with that just be moved from one point to another? You would still then have a connection to a single wire/conductor beneath the motor?
 
burlbark said:
Indeed, the 2.1 esc may be of help. But they are not the solution by itself.

What i understood was that the V2 of ESC's couldn't deliver the current and had blown up mos-fets.
I deliberately blocked each motor on the V3 with i assume the V2 ESC's, non did die nor transcended to be a smoke signal apparatus.
The shrink sealed on the wires wasn't melted after that test.
What i do notice is that i can easily block a motor by hand when it turns on idle ( no prop attached obvious ).
I just checked for a double sticker on them and yes the ESC's on this V3 bird has also 2 stickers on them.
We have to wait a week for the pictures from paulgrenga.
Patience is a virtue.
 
Apologies for my earlier post. I was misled by another forum post on here that circled where it says v2 so i checked mine which also read v2. I understand now that place thatnit states v2 means nothing??? So i looked at the sticker on the otheer end that says no version number. You really can understand why people are left scratching theor heads. i just want to know how you can tell witout taking a unit apart whether or not it is safe to fly....

My dealer wants to help but DJI are adamant that there is no fault with any unit!! I know that part is a joke but what are all supposed to do? Just wait for the thing to die? Mine cost close to £1000 in the UK and i have flown it for a total oaf 14 minutes before it died! Could have flown concorde for a lot less!!! :)
 
Ivan said:
burlbark said:
Wow.... I love it when there is this much intellect observing an issue and seeing the solution.

Indeed, the 2.1 esc may be of help. But they are not the solution by itself.

What is the solution? Replacing the wire? But isn't that existing wire just a continuation of motor winding? The same wire is running throughout the whole motor? I don't see how replacing just the ending piece of it by inserting a piece of stranded wire can help? Wouldn't the problem with that just be moved from one point to another? You would still then have a connection to a single wire/conductor beneath the motor?

The motor and the windings vibrate as a single unit. They have the most mass in the arm and vibrate at the end of the arm. This vibration causes flexing of the motor leads. At the motor side it is not a big deal as there is shrink wrap in place and this provides stress relief, also the closer you are to the motor the less torsional flexing will occur on the wire because there is less plastic chassis to span. There are also 3 wires supporting each other at the motor side.

When you get to the esc, being closer to the body providing additional torsional strength the esc becomes very vibration resistant and it flexes less. The wires are no longer supporting one another here and there is no safe way to anchor them to the esc's and allow dissipation of heat. Obviously now the motor wire is going to fail at the point that it is anchored to solidly and in an area that does not allow flex. This is why adding the flexible wire is a must. There is high frequency torsional loading going on here along with high frequency vibration. By adding a flexible section of wire these forces are also dampened and spread out across the full length of the flexible wire.

We also need to take into consideration the removal of the high temperature coating on the motor winding. This must be done to allow full current capacity at the esc. How is DJI removing this coating? Is it a chemical dip or is it through a mechanical means? If it is mechanical than they are introducing a fissure into the copper hard wire that will be prone to breaking. Are they even removing the coating, and just allowing the end of the clipped motor leads to provide current? This appears to have been the case in some of the solder lifting scenarios.

Then we have heat cycling in place. Obviously the motor wires get warm and this is dependent upon load. What dissipates heat better? A thin copper wire or a multi strand larger gauge in silicone insulation? The larger gauge wire does.

Then we have inductance and I dont want to start sounding theoretical here but a braided wire has much more skin effect and would allow the initial voltage to travel uninhibited.

There is a reason why no company in the past used hard wire to mount an rc motor, especially in a flying platform, its just unheard of.... :lol: This larger wire also draws heat out of the esc allowing them to run cooler.

By replacing the power leads all of the above issues are removed and nothing negative is added except cost and time. By fixing this problem of course DJI will void your warranty.

Jeremy James
 
burlbark said:
By replacing the power leads all of the above issues are removed and nothing negative is added except cost and time. By fixing this problem of course DJI will void your warranty.

Jeremy James
Thank you Jeremy, I understand your point now! This is however a really tough job for a regular user to execute, even for someone with soldering experience. There is in total 32 soldering connections to be made, 8 per each arm(3 at the motor, 3 at the ESC, 2 at the main board) and the soldering has to be really good otherwise you're just creating another possible problem. You need to have good tools also.
So basically the advice would be for anyone who buys a new v3.0 phantom to immediately send it to repair. :?

