Anyone (else) doing Security patrols with sUAV?

[Cellblock776]

I see a lot of "public safety" agencies adopting UAVs for doing law enforcement and fire scene uses. What I don't see a lot is using them for regular patrols and surveillance in a private security role.
I work for the Public Safety (security) department of a large hospital system. Our Officers not only conduct foot and vehicle patrols but many are also International Police Mountain Bike Association certified and conduct bike patrols of our properties and the nearby areas.
I was sent by my department to a class to help me get my Part 107. The Public Safety department purchased a Phantom 4 Pro Plus, the Falcon Edition from Drone World, which I use doing routine patrol flights over our properties looking for criminal activity, policy violations or safety issues. As far as we know, we were the first hospital security department in the US to incorporate UAVs into our operations.
We have used the Phantom, BRGH Air One, for public events and to promote our security and safety operations to staff and the public.
Videos like this were part of our public relations campaign,

I've seen a few rather amateur looking videos of security guards flying drones around construction sites and storage yards, mostly in Europe, and a couple of videos produced by G4S regarding using UAVs but nothing like we are doing and none being used in hospital settings.
Is what we are doing uncommon for security or is it just not getting a lot of press?

 

[WV. Rootman]

Drones are noisy. They have a wide field of vision. I find those two points to be a inhibitor to helping with your security efforts. Check it sometime. See how the height versus noise level relates to being able to view people on the ground below. It can definitely be used for security, but has it's parameters to work in. You have to follow Faa guidelines. Lots of people around a hospital.

 

[WV. Rootman]

I see a lot of "public safety" agencies adopting UAVs for doing law enforcement and fire scene uses. What I don't see a lot is using them for regular patrols and surveillance in a private security role.
I work for the Public Safety (security) department of a large hospital system. Our Officers not only conduct foot and vehicle patrols but many are also International Police Mountain Bike Association certified and conduct bike patrols of our properties and the nearby areas.
I was sent by my department to a class to help me get my Part 107. The Public Safety department purchased a Phantom 4 Pro Plus, the Falcon Edition from Drone World, which I use doing routine patrol flights over our properties looking for criminal activity, policy violations or safety issues. As far as we know, we were the first hospital security department in the US to incorporate UAVs into our operations.
We have used the Phantom, BRGH Air One, for public events and to promote our security and safety operations to staff and the public.
Videos like this were part of our public relations campaign,

I've seen a few rather amateur looking videos of security guards flying drones around construction sites and storage yards, mostly in Europe, and a couple of videos produced by G4S regarding using UAVs but nothing like we are doing and none being used in hospital settings.
Is what we are doing uncommon for security or is it just not getting a lot of press?

Sorry things are that bad there.

 

[Cellblock776]

Drones are noisy. They have a wide field of vision. I find those two points to be a inhibitor to helping with your security efforts. Check it sometime. See how the height versus noise level relates to being able to view people on the ground below. It can definitely be used for security, but has it's parameters to work in. You have to follow Faa guidelines. Lots of people around a hospital.

FAA Guidelines are always followed.
You say that "drones are noisy". I agree that a UAV like the Phantom does produce a bit of noise but at the average altitude of 100 to 150 or 200 feet AGL you would be surprised how little attention it attracts. Most people don't even realize that is is flying overhead as it tends to blend into traffic noise and other background noise common in the city. That said, the noise is a benefit as the UAV, when heard, lets people know that it is there, that they are potentially being watched and it serves as a deterrence to negative behavior. This is similar to why we often conduct our mobile patrols with the light bar on the roof flashing.
You mentioned the wide field of vision. Yep. That is a good thing in that we can observe more but I have been vocal on many sites lamenting the fact that DJI seems unwilling to look past cinematography cameras and give us like a FLIR thermal camera and a short range digital zoom on the Phantom model. While the camera image is great, we really desire the ability to be able to stay up at ~150' yet zoom in (say 3 or 5 x magnification) to see what a subject is carrying. Situations like when we make contact with vagrants on our properties are dangerous and it would be beneficial to be able see what is in their hands before our officers approach.
The UAV is great for patrols and a good way to observe and document but with a short range zoom and maybe an option to switch to Thermal without having to bump up to a larger, heavier platform such as in Inspire or Matrice it would be even better.
We have recently used this video to point out some of those pros and cons,

 

[Cellblock776]

Sorry things are that bad there.

