DJI Phantom 2v+ Burned up in Flight! Pix of Damage

To the Point,

Yep, one motor and arm are perfect! Three are fried. It looks like the screws melted and then the engine weight or torque pulled the thin wires (that run from the esc's to the motors) right through what appears to be the semi-melted plastic upper. I'm having trouble uploading pictures, but I did post the bad motors earlier. The undamaged one looks like new. If the bird was running on the ground, it would have been in snow, so there's no dirt.
 
@OP, that is insane, wow.
 
paulgrenga said:
To the Point,

Yep, one motor and arm are perfect! Three are fried. It looks like the screws melted and then the engine weight or torque pulled the thin wires (that run from the esc's to the motors) right through what appears to be the semi-melted plastic upper. I'm having trouble uploading pictures, but I did post the bad motors earlier. The undamaged one looks like new. If the bird was running on the ground, it would have been in snow, so there's no dirt.

If the culprit for the fall really was a problematic ESC, you are going to find that the one that failed was in that arm that looks perfectly fine. Take the shell off and take few photos of that ESC.

The other explanation why only three motors melted, could be if those three arms were buried in snow and that remaining one wasn't. Did you actually see in what position it was on the ground or did your son pick it up before you could?
 
IMHO there is no way that much damage could have happened while in flight. Looks like it happened once on the ground as if it was still trying to run but could not, everything overheated, caused the damage and then shut down
 
WOW !!!

Logically, in this case.. only an over-heated motor housing could have caused such damage.
Regardless if it was the ESC's or the NAZA control unit commanding the motors to remain on.

Observation:

  • The Bird appears intact and clean indicating it did not plummet to a ground crash. The pilot possibly lost control and the drone had a more-so controlled manor encountered the ground or ground based object. An then its props were fouled while the power to the motors attempted to spin the props. Each props fouled resistance turned to heat in the motor housings.

Postulate:

  • The Bird must have came to rest at an angle indicated by the affected motors that melt-flowed along the plastic arm cross members towards the pull of gravity.
    The Bird appears to have had motor power applied for the whole time it took the owner to find the Bird.
    If the props were fouled and power continued to flow through the motors which were attempting to spin the fouled up props, then heat could have built up in the motor housings which then was hot enough to melt-flow the plastic in the direction of gravity.


DJI:
Add to your motor cut off algorithm to detect lack of accelerator activity with the motors at an idle command speed. Oh wait.. perhaps DJI cant detect this because DJI may have not implemented current consumption by each ESC. Over-current AND Idle Speed should trigger an all motors cut off. OR.. in the least when the above event occurs, then cut off all motors after a given time period.

The Parrots AR Drone has been in the market place for over four years and it has a way to detect a stalled prop; then shutting down all props. So, this by now should be a learned and implemented feature in all mass-marketed drones. In know.. I know.. The AR Drone has wimpy motors. But. it has a way to detect fouled props and shut all motors down.
 
paulgrenga said:
To the Point,

Yep, one motor and arm are perfect! Three are fried. It looks like the screws melted and then the engine weight or torque pulled the thin wires (that run from the esc's to the motors) right through what appears to be the semi-melted plastic upper. I'm having trouble uploading pictures, but I did post the bad motors earlier. The undamaged one looks like new. If the bird was running on the ground, it would have been in snow, so there's no dirt.

If you ever can remove the upper shell try to do it carefully on the good arm side.
If a wire is lose then that was the cause of the crash and why that arm is still ok.
I guess you can transfer the wi-fi and other stuff to a phantom 2 so it becomes a V+.

Now someone suggested that the ok arm/motor could be still functional and provided cooling.
Maybe so but if the bird is upside down in the snow as Paul mentions then its most likely that motor was blocked as well.
I suspect it was upside down as 3 arms are waisted, that can only be the case when its upside down and not laying on a side.

I began to replace the hard wires on the motors with 18awg ones.
One done, 3 to go !
 
ToThePoint said:
paulgrenga said:
To the Point,

Yep, one motor and arm are perfect! Three are fried. It looks like the screws melted and then the engine weight or torque pulled the thin wires (that run from the esc's to the motors) right through what appears to be the semi-melted plastic upper. I'm having trouble uploading pictures, but I did post the bad motors earlier. The undamaged one looks like new. If the bird was running on the ground, it would have been in snow, so there's no dirt.

If you ever can remove the upper shell try to do it carefully on the good arm side.
If a wire is lose then that was the cause of the crash and why that arm is still ok.
I guess you can transfer the wi-fi and other stuff to a phantom 2 so it becomes a V+.

Now someone suggested that the ok arm/motor could be still functional and provided cooling.
Maybe so but if the bird is upside down in the snow as Paul mentions then its most likely that motor was blocked as well.
I suspect it was upside down as 3 arms are waisted, that can only be the case when its upside down and not laying on a side.

I began to replace the hard wires on the motors with 18awg ones.
One done, 3 to go !

Its really makes it easier to remove all the motors at once, clip them all and do all the turn and burn 4 at a time.
 
paulgrenga, I'm sorry to hear your quad was damaged. I have mine at DJI right now waiting on a replacement. I actually just shipped it on the 16th after being too sick to take care of it sooner.

