Deep discharge to 8% destroyed my battery
- Thread starter J.James
- Start date
Well there you have it! What should DJI now advertise as the flight time? If you can't run the battery to 8% or lower, and some even keep them above 25%, what is the new comfort level? It has to be attributed to faulty batteries! I drop my batteries to or below 8% all the time and have had no problems. I still get over 20 mins. with 50 or more cycles on them.
ditto thatAfter being in the hobby of everything rc for a while I have always deep cycled NiCd and NiMH batteries and the main purpose is to erase any memory that is stored away. I suppose their line of thinking is the same, but from what i have researched and from first hand experience I personally don't. It seems like with lipos and lead acid batteries that if you drain them too low they never recover the ability to hold a charge for a long period of time. This is not in stone, just my own opinion.
IMHO-- I would rather base my decision based on the experience of RC hobby participants who use have been using lipos for years and not the people who profit by making batteries.
Hello there,
ok ok so here it is: sUAS…batteries I use for the DJI Phantom 3…stock battery x 5…that being said they are maintained in the following manner…first I never did anything with the so called break in period just used them to fly the maximum flight time allowed by the software…I let the software advise as to when to land and recharge where ever the battery ends up via the software …most times because it is via the software it is 11% or so…I did drain 1 battery to critical for testing of the aircraft's disposition on how it handled this situation…it safely landed immediately that battery is performing normally now but did not recharge as normally as before the test or the others and needed special attention …if you read the info on the batteries carefully it tells you to…before charging your SMART battery that is at 95% charged to turn it on before connecting it to your charging system it also says to if needs be to cycle the SMART side of the battery system if for any reason it does not respond or act normally …so I took that to say if you go to charge the battery and for any reason it performs oddly to take it off the charging system .. turn the battery on and then put it back on the charger .. back to the test battery that I used to test the Phantom 3 for how it responded to a critically low battery .. first I have to say that battery was hotter than a normal land at low battery power situation so I did have to let it cool longer before recharging it .. and I had to also turn that battery on to get it to recharge .. I will mention that all battery settings in the app are at default for the pilots that need that info ..the charging system is two 100 w stock DJI chargers that will charge the batteries FAST if needs be .. like in 30_mins from 10 to 11% but and now I am not advertising for or make any money from the manufacture of this product I mostly use and what I mean by that is I only use the 100 w DJI stock chargers if I need to FAST charge a battery or two for a shoot and not for fun or hobby flights.. the battery comes off that charger much hotter that the usual charging system I use that charges at a slower rate of 1c for you tech pilots out there in layman’s terms about an hour or half as fast as the 100 w charger that being said all the batteries at this point are like brand new with many recycles on them including DEEP CYCLES as recommended by DJI and as I stated I did not break them in I run them down to 11 to 10 % every time I fly and then put them in the SMART POWERCHARGER from (see link 1) this thing is why I can do anything with the SMART batteries for the Phantom 3 with little or no problems to date in my opinion … link 2 will give you all the technical details on how this charging system works and can save you money in the long run and as for charging at 1c or slower than the DJI stock 100 w charger that comes with the pro model well you will see that you charge 1 to 4 batteries at ounce with no effect to the time it takes to charge so it is actually faster that a single DJI 100 w charger at 30_mins x 4 = 2_hrs I will close with this observation based on all data to date with this system if I did not use the SMART POWERCHARGER to safely DEEP CYCLE the smart batteries I may be as our fellow pilot that started this tread and be down one battery and think that charging fast has its purposes but you better be getting paid a lot of money to cover your loses or be able to afford new batteries after less or fewer cycles .. it is my opinion we are all test pilots in this fast paced and quickly changing industries of sUAS and must share all the data we can... THIS POST is to HELP my fellow pilots only and is of the equipment used for the data in the post and not to advertise any product .. nothing more nothing less…just-say-in…!!! ;-)
Link: SmartPowerCharge.com Site Product Detail Page
Link:
ok ok so here it is: sUAS…batteries I use for the DJI Phantom 3…stock battery x 5…that being said they are maintained in the following manner…first I never did anything with the so called break in period just used them to fly the maximum flight time allowed by the software…I let the software advise as to when to land and recharge where ever the battery ends up via the software …most times because it is via the software it is 11% or so…I did drain 1 battery to critical for testing of the aircraft's disposition on how it handled this situation…it safely landed immediately that battery is performing normally now but did not recharge as normally as before the test or the others and needed special attention …if you read the info on the batteries carefully it tells you to…before charging your SMART battery that is at 95% charged to turn it on before connecting it to your charging system it also says to if needs be to cycle the SMART side of the battery system if for any reason it does not respond or act normally …so I took that to say if you go to charge the