Is there maybe some solution to alleviate the problem in a more suitable way for a DIY job. Is there some hot glue that could resist higher temperatures that could be placed over the connections on the ESC to give better structural support?
 
Ivan said:
burlbark said:
By replacing the power leads all of the above issues are removed and nothing negative is added except cost and time. By fixing this problem of course DJI will void your warranty.

Jeremy James
Thank you Jeremy, I understand your point now! This is however a really tough job for a regular user to execute, even for someone with soldering experience. There is in total 32 soldering connections to be made, 8 per each arm(3 at the motor, 3 at the ESC, 2 at the main board) and the soldering has to be really good otherwise you're just creating another possible problem. You need to have good tools also.
So basically the advice would be for anyone who buys a new v3.0 phantom to immediately send it to repair. :?

Is there maybe some solution to alleviate the problem in a more suitable way for a DIY job. Is there some hot glue that could resist higher temperatures that could be placed over the connections on the ESC to give better structural support?

Its really not that bad and it shouldnt take someone with a good soldering station a little skill more than an afternoon with a break. It takes me less than 3 hours total but I do have all the equipment and a nice soldering station.
 
Can u give us a link somewhere wherw we can buy the wires and a summarized step by step on how to.?

TIA
 
burlbark said:
Wow.... I love it when there is this much intellect observing an issue and seeing the solution.

Indeed, the 2.1 esc may be of help. But they are not the solution by itself.

And neither is adding a section of different wire. Advising people with little to no experience to perform a band-ade mod will only open the door to even more issues. Btw, I had 2 wires to each wire in the motors I installed. Maybe some didn't trim back far enough. I can't remember now on the yellow wire, but the red and the black wire had 2 wire strands in each wire.

DJI has now matched the motor, ESC, and firmware. Does that mean a wire wont vibrate loose, it's doubtful. But what has been going on with the motor/esc combo should no longer contribute to any loose wires.

To place blame on the wires only, they would need to all fail simultaneously, and not just one wire.

Anyway, this is most likely a good reason why dji doesn't support this issue as they should. If pilots would make a post showing pic's and giving detailed data as to what took place during their quad failing, then dji might see some structure in the group and then step up and help this from happening to anyone else.

As for your remark burlbark on my loss of 2 of 3 quads, is wrong. It's actually 3 of 3 now. I got into the Phantom 2 quads when they 1st came out. We actually had updates every week and sometimes twice a week. And unless you sat on your porch and just gazed at your quad, you were very likely to experience some type of failure.

paulgrenga I hope to see you get back on your feet and in the air again soon.
 
flyNfrank said:
burlbark said:
Wow.... I love it when there is this much intellect observing an issue and seeing the solution.

Indeed, the 2.1 esc may be of help. But they are not the solution by itself.

And neither is adding a section of different wire. Advising people with little to no experience to perform a band-ade mod will only open the door to even more issues. Btw, I had 2 wires to each wire in the motors I installed. Maybe some didn't trim back far enough. I can't remember now on the yellow wire, but the red and the black wire had 2 wire strands in each wire.

DJI has now matched the motor, ESC, and firmware. Does that mean a wire wont vibrate loose, it's doubtful. But what has been going on with the motor/esc combo should no longer contribute to any loose wires.

To place blame on the wires only, they would need to all fail simultaneously, and not just one wire.

Anyway, this is most likely a good reason why dji doesn't support this issue as they should. If pilots would make a post showing pic's and giving detailed data as to what took place during their quad failing, then dji might see some structure in the group and then step up and help this from happening

paulgrenga I hope to see you get back on your feet and in the air again soon.

Could you please attempt flying with only 2 motor wires connected as I have quoted.

This is not the customers fault. I can't believe you would even insinuate that DJI lack of response is because of it customers lack of intelligence.
 
flyNfrank said:
A I had 2 wires to each wire in the motors I installed. Maybe some didn't trim back far enough. I can't remember now on the yellow wire, but the red and the black wire had 2 wire strands in each wire.

Thats due to the windings.
One is the end of a winding and the other is the beginning of one.
So current isn't flowing true 2 wires but only one on a specific winding and that is due they are not connected in or just @ the motor.

DJI has now matched the motor, ESC, and firmware. Does that mean a wire wont vibrate loose, it's doubtful. But what has been going on with the motor/esc combo should no longer contribute to any loose wires.

Really ? Pull the other one.

To place blame on the wires only, they would need to all fail simultaneously, and not just one wire.