Btw, it does bother me to think you thought people like myself and others who's quads have dropped from the sky was hilarious. I have also spent a good amount of time along with others trying to figure out what went wrong so others like yourself would not have to experience what we did.

ToThePoint, you sir are way off with ANY mention about the wires on the V3 motors. The problem is the ESC Firmware is not correct for the V3 motor combo, unless you have v2.1 ESC's.

If you have a V3 quad, it must have v2.1 ESC's. Any other combo other then that, you can expect to experience some hell. You can laugh or cry, it will happen at some point.

I hope all of you with a V3 or modified vPlus with V3 motors take this seriously. New v2.1 ESC's are around $19 US. If you are over 30 days since purchase, you should still contact your dealer and see if they will help. If not, call DJI the quad has a 1 year warranty and this should get covered depending on what you tell them happened. I bought my quad in July. I explained what happened, they said box it up, we are emailing you the info on shipping, your quad will be replaced.

Anyone needing help beyond what you seen here, I will be more then glad to help on my website.
 
paulgrenga said:
They pulled the heated wires through the hot upper side of the body like it was butter.
That really sounds like two of the wires shorted and causing the motor and wires to heat up a lot.

I don't know what the moron in this video was doing, but when the smoke clears you can see that he had a battery plugged into two wires of the motor with no ESC. This is pretty much what happens when you short two of the three wires between the ESC and the motor.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3PihSW2_dzM[/youtube]
 
flyNfrank said:
ToThePoint, you sir are way off with ANY mention about the wires on the V3 motors. The problem is the ESC Firmware is not correct for the V3 motor combo, unless you have v2.1 ESC's.

I pinched myself and you're right, that lose wire was a dream.
Sorry for the joke, maybe i pull the other leg some day.

Greetings and figure it out.
Hasta la vista.
 
ToThePoint said:
flyNfrank said:
ToThePoint, you sir are way off with ANY mention about the wires on the V3 motors. The problem is the ESC Firmware is not correct for the V3 motor combo, unless you have v2.1 ESC's.

I pinched myself and you're right, that lose wire was a dream.
Sorry for the joke, maybe i pull the other leg some day.

Greetings and figure it out.
Hasta la vista.

Dont worry he is only experiencing one of the stages of denial... It will pass... Did you notice that he has lost 2 out of 3 of his Phantoms? The absurdity of using non flexible wire to power a vibrating motor is just off the charts stupid. Some people cant see this simple fact, are there other issues? Probably, but you cant alleviate them without having a strong foundation.
 
Just thought I'd post on what appears to be a similar incident but not as bad.
viewtopic.php?f=27&t=32924
file.php

You can clearly see in the picture the motor is the old non V3 version.
 
Not arguing or agreeing, but in your previous post... are you saying using 2.1 ESC does not fix the problem ?
And if so, has there been any issues with anyone using 2.1 and having this problem ??

Sure the wires might be an issue... but how do you know if the ESC was 2.1 the issue might of still happened ??

It appears as if even with the thin wires, if you have 2.1 ESC you don't get the issue... unless I've missed a whole lot of threads ?

again not arguing... just trying to understand where you are coming from. Know your one of the most experienced on the forums, but yeah.. where are the problems of people with 2.1 ???? Maybe fixing the wires giving you extra security, but again, where are the people with 2.1 who are having problems ??? Really asking lol.. incase I've missed something... ?

burlbark said:
ToThePoint said:
flyNfrank said:
ToThePoint, you sir are way off with ANY mention about the wires on the V3 motors. The problem is the ESC Firmware is not correct for the V3 motor combo, unless you have v2.1 ESC's.

I pinched myself and you're right, that lose wire was a dream.
Sorry for the joke, maybe i pull the other leg some day.

Greetings and figure it out.
Hasta la vista.

Dont worry he is only experiencing one of the stages of denial... It will pass... Did you notice that he has lost 2 out of 3 of his Phantoms? The absurdity of using non flexible wire to power a vibrating motor is just off the charts stupid. Some people cant see this simple fact, are there other issues? Probably, but you cant alleviate them without having a strong foundation.
 
burlbark said:
Dont worry he is only experiencing one of the stages of denial... It will pass... Did you notice that he has lost 2 out of 3 of his Phantoms? The absurdity of using non flexible wire to power a vibrating motor is just off the charts stupid. Some people cant see this simple fact, are there other issues? Probably, but you cant alleviate them without having a strong foundation.
Burlbark, can you please repeat what is in your opinion a preventive fix to this? I remeber you wrote about replacing wires, then you also mentioned the soldering point was not good because of motor winding wire insulation that was not removed in factory before soldering. What are the final DIY steps that you suggest?
 
Thank you again for all your comments. I am travelling for a week. When I return I will take off the cover and take photos of the underside of the ESC's. I will also find out from my son how the bird was positioned when he found it.

