msinger
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Battery Question
- Thread starter Roaddogg
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Im talking about Batteries - tbh I don't give a **** if they are Li Po or any other name - I want to be able to charge my batteries to their maximum - and have them stay charged for the next possible opportunity to use them. Already we don't get the full flying time out of each battery - there must be some way of keeping them charged ready for use when the opportunity arises - we don't always get hours of notice for an opportunity
msinger
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So, I guess you're suggesting that DJI use a different type of battery?
By design, Li-Po batteries should not be left fully charged for extended periods of time. There's no getting around that one.
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I think DJI should use the best possible battery technology - what I'm saying is that in everything else I use the batteries seem to hold their charge of not used for a while
I ran into this exact scenario yesterday afternoon. Was coming home from a late meeting around 7:30 pm and there was a beautiful sunset building. Only problem was that I had 3 batteries sitting at around 60% so no way to get them charged up in time to get in the air to get some photos. Would be awesome to be able to have batteries charged and ready to go at short notice. I guess it is what it is though.
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So with batteries dropping daily and the bird auto landing at around 20% doesn't leave a great deal of flight time / range .....
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msinger
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Agreed. Why would everyone be doing the same thing if it's not the best technology available? Or, maybe the best technology available is not cost effective?
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I've been dealing with LiPO batteries for many yrs now (bike lights, other RC devices, etc.) and screwed quite a few in the process of learning the better way to care for them. I still do I admit, I like to test and experiment but overall I've now settled for the following, and this has proved to work alright for P3 (and Inspire) intelligent batteries as well. I'll share what I've learned but I advise everyone to search for the endless knowledge already established on LiPOs available on the internet, taking into consideration that the P3 smart battery has its particularities.
LiPOs don't like extreme cold or heat. Both affect lifetime and usage time, so try to avoid those conditions OR keep that in mind if you can't, accounting for variations and using good judgement.
LiPOs have a lifetime set in CYCLES, that is charge-discharge cycles. Those are limited. If you're using them frequently that's perfectly fine to keep charging-discharging-charging as you wish because that's what the batteries are for anyway, and in fact that's when LiPOs are the most happy too. Otherwise, try to manage your cycles in order to avoid unnecessary charges and/or discharges as those will eat up lifetime without the benefit of use.
That lifetime is related to a few things too. Some are beyond our reach like build (cell) quality and in the case of the P3, also balancing of cells since it's done in a basic way by the "smart" processor of the battery (in other RC devices we do all that cell conditioning process using voltage meters and computerized chargers that also read IR - internal resistance and other stuff). But we can avoid simple things like frequent deep discharges, extreme cold and/or heat, and we can keep a close tab on general battery and cell condition by using programs like HealthyDrones or other of preference. It's OK to push a good quality LiPO here and there (though it can damage cell, keep that in mind), but basically, the more "linear" the use and care of a LiPO, the longer and more stable tends to be its life. I stick to that with my DJI smart batteries since I'm not able to care for cell conditioning like I do with my other LiPOs, and all my DJI batteries are in optimal overall condition.
If you're not using them for longer periods (which is generally considered anything from 7, 10 or more days - opinions vary, for me a long period is above 30 days) it's best to keep them at around 50%, either by actively (i.e. flying) discharging them, or charging up to that level if below. No need to obsess about hitting precisely 50%, anything in that ballpark is fine. It's also fine to store at 30 or 40% for a few days, but if you leave it at that for too long you risk deep discharging. It's also OK to store a LiPO at 100% for a few days, but try not to push that because it may force the cells and mess with IR which ultimately defines the battery condition and thus affect lifetime.
Now this is up to each pilot and opinions vary a lot, but I prefer to take off at 96 or 97% even if my battery was charged a few days ago, than topping it off before flying very time. I do that even if I have a filming contract to perform, without fear. Topping the battery won't exactly "eat" cycles but even though DJI explicitly recommends doing it, I for myself prefer to use a full discharge cycle and then charging up to whatever level I need (storage short or long, or use). Some say to have had problems taking off at less than 100% but IMHO it's not due to being bellow 100%, there are so many other potential factors to cause issues with batteries and the P3 that it's almost impossible to point that with an acceptable leve of accuracy.
It's OK to do multiple flights on one charge up to around 20-30%, I do that even when taking off at less than 100% (I try to land around that level most times myself). But only if I'm doing them all close by or in the same day. I've done 6 or 7 short flights on one charge without problems, but I know the conditions of all my batteries by keeping track of levels, cycles and cell condition so I know how they perform in general and what to expect. It's like a car or a bicycle, if you use it good and do your maintenance and you know your device then it's less likely to suffer a sudden problem. Yes, unexpected problems can still happen but it will give warnings and you're close by to see the signs, that's good to both avoid issues and accidents and/or find out the causes if something does happen.
Now I'll talk about why I do a few things differently from advised by DJI in their manuals, so you can judge for yourself what's the best path to care for your P3 and its batteries. I personally find DJI smart battery of "good" quality (not top level, but certainly not low, IMO decidedly above average). In fact, I consider the P3 a very advanced, capable and reliable machine overall: there's nothing quite like the Lightbridge out there, and IMHO overall build (motors, design, boards, gimbal, etc.) are of a high standard, considering it is a consumer drone, and above all, its cost.