battery and for any reason it performs oddly to take it off the charging system .. turn the battery on and then put it back on the charger .. back to the test battery that I used to test the Phantom 3 for how it responded to a critically low battery .. first I have to say that battery was hotter than a normal land at low battery power situation so I did have to let it cool longer before recharging it .. and I had to also turn that battery on to get it to recharge .. I will mention that all battery settings in the app are at default for the pilots that need that info ..the charging system is two 100 w stock DJI chargers that will charge the batteries FAST if needs be .. like in 30_mins from 10 to 11% but and now I am not advertising for or make any money from the manufacture of this product I mostly use and what I mean by that is I only use the 100 w DJI stock chargers if I need to FAST charge a battery or two for a shoot and not for fun or hobby flights.. the battery comes off that charger much hotter that the usual charging system I use that charges at a slower rate of 1c for you tech pilots out there in layman’s terms about an hour or half as fast as the 100 w charger that being said all the batteries at this point are like brand new with many recycles on them including DEEP CYCLES as recommended by DJI and as I stated I did not break them in I run them down to 11 to 10 % every time I fly and then put them in the SMART POWERCHARGER from (see link 1) this thing is why I can do anything with the SMART batteries for the Phantom 3 with little or no problems to date in my opinion … link 2 will give you all the technical details on how this charging system works and can save you money in the long run and as for charging at 1c or slower than the DJI stock 100 w charger that comes with the pro model well you will see that you charge 1 to 4 batteries at ounce with no effect to the time it takes to charge so it is actually faster that a single DJI 100 w charger at 30_mins x 4 = 2_hrs I will close with this observation based on all data to date with this system if I did not use the SMART POWERCHARGER to safely DEEP CYCLE the smart batteries I may be as our fellow pilot that started this tread and be down one battery and think that charging fast has its purposes but you better be getting paid a lot of money to cover your loses or be able to afford new batteries after less or fewer cycles .. it is my opinion we are all test pilots in this fast paced and quickly changing industries of sUAS and must share all the data we can... THIS POST is to HELP my fellow pilots only and is of the equipment used for the data in the post and not to advertise any product .. nothing more nothing less…just-say-in…!!! ;-)
Link: SmartPowerCharge.com Site Product Detail Page
Link:
Last edited:
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Hello guys!
Just a quick one as we're on the subject of batteries..
In what charge state should you leave them?.. I've gone away for 4 weeks work and they're all sat at 100% at home.. just wondering if this is okay or not??
(P3A)
Thank you!
Just a quick one as we're on the subject of batteries..
In what charge state should you leave them?.. I've gone away for 4 weeks work and they're all sat at 100% at home.. just wondering if this is okay or not??
(P3A)
Thank you!
Hello there,
In the software you can change the SMART battery to discharge its self at different time frames I have the batteries I use at 2 days ...so if I don`t fly for two days the discharging starts automatically to keep the batteries at peek performance by not leaving them at full charge when not using them ...the default setting will start to discharge your batteries for you if you did not change it...I think that is 10 days but look forward to another pilot helping us with that if I am mistaken ...!!! ;-)
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Don't forget that if you want to take 'a peak' at the battery level by pressing the button on top before the auto discharge has started, this will reset the timer and you'll have to wait another 2 days (in your case) for the discharge to commence, so be patient it does work!
I presume that once the discharge process has started, you can press the button all you like and it will not stop the process or reset anything like before.. Is this correct?
Hello there,
Thank you for your input on this subject...I would like to see the SMART battery stay at the forefront of our discussions at Phantom Pilots fore sure as it is our power source for the bird .. your information and all the information that we share here is of the utmost importance in this fast paced world of sUAS ...that being said I was replying to post #46 and would appreciate your input on that post to help that Pilot get all the help we can give .. as to your data on the SMART battery like the default setting in the software for auto discharge to start and anything else you feel relevant...to the question that pilot 92lambie asked I did not see anything in the codex as to the button on the hardware (the battery) in this case one way or the other and would like to review your data base on that if you don`t mind sharing where I can read or find that to look over the triggers to the software both 0 and 1 and the count after compiling the code
Thanks for your help...!!! ;-)
I set my auto discharge to 2 days also and it works fine so long as you leave them alone and don't press the button on top before the discharge starts.
There are plenty of threads on this subject and it has been said many times that pressing the button resets the timer.. Not sure why DJI thought that would be a good idea, but there you have it.
If you charge to 100% then leave for 4 weeks, there's no way to press the button anyway, so auto discharge will commence at whatever the setting is in the DJI app. You should be fine
There are plenty of threads on this subject and it has been said many times that pressing the button resets the timer.. Not sure why DJI thought that would be a good idea, but there you have it.