A chain is only as strong as the weakest link. Therefore they would not be failing all @ ones.

Anyway, this is most likely a good reason why dji doesn't support this issue as they should. If pilots would make a post showing pic's and giving detailed data as to what took place during their quad failing, then dji might see some structure in the group and then step up and help this from happening to anyone else.

They never will admit its a issue because imagine that they have to recall all sold birds and replacing the motors.

And unless you sat on your porch and just gazed at your quad, you were very likely to experience some type of failure.

If they made a good product in the first place then there wouldn't be any failure.

As a final, The various mods done by many to improve there Phantom V+ ( mind the GPS module shielding, camera detachment, etc... ) Did DJI ever admit or recalled the V1 and V2 to improve and/or change that ? Nope they wait until a unit fails and then going to look for any reason to avoid warranty.
Then they produce a new version with the mods some have done and never mention/admit any fabrication flaw.
Its hilarious to witness how some act like a fish on land to uphold a illusion.
 
burlbark said:
Its really not that bad and it shouldnt take someone with a good soldering station a little skill more than an afternoon with a break. It takes me less than 3 hours total but I do have all the equipment and a nice soldering station.
But then we are better off buying an ARF kit like the Flame Wheel F450 and solder all day long. :-/ That's why I'm trying to figure out a simple fix, but I'm no expert in materials, chemistry, thermal qualities.... If there would be something we can just do to place over the existing ESC connections that would act as vibration absorber/structural support and either not interfere with existing heat dissipation from mosfets, or even actually improve cooling. Is there such a compound? The fix needs to be easy, like for example the GPS foil mod. Otherwise this does not make any sense and we should start building a case against DJI. For example a video compilation of all the burned units documented till today + documented tests with thermal analysis with FLIR cameras or something. If a youtube video like that existed, DJI could not deny the problem anymore.
You guys that do repairs should be in best position to document this issue, snce so many phantoms go through your hands. It's way harder for us mere mortals to collect good arguments. :(
 
Ivan said:
burlbark said:
Its really not that bad and it shouldnt take someone with a good soldering station a little skill more than an afternoon with a break. It takes me less than 3 hours total but I do have all the equipment and a nice soldering station.
But then we are better off buying an ARF kit like the Flame Wheel F450 and solder all day long. :-/ That's why I'm trying to figure out a simple fix, but I'm no expert in materials, chemistry, thermal qualities.... If there would be something we can just do to place over the existing ESC connections that would act as vibration absorber/structural support and either not interfere with existing heat dissipation from mosfets, or even actually improve cooling. Is there such a compound? The fix needs to be easy, like for example the GPS foil mod. Otherwise this does not make any sense and we should start building a case against DJI. For example a video compilation of all the burned units documented till today + documented tests with thermal analysis with FLIR cameras or something. If a youtube video like that existed, DJI could not deny the problem anymore.
You guys that do repairs should be in best position to document this issue, snce so many phantoms go through your hands. It's way harder for us mere mortals to collect good arguments. :(

This has all been done and submitted to DJI.
 
burlbark said:
This has all been done and submitted to DJI.
That is something! Any replies yet? Is that information available anywhere publicly? Somehow I doubt they would be motivated to do anything if it is not... :-/
 
Ivan,
I got a reply from Dji which was basically notification about my case
"Being solved" and what they said is that they don't have
Enough complaints but they are aware of the situation.

I'll find the exact email and paste it here.

Pozdrav u Split. :)
 
hunch said:
Ivan,
I got a reply from Dji which was basically notification about my case
"Being solved" and what they said is that they don't have
Enough complaints but they are aware of the situation.

I'll find the exact email and paste it here.

Pozdrav u Split. :)
Pozdrav hunch! :D (You visited Croatia? :cool: )

I thank you in my name for the efforts towards the DJI. I'm also trying to communicate with them but it is so hard. I guess one has to learn Chinese to properly communicate with them. Looking forward to that e-mail you sent...
:geek:
 
Visited? you could say that.
Bio sam u Hrvatskoj bar 100 puta, par puta u Splitu, na Hvaru, Bracu,...
rodzen u sloveniji, a majka mi je Hrvatica :)

here is the email i got from DJI about the motor / wire / ESC issue.
they just brushed it off pretty much.

Hani


##- Please type your reply above this line -##
Your request (77897) has been solved. Please submit a new request if you have any further questions.

M. R.
M. R. (DJI Technology)
Jan 10 21:09

Dear Hani,

Thank you for contacting DJI North America.