There are endless debates about this and some consider the battery to be below spec for many reasons. Fair enough. I take into account the P3 is not a racing or 3D drone, even though it can do high speed and agile maneuvers and those usually demand high power - and for longer periods than most other quads or ACs. It is not a hobbyist AC that demands A LOT MORE care and attention, believe me on that one, so I understand DJI does what it believes best to make instructions rather simple, clear, uniform and generalized so the majority of users can benefit the most from it. It's good to follow them if not for warranty matters, but if you know your AC and has some knowledge you can do a few things on your own too without increasing risk levels.
The smart processor is not up to the level of a good, computerized charger like the ones we use for LiPO conditioning but it's decent and does its job. Some criticize the telemetry and accuracy of voltage and percentage algorithms but honestly, that's a really tough trick to pull with the expected level of accuracy due to the very nature of LiPOs and chemicals/batteries in general. I for myself find it quite reliable if we take everything into account, I've been dealing with LiPOs for quite a while and never found any device with even a close-to-perfect reading and averaging, not even professional, high-end, intensive-engineering devices. Maybe NASA and advanced aviation have a 100% battery management and reading system, but if they do then it certainly cost in the millions and weight in the tons so what's the point. So again putting things in the perspective the P3 has a very good and rather reliable telemetry and battery management accuracy. IMHO good enough for the intended use, if cells are OK and everything is taken good care of and used accordingly.
That said, I also use the established, accepted method in RC: I time my flights. In most other RC toys we measure battery voltage right after landing, we use computerized chargers to read IR and balance cells and all, so we have a very strong finger on the pulse of most our batteries. But we don't have this real-time measurement and average, so we time our flights. I brought that from the hobby and still keep an eye out for flight time, constantly judging it against cell voltage (turn it on if you're using GO app), battery %, wind, etc. That's good habit in my opinion, it doesn't hurt and helps with learning RC.
I still don't get the auto-discharge feature as it would demand some sort of discharger which means something to transform or dissipate the stored energy, but anyway if DJI says it does discharge itself then all the best. I've set mine to 10 days so I can manage discharge myself in whatever manner, but that's up to the each one. Either way, LiPOs do lose charge slowly over time. Even hours, if your LiPO is left at 100% it won't be 100% at take off, so I don't get paranoid. First "loss" is (usually) higher and quicker, then it slows down and after a few days it will lose around 3, 4 or 5% at most. Still fine to fly in my book, I always did with every battery and still do with DJI's.
Please take into account that LiPO cells are chemicals, so despite a high level of QC during build it may vary. break-in, use conditions, climate, etc. also affect batteries, it's normal. Of course it varies even more the lower the quality of the battery, but it's not 100% uniform so mine may be a little different than yours. I've seen variations even in same-batch super-high-end batteries, so now I'm not crazy about it anymore. Some variations can only be noticed through the use of high-end computerized chargers, but I'm fine with DJI's level of accuracy and build so I'm cool taking off at 97% after 5 days from charge, for instance. It's also OK if you;re not and prefer to top off your batteries prior to flying your P3.
Sorry for the long post and enjoy your quads!
LiPOs don't like extreme cold or heat. Both affect lifetime and usage time, so try to avoid those conditions OR keep that in mind if you can't, accounting for variations and using good judgement.
LiPOs have a lifetime set in CYCLES, that is charge-discharge cycles. Those are limited. If you're using them frequently that's perfectly fine to keep charging-discharging-charging as you wish because that's what the batteries are for anyway, and in fact that's when LiPOs are the most happy too. Otherwise, try to manage your cycles in order to avoid unnecessary charges and/or discharges as those will eat up lifetime without the benefit of use.
That lifetime is related to a few things too. Some are beyond our reach like build (cell) quality and in the case of the P3, also balancing of cells since it's done in a basic way by the "smart" processor of the battery (in other RC devices we do all that cell conditioning process using voltage meters and computerized chargers that also read IR - internal resistance and other stuff). But we can avoid simple things like frequent deep discharges, extreme cold and/or heat, and we can keep a close tab on general battery and cell condition by using programs like HealthyDrones or other of preference. It's OK to push a good quality LiPO here and there (though it can damage cell, keep that in mind), but basically, the more "linear" the use and care of a LiPO, the longer and more stable tends to be its life. I stick to that with my DJI smart batteries since I'm not able to care for cell conditioning like I do with my other LiPOs, and all my DJI batteries are in optimal overall condition.
If you're not using them for longer periods (which is generally considered anything from 7, 10 or more days - opinions vary, for me a long period is above 30 days) it's best to keep them at around 50%, either by actively (i.e. flying) discharging them, or charging up to that level if below. No need to obsess about hitting precisely 50%, anything in that ballpark is fine. It's also fine to store at 30 or 40% for a few days, but if you leave it at that for too long you risk deep discharging. It's also OK to store a LiPO at 100% for a few days, but try not to push that because it may force the cells and mess with IR which ultimately defines the battery condition and thus affect lifetime.
