Catastrophic design flaw of Phantom 3

About 15 years ago when I switched to digital cameras there were alot of issues with the Nikons and others. We started a thread with serial numbers and patterns in the issues related to production runs began to be obvious (database was online in a forum) and the manufacturer stepped up to the plate to take care of the repairs. Wondering if anyone would be willing to do that here? Identity the location of the cracks, serial number of the bird and let's start a database? About 50 hours on my bird, SN P76DCF15014174 no signs of any cracks on near the motors or on the arms but will be installing a kit as soon as it arrives.

Andrew
 
Looks to me that the higher torque motors and sending vibrations through the plastic arms. I don't think it has anything to do with hard landings etc. It is primarily a high frequency vibration from the more powerful motors. I am kind of surprised that this wasn't Engineered into the motor mounts in the arms. There always needs to be a dampener between motors and solid mounts, kind of like rubber motor mounts in a car. My Phantom 3 is coming on Monday. I will bring to work and discuss with other Engineers next week and try to come up with something.....
 
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About 15 years ago when I switched to digital cameras there were alot of issues with the Nikons and others. We started a thread with serial numbers and patterns in the issues related to production runs began to be obvious (database was online in a forum) and the manufacturer stepped up to the plate to take care of the repairs. Wondering if anyone would be willing to do that here? Identity the location of the cracks, serial number of the bird and let's start a database? About 50 hours on my bird, SN P76DCF15014174 no signs of any cracks on near the motors or on the arms but will be installing a kit as soon as it arrives.

Andrew


this is a great idea. should start a separate thread with only posts with SN and pics of cracks
 
I just sent my 3DR Solo back this week. All the waiting for the gimbal and all the stories of gimbal problems was just to much. Now I see the cracking on the P3P.:( I guess ill go with a P3P and beef up the thing to try and avoid cracks. Sure beats a gen1 Solo that is not ready for market.


Ok, I didn't hear about that. Well I have to say the most reliable frames Ive use have been are DJI 440 flame-wheels. They take such a punishing and just keep on going after many crashes . I have two of them I use for testing new FCs and firmware. Even so, with a H3-3D Zenmuse gimbal and GoPro they do a great job of vid work and I get fairly close to 12-14min flying on them.
 
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The situation in the market right now it seems that DJI has it cornered pretty well in terms of price to performance. The work around for this weakness is fairly easy and simple as long as you are aware of it up front. If I would have inspected my P3 more closely I'm sure I would have seen cracks before this happened and could have taken steps to reinforce it.

This technology is pretty much bleeding edge and we are all beta testers if you think about it.
 
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I have a bunch of spare brushless motor mounts so I am just going to add them to the bottom under side of the Ph3s motor mounts.

Edit,
I saw someone selling them for $17 then by the time add shipping your up to over $35?! man!

Here are some carbon fiber under reinforcing you can buy on Hobby King for under $5 for a set. I am sure there are other re-seller outlets have them about the same price so take a look around.

Standard type

Disc type

Here is another option. Less than a few bucks, but you might need to do some drilling.
 

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Installed the strong arm kit the other day. Did a 5 minute flgiht mostly just hovering and it seemed even more stable. Just sitting in one spot, pretty amazing. I'm shooting a wedding today with it.
Shouldnt have to buy an additional strenghtener for a new product. The new product should have been thoroughly tested prior to release. Typical CJI.
 
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I had a problem with my P2V where I misjudged my altitude and lost a fight with a tree. I saw the bird drop to the ground and killed the motors. Or so I thought. It landed upside and and two of the motors overheated and caused damage to the the lower shell. The motors should be fuse protected. I ended up replacing the shell, 2 motors, and an ESC. About $180 USD.
 
Both types of propeller guards that I've bought, one removable the other not, reinforce that motor mount location quite well. Another reason to get prop guards.
 
This thread may have literally saved my P3P, I truly thank the OP for posting this. I had major stress crack problems on my P2, ended up having to replace the shell so I was used to looking for stress cracks before every flight, but I did not think to check the frame mount screws as well. One of the screw mounts have completely separated from the frame so the whole arm was held together by the remaining screw.

I added zip ties and will be ordering the strong arm kits for my P3 and P2 today.
 
A good fix for that may be to fly with prop guards 2 allow for secondary plastic reinforcement ! You can still get the bird home and see the cracks if they occur. I fly with them on all the time thinking of what might happen. Very thin plastic to mount to without,my guards add another 1/4 " with longer allen screws.. Hope this helps and very sad to hear of your misfortune.
 
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Over 70 flights and so far no issues and not gentle on mine at all and do full breaking when I stop.
 
I experienced a catastrophic failure to my P3P this morning. Essentially one of the motors of my bird sheared off in flight. I don't think most people realize exactly how the motors are attached (I know I didn't). All that repeated torque, thrust and force of these powerful motors is transferred to a thin layer of plastic less than 1mm thick (see the picture). Who designed this? Plastic will fatigue, crack and soften with heat (the motors can get very hot). Failure was inevitable.

There have been many posts here regarding cracks of the plastic around the motor mounts. When I read them, I inspected my P3 I assumed that since I did not have cracks when I checked two months ago, that I was safe. I wish I had checked before my flight this morning as I would bet I had cracks that had developed.