I'm not sure what you mean by things being bad there. Things are pretty good. We are a very proactive department. We hire professionals with police and relevant military experience and several of our Public Safety Officers are commissioned LEOs with nearby agencies. Our hospital decided several years ago that it did not want a typical "observe and report" private security guard service. As the South Baton Rouge Health District, LINK-> Welcome , moves toward a consolidated security plan among multiple hospitals and medical clinics, and eventually a Special Police district, our Public Safety department is taking the lead with alarm response and certifications with the goal of being what will become the Healthcare District Police department.
This proactive, high visibility approach means that we have very little criminal activity. The people who usually get up to no good talk among each other and the word on the street is to go somewhere else to act a nut. Vehicle break-ins or vandalism is extremely rare. Theft and physical assaults rarely happen and when it does it is almost always in a patient care area with a disorderly visitor or psych patient. Our PSOs respond immediately and in force which tends to prevent things from escalating out of hand.
Our previous Directors included the former Chief of Baton Rouge PD and an administrator who formed and ran private hospital police departments. Our current Director is a former Secret Service agent who worked for one of the largest hospital systems in Florida and a major insurance agency. This is him,

.
In that video I am shown at the 1:12 mark in dispatch showing him something on my monitors.
So, are things bad there? Nope. Not at all. And we intend to make sure things never get bad.

 

[macoman]

I am not a Walkera drone owner but the Walkera Voyager 4 is to me a perfect drone for security purposes because of their 18x zoom in technology. You can be far away and you can zoom in a suspect or a suspicious activity without been seem. If you look at videos of the drone from YouTube in action of the zoom in capability. I haven't ever seen another drone maker with this capability. Very good for security purposes.

 

[Cellblock776]

Macoman, I have researched the Walkera and like the zoom and it looks like a pretty good UAV but, I'm worried that Walkera is having to lay off staff and might not last past the year. Right now DJI seems to be the most stable and most likely to stick around. That was pretty much what kept me from leaning to far toward recommending a Walkera to my Director for our next purchase.
Thanks for the advice.

 

[Craig Flys]

Cellblock776, those are some great videos. Good job on the security there also.

 

[Cellblock776]

Cellblock776, those are some great videos. Good job on the security there also.

Thanks. We are doing our best. Over the past year we have found that our Phantom UAV is a great tool for spotting stuff going on around our campus but, with a few extras like a short range zoom or thermal we'd be able to do more.
Like in this video, where I can get close and get a pretty decent view of people, I have to get very close and low to them, below 100'. I'd prefer to stay back further and higher and zoom in and then direct my Officers into the area. This was just a typical Saturday of flying around the hospital,

 

[ravedog]

After watching the first video, I can’t reconcile some things you said. You say you are part 107 cert’d but that campus it too large to patrol with drones as you’ll be out of VLOS very quickly: too much going on on the campus landscaping and architectural wise to maintain vlos.
Unless your operator is following the drivers be around.


Then there’s the battery issue. I guess it’s not an issue if you are constantly changing and charging them.

The hospital have a Heliport?

Over People?

FOV?

This is a hospital. A place for people to heal and visitors to provide support and staff who provide service. This whole thing makes me feel uneasy like I would be spied upon if I did anything you deemed “worth checking out”. It’s creepy and feels like a police state.

I think your desire to use toys to turn your security into some futuristic fantasy outweigh safety and practical concerns.

 

[Cellblock776]

After watching the video, I can’t reconcile some things you said. You say you are part 107 cert’d but that campus it too large to patrol with drones as you’ll be out of VLOS very quickly: too much going on on the campus landscaping and architectural wise to maintain vlos.
Unless your operator is following the drivers be around.


Then there’s the battery issue. I guess it’s not an issue if you are constantly changing and charging them.

The hospital have a Heliport?

Over People?

FOV?

I think your desire to use toys to turn your security into some futuristic fantasy outweigh safety and practical concerns.

VLOS is not a problem as you can see that I either move from place to place in a mobile, or most of the time I take off and land from the top of our 6 story patient tower so I always have the UAV in VLOS. I can stand on top of Patient Tower B which is six stories high and see 360 degrees for at least half a mile.
Batteries are not an issue. We ordered the Falcon Edition, Drone World , and we ordered extra batteries. I get on the roof, pop the case open and have at least 6 batteries ready to go every time I fly.
Yes, the hospital has a Heliport. We are the regional Burn Center for the State. We only get a helicopter every couple of days. And I would get a call over the radio telling me it was coming long before it gets in my air space.
There aren't lots of crowds of people. We are flying patrols and mostly seeing singles or pairs. I stay off to the side or rear of them.
FOV? Again, not as big of danger as most of the internet drone police make it out to be. I don't hover over busy streets. I am mostly flying over parking lots where the majority of vehicles are "parked".
We don't see it as a toy or futuristic fantasy. We operate in safe and practical ways.