We would be happy to assist you.

Regarding the issue that you are describing, we have not collected enough data to be able to offer an assessment. While we are aware of a handful of complaints made by users on various forums, our engineers have not had to issue repairs for this problem on a large enough scale to consider it a widespread issue, as we certainly have more users that are flying their units without experiencing trouble than we have users sending units to us for repair.

However, you can rest assured that if their is a discernible defect found with any Phantom units, our Repair Team will be available to correct any damaged units.

As of now, we are taking all Phantom issues on a case by case basis and will be happy to assist you if you experience any technical difficulties.

If you require any further assistance, you may contact us Monday-Friday, 9:00am-5:00pm PST at 818-235-0789.

Please note we have changed our phone service to include authorized dealers. If you wish to contact DJI directly please press option 5 after you choose "Repair" or "Technical Support."

Thank you for choosing DJI,
"The Future of Possible!”

DJI Customer Service North America

This email is a service from DJI Technology. Delivered by Zendesk.
Message-Id:9S3CBM24_54b2059a3addd_52f43ff5140cd408182546d_sprutTicket-Id:77897
 
hunch said:
Visited? you could say that.
Bio sam u Hrvatskoj bar 100 puta, par puta u Splitu, na Hvaru, Bracu,...
rodzen u sloveniji, a majka mi je Hrvatica :)
Hahah, zakon! Sto bi se reklo small world ;). Mozda se i sretnemo negdje onda u buducnosti ;) Gdje si sada? Slovenija?

hunch said:
here is the email i got from DJI about the motor / wire / ESC issue.
they just brushed it off pretty much.
Yup, quite depressing response actually. And the "our Repair Team will be available to correct any damaged units." what about damaged property, injured people and such.... Are they gonna repair that? :(

Do you mind sharing what you have sent to them? If you have already built a case, maybe it can be used here as a start to document this issue further and/or increase awareness.
 
hunch said:
Ivan,
I got a reply from Dji which was basically notification about my case
"Being solved" and what they said is that they don't have
Enough complaints but they are aware of the situation.

I'll find the exact email and paste it here.

Pozdrav u Split. :)

Obvious, its winter time in the north hemisphere.
Not much flying going on.
 
paulgrenga said:
Well, I actually thought that all the posts about the ESC's being faulty sounded a little hysterical. I could not tell from looking at my ESC's what version I had anyway.

My initial flights all went fine. I purchased FPVLR's Stage 4 setup, installed it according to the instructions, and it all was working perfectly. (PS: The Stage 4 really is a Great product Tony, thank you!)

THEN on a relatively short programmed flight today my bird disappeared quickly. I could see throught my iPhone's wifi settings that I was still connected but, the DJI app was giving me the "disconnected" signal and I lost video. I figured it would return after the short pre-programed Gound Station flight concluded. It did not. The DJI app never re-connected.

After about 10 minutes I went looking. Using WifiFoFum, I tracked it's hidden wifi signal to a 100m area a few blocks from my home. My 13 year old son eventually found her in a neighbors back yard. It was still very hot. (I'm grateful no one was hurt). By the way, its 20 degrees here in New York, so that temp does not compensate for the ESC faulty wires. 3 out of 4 motors were hanging through the melted plastic cover by the ESC connection.

It still smells like burning electronics.

Here's the pictures.

What should I do???? I have purchased 3 PV2's and this PV2+. Having bought 4 of DJI's products, it will be a "heart breaker" if they give my the typical "out of warranty" BS over a known issue just because I opened the cover to install antennas. :oops:

Where did you purchase?
 
Just a quick update regarding the responses I received from B&H Photo and from DJI (after advising them of the issues that prompted this post...)

B&H Photo wrote back telling me to contact SquareTrade who, apparently, offers the $100+ warranty service that I purchased from B&H when I purchased the P2V+.

Dji wrote: "Dear Paul, Thank you for contacting DJI. The issues that you're describing require for you to send in your unit for repair. In order to be issued an RMA (Return Merchandise Authorization) number, we encourage you to call our support staff via phone to discuss your options. You may contact us Monday-Friday, 9:00am-5:00pm PST at 818-235-0789. Thank you for choosing DJI, "The Future of Possible!” DJI Customer Service North America"

Both DJI and B&H got back to me promptly.

I have never before dealt with SquareTrade or DJI's customer service department, so I do not know what to expect. I will contact both and keep you all posted.

Happy Flying, Paul
 

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