FlyNFrank, I didn't mean to insult anybody by saying in my initial post that I thought the ESC Warning posts "sounded a little hysterical" (not "hilarious"). When I first read that post there wasn't a great deal of anecdotal experience with the predicted problem. I apologize to you, though I thought my post was sufficiently self degradating to indicate how dumb it was to ignore those warnings. I too have lost, replaced, repaired, etc. a NUMBER of Phantoms. I share your pain.

I do have an explanation for not heeding the warning. 1st, I was to impatient to wait to fly; 2nd, though somewhat technically inclined, I really had trouble (and still do) understanding how to tell two ESC versions apart, which is the "right" ESC and how and where to actually order the proper ESC's. Between a number of conflicting posts under a topic describing one mod, there was much debate about mods, ordering new ESC's and other theories. I just "locked up", buried my head in the sand, went flying. I think its likely that many more DJI P2V+ pilots are doing the same thing right now.

I do have a suggestion for the moderators. Here, the problem was predicted by hunch and burlbank before it became a "outbreak", & seemingly solved by their mod right away or by switching out the ESC's.

When an issue like this is raised and then solved, it might be worth posting a sticky with a description of the issue, the cause, the symptoms, and solutions that have been proven out by guys like Burlbank, hunch, etc. The debates are great, and should continue, but if a fix has been proven out, why not make it a sticky?

Anyway, thanks again for all your comments and advice. This time, and next, I'll take advantage of your collective experience BEFORE I have to ask my son to trudge through the woods again...

Paul
 
:D
Great post Paul,
Sorry for your loss, but I have noticed these V3 threads on the top of the P2V+ page since the first batch of the V3s started failing. Unfortunately, DJI used up some of the old V2 parts on the birds with the new motors. The unvented wifi units and the V2 ESCs to be specific.

As an Electrical Conractor with a UL Control shop, I agreed with the concept that the ESCs were the main problem, as they cannot handle the bigger load of the new motors. However, connecting motors to ESCs with stiff single conductor wire is just wrong. If you'll notice, when you open the bird up, all of the other wires are stranded. Fine stranded copper wire is called MTW or machine tool wire. That is the kind of wire we use to connect motors to varriable speed controlers (big ESCs) to prevent premature failure.

A single conductor wire can break, in this case off the ESC board causing a single phase motor failure. The other obvious problem with the single conductor, is that electicity flows on the outside of the wire. Multi-stranded wire is rated for a higher ampacity (current) than the same size single conductor. That said, the single conductor might be capable of carrying the current with the correct ESCs, but for how long?

Again, sorry for your loss. Return the bird like Frank, and hopefully you'll be flying soon!

Fplvert
 
Fplvert said:
A single conductor wire can break, in this case off the ESC board causing a single phase motor failure.

The other obvious problem with the single conductor, is that electicity flows on the outside of the wire. Multi-stranded wire is rated for a higher ampacity (current) than the same size single conductor. That said, the single conductor might be capable of carrying the current with the correct ESCs, but for how long?

Fplvert

paulgrenga ... do all the melted motors show damaged Motor-to-ESC wiring? Do all the failed motors show a broken or weakened single conductor wire ???

Please post a picture from a top view perspective showing all four motor-props in the same pic.


  • No doubt the single conductor wiring must go. If the solid wiring excessively heats up it can become far more embrittled that stranded wire thus causing fracture points lessening the current flow which in effect creates resistive load in the affected wire and imbalances the phase power distribution to the motor windings.

    Also, there is no real skin effect occurring between solid and stranded wiring at these type switching frequencies. The difference can be the total copper cross section area that conducts Power and especially Heat.

    HEAT is conducted a lot better in stranded wire than solid given the same amount of copper cross section; the current flow initially being the same until the heat fatigues the solid copper at key points. Most likely those key points are where the wire has been manually bent or near a solder interface joint where the heat begins to build up in the wire run creating a phase power imbalance in the motor which creates more heat in the affected wire and motor thus creating a Self Eating Watermellon.
 
burlbark said:
ToThePoint said:
flyNfrank said:
ToThePoint, you sir are way off with ANY mention about the wires on the V3 motors. The problem is the ESC Firmware is not correct for the V3 motor combo, unless you have v2.1 ESC's.

I pinched myself and you're right, that lose wire was a dream.
Sorry for the joke, maybe i pull the other leg some day.

Greetings and figure it out.
Hasta la vista.

Dont worry he is only experiencing one of the stages of denial... It will pass... Did you notice that he has lost 2 out of 3 of his Phantoms? The absurdity of using non flexible wire to power a vibrating motor is just off the charts stupid. Some people cant see this simple fact, are there other issues? Probably, but you cant alleviate them without having a strong foundation.

Time will tell burlbark.
It could be that the firmware and/or version V2 ESC's has issue's but as you mention, if the hardware isn't good then you can't solve it with software, meaning that a basic design flaw with the wires coming out of the motors is the first to deal with.
Time will tell if the V3 bird shall drop out of the sky again.
 
Wow.... I love it when there is this much intellect observing an issue and seeing the solution.

Indeed, the 2.1 esc may be of help. But they are not the solution by itself.
 

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