 

[ravedog]

Sounds fair but I still think it’s still creepy. I hear a drone or see one and it’s “checking me out” i feel surveilled or that I’m a suspect. It’s unnerving.

 

[Cellblock776]

Sounds fair but I still think it’s still creepy. I hear a drone or see one and it’s “checking me out” i feel surveilled or that I’m a suspect. It’s unnerving.

No more unnerving than a Ford Police Interceptor SUV riding slowly through the parking lot you just pulled into or the guy on the bicycle wearing the pistol belt pedaling slowly past you as you walk to your doctors office. The UAV is just another means of watching the property from another point of view.
Yes it is a hospital but creepy people go there and do creepy stuff. We have made felony arrests for people stealing over $500 worth of items from our Gift Shop or Doctors offices. We have people coming onto our campus to violate restraining orders. We have people showing up and doing drugs. I personally have found a guy passed out in the front seat of his car with a needle still in his arm in one of our parking lots. We recently had our offices check out a vehicle in a parking lot and find a guy and his wife ODing inside and rushed them both to our ER. Stuff happens and we intend to keep a visible presence to prevent as much as possible. You can say that it is supposed to be a place for healing. Our Motto is "Protecting those who are healing and those who heal". But the reality is, it is like a small city with a diverse population of hundreds or thousands who bring their personal issues and drama with them. So we plan and prepare to respond adequately. If your wife or daughter showed up to visit a patient or to go to an appointment wouldn't you want to know that the "security department" was using every tool available to make sure that they were safe and not allowing people to just loiter and creep around waiting to rob or rape people like your wife or daughter?

 

[ravedog]

Completely disagree. Drones represent something more than the cruiser or bike cop. it’s unnerving because being both louden extremely piercing and because it’s “futuristic” it can psychologically feel extremely police state.

I would think in a hospital setting you’d want to melt into the background as to let the place be a hospital. Your mission statement and overt approach is a direct conflict with that of your employer. It’s not a compound with a hospital in it. It’s a hospital first and foremost and I think you need to think about their mission statement before making yours the one front and center.

Even your video and your comments here allude to this type of surveillance as a deterrent. It’s gross.

I realize you’re in security and that’s your POV but I’m curious what patients, med staff and visitors think about such a program. Has anyone done that study? Tried to strike a balance?

I think you are constructing to the surveillance state and not in s good way.

 

[Cellblock776]

Yes, we have done studies and questionnaires and outreach as seen in the first video I posted here. Our staff for the most part have been positive and when the UAV is not flying for a period of time we will get people asking why they haven't seen it lately.
The public has approached us on several occasions to ask about it and 9 out of 10 times it's "I feel so much better knowing that you guys are out here watching over us" or "my husband has been here for a week and we have seen the drone fly around several days and love knowing that it's watching things".
I believe that your comments are actually a symptom of the problem. You see the "drones" as creepy, futuristic and a symbol of a "police state". You seem to be part of that group of people who are on the news talking about shooting down the neighbors drone because it was flying over the house next door taking photos of hail damage on the roof.
You think that we should "melt into the background" but as our Public Safety Director stated in the video I posted with him, his mission is to bring the "security department" quote "Out of the shadows" and put us out front and center to deter and prevent things from occurring in the first place. We want a show of force where we declare that our property is not a soft target or a place where criminals can come and get away with stuff. And citizens can come to relax and feel protected.

 

[ravedog]

I seem to be this ? I seem to be that. Don’t make it personal. I’m merely bringing up that things ARE becoming a surveillance state and that’s not tinfoil hattery. It’s the new normal. Everything you state in your last message confirms this by being front and center.

I’m not for lack of order. I think understand the reality of crime today. I just think there has to be a better way.

And as far as shooting down a drone? Are you ******* kidding me? I’m a drone operator and I love flying. So much so I go away from anyone as to not disturb them cuz let’s face it. They can be loud and annoying.

You lost all credibility by trying to broad brush me with assumptions that you know nothing about.

I merely pointed out concerns about surveillance which contradict your mission so you got personal. Well done. I’m done

 

[WV. Rootman]

I think it is a cultural thing. Like in my early statement. With all the security it appears you have high crime. Here in West Virginia we have so few people. we don't have to have such high security.