I would bet that ALL Phantom 3s will eventually have this problem. If you are flying where it is hot like me, I would bet you will have this problem sooner rather than later.

This is now standard issue for my future Phantom's:
Strong Arm reinforcement plate

View attachment 29983 View attachment 29984
I've thought about the Strong Arm Reinforcement Plate but the bigger issue is the four arms of the Phantom flex in flight, not just where the motor mounts are placed. I'm sure the flexion at the end of the Phantom arms is greater at the tip than at the base of each arm. But I'm thinking each arm needs to be reinforced from the base to the tip with the thickness of each arm increased and of constant thickness from base to tip. I'm also wondering if increasing points of contact for each motor shouldn't be added by not only a motor mount on the bottom of each arm, but also something that goes OVER each motor, like a hard polymer bracket, so that the bottom AND top of each arm provides increased support for each motor and increased restraint from the high torque and thrust of these motors.

Frankly, I think DJI would be wise to have their Phantoms put into a static chamber and run tests involving at the minimum, high speed film footage of what exactly happens when these Phantoms are jerked around repeatedly while in captive flight. Real aircraft experience metal fatigue and after so many flight hours, many parts have to be replaced or risk loss or damage to the aircraft. Why not have the same concept for these Phantoms?

I've seen the flight gyrations people put their Phantoms through and despite them stating they were flying them normally, the video proves otherwise. Or, they've jerked it around in the air so much than on flight number XXX, a calm normal flight, polymer fatigue kicks in and they lose the quadcopter to a catastrophic incident that to them seemed to have nothing to do with what they were doing at that moment... where in the past, all their gyrations precipitated this eventuality.

I'm not saying that's what happened here but there has been talk of a CF (Carbon Fiber) shell in the works and the hazards of that for GPS etc.
Something's gotta give here on the part of DJI in their design, I think they need to hire actual aircraft airframe inspectors and their inspection regimes and determine how best to fix this problem and come up with an add-on kit, free I might add, to help eliminate a very expensive issue.

But keep in mind, the bottom line on DJI's part is these Phantoms were designed for calm hobby flights... that'll be their defense but until they install black boxes on their quads, an authorized inspection regimen after so many hours of flight, and airframe inspections, this problem will continue. More importantly, a lot of people are using these quads for work, not play, and if DJI doesn't embrace this issue, they could face Federal backlash in the form of a class action suit knowing full well people are buying their product when they are fully aware of defects in them... just like automobiles... a two pound quad falling out of the air onto someone's head 200 feet below could cause a death or serious brain injury.
 
Not to sure how DJI would react to the consumer law in UK where it says the item has to be fit for purchase which these cracking problems are clearly a not fit for purchase. Anyone that has this sort of problem here in UK should seek 'Trading Standers' office for advice. These rules apply to all goods sold in the UK. Has the USA anything like it?

Wondering how DJI would react if tested with this UK consumer LAW. I'm glad I bought my P3A from a dealer over here rather than buying from DJI. If tested I have the backing of the dealer to talk to DJI.
 
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Or it could be that DJI had a bad batch of plastic shells.
Not all Phantoms have developed shell cracks. Maybe some never will.
I would be interesting to know if any cracks were visible on yours prior to the crash.
Are there any cracks visible on the other arms?
How many hours has it flown?
Moderator,
It is obvious that you are most likely a DJI employee as they use the "bad batch" excuse for everything.
They use the "bad batch" reason for my P3 remote not being able to update firmware as well.
The thing that makes me angry is that they want me to send it in so they can take 8 weeks to fix my problem.
This will be the first and last DJI product I purchase. For them not to do an advanced replacement for me when they know mine is brand new is terrible customer service!
Sorry for rambling but I'm very dissappount3d in DJI right now.
 
... They use the "bad batch" reason for my P3 remote not being able to update firmware as well. ...
What firmware version do you currently have in the RC?
What firmware version do you currently have in the P3?
Do you have the A or B version of the RC?
 
Moderator,
It is obvious that you are most likely a DJI employee as they use the "bad batch" excuse for everything.
They use the "bad batch" reason for my P3 remote not being able to update firmware as well.
The thing that makes me angry is that they want me to send it in so they can take 8 weeks to fix my problem.
This will be the first and last DJI product I purchase. For them not to do an advanced replacement for me when they know mine is brand new is terrible customer service!
Sorry for rambling but I'm very dissappount3d in DJI right now.
Are you sure that you're doing the correct procedure to update before to say that is a defective rc? Because also my rc at the beginning seems to me that has problems to update but with patience I've been able to update without problems.
 
You've just a little bit more than stress cracks...have you crashed the bird?

Yes I was astounded with all those stress cracks on the motor mounts, the other three were all much the same and some worse than this one in the photo. These were not all from a recent crash that for sure. It obviously had been flying like this for some time

This is a shell of a Ph2 Vision from a repair job I did for someone where I replaced the whole shell. This was found lying upside down on top of a 6 stack of 40' shipping containers in as container yard

I kept the shell to use to scan and 3D print my own "remix" shell at some stage, And! with beefed up motor mounts! .
 
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