If you charge to 100% then leave for 4 weeks, there's no way to press the button anyway, so auto discharge will commence at whatever the setting is in the DJI app. You should be fine
I'm new to this forum but I've been flying 3D helis for a few years now and do know quite a bit about lipo batteries.
Firstly, NEVER...EVER...play with a lipo that has got burning hot.
Don't charge it, don't keep it in your house or car, don't ever use it again. It's dropped a cell and it's finished.
If you attempt to use it, you are trying to burn your Phantom down or burn your house down if you charge it. Seriously, the OP is extremely lucky IMHO.
Also, never fly a lipo below 20%.
They drop off voltage fast and whilst this could cause major issues with the Phantom itself in flight, it'll kill the lipo quick smart and at the bare minimum make your IR (Internal Resistance) skyrocket. High IR means shorter flights, less power, more chance of issues when charging or flying and hotter packs that puff more quickly.
Lipo batteries are dangerous. I keep my heli lipos in a garage with a concrete floor and I will do the same for the Phantom units.
I have had lipos drop cells and have seen them go up in flames. Guys at my field have lots of stories...one was that a guy was charging a perfectly good lipo in his car and came back to find his dashboard melted onto the floor of the car and the seat burning...it was a work car too.
My advice is also to never charge them and leave them 100% charged. It creates higher IR far quicker and kills lipos faster.
A storage charge for a lipo is 3.85v or 50%. If you want to store them for a month or so, this is the level to charge them too. If you fly to say 3.77v per cell, then that is fine to leave them like that for a week or so. Just don't go home, charge them up and leave them charged in your house for a week. It will kill your lipos much more quickly plus a charged lipo is more dangerous.
Helis are extremely hard on lipos so heli guys know how to look after lipos to get a decent amount of flights out of them...safely too. I get 50 extremely hard flights and maybe another 50 more moderate flights on a decent lipo. I deplete them to 3.77v in about 3 min flat. We also use powerful high end, digital chargers to help look after them too...I really wish I could use my existing 1200watt charging rig for the P3P lipos!
Firstly, NEVER...EVER...play with a lipo that has got burning hot.
Don't charge it, don't keep it in your house or car, don't ever use it again. It's dropped a cell and it's finished.
If you attempt to use it, you are trying to burn your Phantom down or burn your house down if you charge it. Seriously, the OP is extremely lucky IMHO.
Also, never fly a lipo below 20%.
They drop off voltage fast and whilst this could cause major issues with the Phantom itself in flight, it'll kill the lipo quick smart and at the bare minimum make your IR (Internal Resistance) skyrocket. High IR means shorter flights, less power, more chance of issues when charging or flying and hotter packs that puff more quickly.
Lipo batteries are dangerous. I keep my heli lipos in a garage with a concrete floor and I will do the same for the Phantom units.
I have had lipos drop cells and have seen them go up in flames. Guys at my field have lots of stories...one was that a guy was charging a perfectly good lipo in his car and came back to find his dashboard melted onto the floor of the car and the seat burning...it was a work car too.
My advice is also to never charge them and leave them 100% charged. It creates higher IR far quicker and kills lipos faster.
A storage charge for a lipo is 3.85v or 50%. If you want to store them for a month or so, this is the level to charge them too. If you fly to say 3.77v per cell, then that is fine to leave them like that for a week or so. Just don't go home, charge them up and leave them charged in your house for a week. It will kill your lipos much more quickly plus a charged lipo is more dangerous.
Helis are extremely hard on lipos so heli guys know how to look after lipos to get a decent amount of flights out of them...safely too. I get 50 extremely hard flights and maybe another 50 more moderate flights on a decent lipo. I deplete them to 3.77v in about 3 min flat. We also use powerful high end, digital chargers to help look after them too...I really wish I could use my existing 1200watt charging rig for the P3P lipos!
Flying your battery down to 8 percent even lower is not going to ruine it. I've flown mine down to that and below with absolutely no ill effects change in flight time or performance.
This is unfortunately not correct. Running a lipo to say 3.65v creates high IR values in a far shorter time, creates puffing and stops the pack from 'staying strong' throughout the flight. It'll sag more and this means there is more chance of it sagging to a point that systems could fail or the unit struggles to maintain an adequate level of flight performance/control.
I have no idea what the internal component voltage is on the Phantom series though there will likely be a SBEC type circuit to step down lipo voltage to a level the internal systems use and when this dips below a certain threshold, things might turn off, reboot etc.
Lipo care is a big thing that I see is very much overlooked in this corner of the RC market.