 

[Cellblock776]

I think it is a cultural thing. Like in my early statement. With all the security it appears you have high crime. Here in West Virginia we have so few people. we don't have to have such high security.

We have to be ready for whatever comes through our doors. We get distraught family members who act out. We get people using/abusing alcohol and drugs who assault staff and patients. We have psych patients come and go and we have the local homeless population showing up and committing crimes of opportunity. We have had at least 2 shootings at our hospitals since I have worked there.
In one a guy showed up after visiting hours, requested to go to a patient room. One of my coworkers called up and got permission to allow the guy up and escorted him to an elevator to the proper floor. Once there he entered the patient room, pulled a gun and opened fire. Link to story here-> 2 shot at Baton Rouge hospital early Friday

More recently we had a woman show up in the middle of the night saying she was in labor. Once in the Birth Center she told her nurse that she had been kidnapped by the guy in the waiting area. Our Public Safety Officers arrived, detained and cuffed the guy and did a search but the suspect had hidden a pistol in a chair which they sat him in while they waited for the BR PD to arrive. While in the waiting area the cuffed suspect managed to get the gun out of the chair cushion and shoot himself. Link-> BRPD: Man shoots himself in hospital waiting area of BRG Bluebonnet, after abducting pregnant woman

Just this month we got a call of a visitor in the ICU who was clearly intoxicated and possibly high. Our officers removed him from the property and a few hours later he returned to our campus. A Public Safety Officer saw him in the parking lot, approached and made contact and the man pulled a knife on the PSO. The Officer, a certified Taser instructor and use of force instructor, fired his Taser twice and incapacitated the subject, cuffed him and then took him to our ER for treatment.

This is not something we can ignore. We have our officers out there as well as the UAV in a very public display of force. I have hours of video footage of officer involved detainments and fights recorded in our Security Operations Center.
Foot patrols, bike patrols and vehicle patrols are common place. Camera surveillance is taken for granted. The UAV is simply another component that is used to watch things and let people know it's being watched.

I posted this thread knowing how popular our UAV patrols have become and was wondering if other Security professionals have making routine use of them and how they are being used. I have presented the ways we utilize our UAV at our facilities and discussed what we want to do our job a little better.

 

[Cellblock776]

I seem to be this ? I seem to be that. Don’t make it personal. I’m merely bringing up that things ARE becoming a surveillance state and that’s not tinfoil hattery. It’s the new normal. Everything you state in your last message confirms this by being front and center.

I’m not for lack of order. I think understand the reality of crime today. I just think there has to be a better way.

And as far as shooting down a drone? Are you ******* kidding me? I’m a drone operator and I love flying. So much so I go away from anyone as to not disturb them cuz let’s face it. They can be loud and annoying.

You lost all credibility by trying to broad brush me with assumptions that you know nothing about.

I merely pointed out concerns about surveillance which contradict your mission so you got personal. Well done. I’m done

I'm sorry that you took my reply as me getting personal. That is not how I meant it. I was addressing your use of stereotypical words/phrases such as "creepy", "futuristic" and descriptions such as "Extremely loud and piercing". About the only thing was missing was the old favorite, "It was taking pictures of my daughter in her swimsuit in our back yard".

You stated, Quote- "Your mission statement and overt approach is a direct conflict with that of your employer."
That is not true at all. In fact, as you saw in the profile of our Director, we are a very overt department. We are "out of the shadows" and in the public eye. I am being sent out more than ever to fly patrols. The video of Handling the Panhandler came from a day I was paid overtime to stay after my normal shift and get in some flying time around campus. I was told last week that the Administration is not seeing the UAV in use enough and wants it flying even more. Starting in April I will be flying a Minimum of 3 hours a day, 3 days a week (more if weather permits) and will get 8 hours overtime a month for staying overshift or flying on my days off.

You did have one thing right. It IS the new normal. Or it soon will be. A year ago we decided to stick our toe in the water to learn how a UAV could benefit our security efforts. It has been a huge success. So much so that we are about to send another officer to the 3 day UAV class I attended last year and we are looking at getting a 2nd UAV with more features and payload such as an Inspire or Matrice model.

I came here to find out if this is something other security departments/agencies/companies are doing and how it is working out for them and to make others aware of what we have been doing with our UAV.

Again, nothing I said was meant to be personal toward you.

 

[Cellblock776]

It was a lovely morning for flying today. I was up on the roof again flying my patrols as usual and decided to get a "selfie" as I was heading in to swap batteries. I'm back inside now and the batteries and controller are getting recharged for the next time which will probably be tomorrow afternoon.