Now this is up to each pilot and opinions vary a lot, but I prefer to take off at 96 or 97% even if my battery was charged a few days ago, than topping it off before flying very time. I do that even if I have a filming contract to perform, without fear. Topping the battery won't exactly "eat" cycles but even though DJI explicitly recommends doing it, I for myself prefer to use a full discharge cycle and then charging up to whatever level I need (storage short or long, or use). Some say to have had problems taking off at less than 100% but IMHO it's not due to being bellow 100%, there are so many other potential factors to cause issues with batteries and the P3 that it's almost impossible to point that with an acceptable leve of accuracy.
It's OK to do multiple flights on one charge up to around 20-30%, I do that even when taking off at less than 100% (I try to land around that level most times myself). But only if I'm doing them all close by or in the same day. I've done 6 or 7 short flights on one charge without problems, but I know the conditions of all my batteries by keeping track of levels, cycles and cell condition so I know how they perform in general and what to expect. It's like a car or a bicycle, if you use it good and do your maintenance and you know your device then it's less likely to suffer a sudden problem. Yes, unexpected problems can still happen but it will give warnings and you're close by to see the signs, that's good to both avoid issues and accidents and/or find out the causes if something does happen.
Now I'll talk about why I do a few things differently from advised by DJI in their manuals, so you can judge for yourself what's the best path to care for your P3 and its batteries. I personally find DJI smart battery of "good" quality (not top level, but certainly not low, IMO decidedly above average). In fact, I consider the P3 a very advanced, capable and reliable machine overall: there's nothing quite like the Lightbridge out there, and IMHO overall build (motors, design, boards, gimbal, etc.) are of a high standard, considering it is a consumer drone, and above all, its cost.
There are endless debates about this and some consider the battery to be below spec for many reasons. Fair enough. I take into account the P3 is not a racing or 3D drone, even though it can do high speed and agile maneuvers and those usually demand high power - and for longer periods than most other quads or ACs. It is not a hobbyist AC that demands A LOT MORE care and attention, believe me on that one, so I understand DJI does what it believes best to make instructions rather simple, clear, uniform and generalized so the majority of users can benefit the most from it. It's good to follow them if not for warranty matters, but if you know your AC and has some knowledge you can do a few things on your own too without increasing risk levels.
The smart processor is not up to the level of a good, computerized charger like the ones we use for LiPO conditioning but it's decent and does its job. Some criticize the telemetry and accuracy of voltage and percentage algorithms but honestly, that's a really tough trick to pull with the expected level of accuracy due to the very nature of LiPOs and chemicals/batteries in general. I for myself find it quite reliable if we take everything into account, I've been dealing with LiPOs for quite a while and never found any device with even a close-to-perfect reading and averaging, not even professional, high-end, intensive-engineering devices. Maybe NASA and advanced aviation have a 100% battery management and reading system, but if they do then it certainly cost in the millions and weight in the tons so what's the point. So again putting things in the perspective the P3 has a very good and rather reliable telemetry and battery management accuracy. IMHO good enough for the intended use, if cells are OK and everything is taken good care of and used accordingly.
That said, I also use the established, accepted method in RC: I time my flights. In most other RC toys we measure battery voltage right after landing, we use computerized chargers to read IR and balance cells and all, so we have a very strong finger on the pulse of most our batteries. But we don't have this real-time measurement and average, so we time our flights. I brought that from the hobby and still keep an eye out for flight time, constantly judging it against cell voltage (turn it on if you're using GO app), battery %, wind, etc. That's good habit in my opinion, it doesn't hurt and helps with learning RC.
I still don't get the auto-discharge feature as it would demand some sort of discharger which means something to transform or dissipate the stored energy, but anyway if DJI says it does discharge itself then all the best. I've set mine to 10 days so I can manage discharge myself in whatever manner, but that's up to the each one. Either way, LiPOs do lose charge slowly over time. Even hours, if your LiPO is left at 100% it won't be 100% at take off, so I don't get paranoid. First "loss" is (usually) higher and quicker, then it slows down and after a few days it will lose around 3, 4 or 5% at most. Still fine to fly in my book, I always did with every battery and still do with DJI's.
Please take into account that LiPO cells are chemicals, so despite a high level of QC during build it may vary. break-in, use conditions, climate, etc. also affect batteries, it's normal. Of course it varies even more the lower the quality of the battery, but it's not 100% uniform so mine may be a little different than yours. I've seen variations even in same-batch super-high-end batteries, so now I'm not crazy about it anymore. Some variations can only be noticed through the use of high-end computerized chargers, but I'm fine with DJI's level of accuracy and build so I'm cool taking off at 97% after 5 days from charge, for instance. It's also OK if you;re not and prefer to top off your batteries prior to flying your P3.
Sorry for the long post and enjoy your quads!
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OMG, are you serious. That was a novel! About batteries, not how to build one like Macguiver out of toothpicks and a fork, really!? Lol
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Alex,
Do you know anything about the battery history part of the DJI Go application? I can open it up but darned if I can figure out how to get a battery added to the inventory.