I have no idea what the internal component voltage is on the Phantom series though there will likely be a SBEC type circuit to step down lipo voltage to a level the internal systems use and when this dips below a certain threshold, things might turn off, reboot etc.
Lipo care is a big thing that I see is very much overlooked in this corner of the RC market.
This is depressing news for me to hear. I knew nothing of this, as it wasn't in any of the info that came with my phantom. With my first three flights I took battery down to 10%, 15% and 18% before I found info on this forum shortly after buying. After that I read not to take them down lower than 3.5v and not worry about % so this is what I've done. Typically that ends up being around 20%-26%. Hopefully my first few flights didn't mess up the cells too badly.
I know you said not to fly lower than 20%, but what voltage do you recommend shutting it down at?
Also, how can one look after the remote battery? Is there a recommended point on the LED's that one shouldn't go lower than? What about storage level on it? I haven't seen any info on the remote battery at all.
Like anything it's repetition.
Aim for say 3.75v resting per cell for a happy battery. We all have flights where sometimes you'll out of the blue go under 3.70v but make this the exception and immediately charge back to storage voltage (3.85v) if this happens.
Lipos should last 100 flights; even 200 if you are careful and the lipo was a decent C rating and low IR to start with. Poor care will result in quicker degradation though a new lipo will be fine for say 25 flights even with total abuse. After this performance will reduce progressively (maybe dramatically if it's constantly run dry) so care from the start will mean you'll get more value for your money and have less risk in regards to charging, drifting cells, dropped cells, puffing, premature sag etc.
3.5v per cell is bad news IMHO. No one in the heli game takes their lipos that low. It's the 20% rule.
I even work by 20% on my iPads etc...I have a gen 1 iPad that was used to death and the thing still has amazing battery life...even though I basically can't use it anymore for anything other than movies or eBooks.
)
Does anyone know the C rating of the P3 4S lipo?. I doubt it has one but I imagine it's pretty low.
Aim for say 3.75v resting per cell for a happy battery. We all have flights where sometimes you'll out of the blue go under 3.70v but make this the exception and immediately charge back to storage voltage (3.85v) if this happens.
Lipos should last 100 flights; even 200 if you are careful and the lipo was a decent C rating and low IR to start with. Poor care will result in quicker degradation though a new lipo will be fine for say 25 flights even with total abuse. After this performance will reduce progressively (maybe dramatically if it's constantly run dry) so care from the start will mean you'll get more value for your money and have less risk in regards to charging, drifting cells, dropped cells, puffing, premature sag etc.
3.5v per cell is bad news IMHO. No one in the heli game takes their lipos that low. It's the 20% rule.
I even work by 20% on my iPads etc...I have a gen 1 iPad that was used to death and the thing still has amazing battery life...even though I basically can't use it anymore for anything other than movies or eBooks.
)Does anyone know the C rating of the P3 4S lipo?. I doubt it has one but I imagine it's pretty low.
ditto that
Keywords there "Hobby participants"
Which is why I get all my medical advice from medical message boards rather than going to a doctor. Those doctors are just trying to make a profit through healthcare.
Sounds like the battery had cells that shorted out.....the discharge didn't cause the problem.......the battery was defective to not last longer than 20 charges....all batteries are good to deep discharge every now and then if you don't drain them properly OR just make sure you take them down to 10% before charging and they will be fine......I took 1 to 7% and another to 6% yesterday and they charged fine
Sounds like you had cells short out.....discharging did not cause that problem......if you don't discharge then to around 10% on a regular basis you will need to deep discharge them every now and then so they will take a full charge......I choose to not charge till 10% if possible....also on the app you can look at the individual cells of the battery.....if one is considerably lower than the rest you have a problem......the battery might show it has a charge but the low cell could short to another cell or drain faster than the others which can cause cause a catastrophic failure if you are in flight.....I just ran one down to 6% and another to 7% yesterday and they charged fine....not a good idea to leave these types of batteries on a charger over night.....if a cell shorts to another while charging it can cause a fire as you almost saw
Sounds like you had cells short out.....discharging did not cause that problem......if you don't discharge then to around 10% on a regular basis you will need to deep discharge them every now and then so they will take a full charge......I choose to not charge till 10% if possible....also on the app you can look at the individual cells of the battery.....if one is considerably lower than the rest you have a problem......the battery might show it has a charge but the low cell could short to another cell or drain faster than the others which can cause cause a catastrophic failure if you are in flight.....I just ran one down to 6% and another to 7% yesterday and they charged fine....not a good idea to leave these types of batteries on a charger over night.....if a cell shorts to another while charging it can cause a fire as you almost saw
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