altitude changed?

[With The Birds]

That's impossible on 90% of my flights! That suggestion isn't much help.

Here's quick clip I shot today, my last flight of the year. I couldn't see the drone because of the weeds. I'm down to about 2' above the water capturing these birds in the riverbed. VPS goes a bit bonkers with moving water. It occasionally wants to ascend when I get too close to the water. It's best to leave VPS off and fly ultra slow when that low.

Note: clip is still uploading. View it in 3hrs for 4K support.

4K? Did I read right? Your shooting in 4K? Happy new year

 

[John Locke]

4K? Did I read right? Your shooting in 4K? Happy new year

Yeah, I finally got a computer that can handle 4k. It's a year-end write off and Christmas gift to me.

It's almost mid-night and I can't decide where I'm going to fly next year (tomorrow).

Happy New Year everyone!

 

[andy_k]

That's impossible on 90% of my flights! That suggestion isn't much help.

Isn't VLOS a requirement for hobby flights in the USA? I only ask because it is over here.

 

[John Locke]

Isn't VLOS a requirement for hobby flights in the USA? I only ask because it is over here.

Yes, that's the FAA guideline, but with the 4+ mile range of the P4P I'm guessing over half the pilots fly well beyond the 2500' visual range, which is about the limit of normal vision to see a phantom. You can see a phantom up to a mile, but if you take your eye off the craft you'll lose it after about 2500'. When not within VLOS I think most pilots know the general proximity where their drone is (via FPV and radar screen overlay) and can easily see VLOS when manned aircraft approaches the drone airspace, at which time they can quickly descend below 100' via FPV and yield to manned aircraft.
It's been 3yrs since Lightbridge was released providing 2+ mile range capability. During this time there have been millions of drone flights beyond VLOS, and the incidents have been few, less than conflicts with birds. So far it's hasn't been a problem, lets hope it stays that way.

 

[andy_k]

Yes, that's the FAA guideline, but with the 4+ mile range of the P4P I'm guessing over half the pilots fly well beyond the 2500' visual range, which is about the limit of normal vision to see a phantom. You can see a phantom up to a mile, but if you take your eye off the craft you'll lose it after about 2500'. When not within VLOS I think most pilots know the general proximity where their drone is (via FPV and radar screen overlay) and can easily see VLOS when manned aircraft approaches the drone airspace, at which time they can quickly descend below 100' via FPV and yield to manned aircraft.
It's been 3yrs since Lightbridge was released providing 2+ mile range capability. During this time there have been millions of drone flights beyond VLOS, and the incidents have been few, less than conflicts with birds. So far it's hasn't been a problem, lets hope it stays that way.

I really don't 'get' Americans. Their attitude to the law seems totally flexible and they only really care about it when they are the 'victims'. Just because your drone flies that far doesn't mean that's how far you fly it. How about one day, you are out flying your drone at 2 miles away and way beyond VLOS when somebody takes a dislike to it and shoots it down - my guess is that you would want the law applied to them even though you were in the wrong - weird huh?

 

[John Locke]

I really don't 'get' Americans. Their attitude to the law seems totally flexible and they only really care about it when they are the 'victims'. Just because your drone flies that far doesn't mean that's how far you fly it.

Remember, they are guidelines, not laws here in the US. Most of the FAA guidelines are good, others are overly conservative. If there was a law, DJI could easily put a 2500' limitation in the software, the same way they put a 500m AGL altitude limitation, which is way beyond the FAA guideline However they don't restrict distance, only height. The day will come where you'll see autonomous flights delivery packages with no VLOS intervention.

I guess some Americans feel more "at liberty" to use good judgement, and sometimes rebel again bad policy, such as rebelling against taxation without representation.

If using good judgment it's easy to fly safe by watching the drone's airspace. Although I may not be able to see my craft VLOS beyond 2500', I can easily see manned craft over 3 miles away, long before they reach my airspace. Most of the time I hear them before I see them (helicopters). When flying beyond VLOS I require good visibility of my airspace to avoid conflict, to easily yield to manned craft. I've only had to yield to manned craft 3 times in 2.5yrs of flying beyond VLOS. That's likely because the areas I select to fly beyond VLOS usually have no frequent manned air traffic patterns. Yielding is easy, quick and straightforward when needed. I've never even come close to be a threat to others, and I plan for it to stay that way.

 

[andy_k]

I keep hearing this 'it's just guidelines' but how does that fit with the Special Rule for Model Aircraft which is (according to the ref material I have) a law (Public Law 112-95 Section 336) which does say you have to follow 'community based guidelines' (such as the AMA regs - are there any other 'community based guidelines'?) which anywhere else in the world means they are to be followed or else you are breaking the law. Or am I misunderstanding the legislation?

It just seems (from reading these forums and other groups) that certain people are picking which bits of the law they like and which bits they don't - much like my shooting down drones example - if the person with the gun decides to ignore that part of the law because he thinks it doesn't matter how does that make him any different to the drone pilot flying illegally?

 

[John Locke]

much like my shooting down drones example - if the person with the gun decides to ignore that part of the law because he thinks it doesn't matter how does that make him any different to the drone pilot flying illegally?

Firing a gun at a flying object is not a good comparison, apples and orange. As you mentioned, community based "guidelines". Kinda like jaywalking IMO, or not coming to a full stop at a stop sign. You're not supposed to do it, but almost everyone does it from time to time, depending on where you're at.

 

[andy_k]

Firing a gun at a flying object is not a good comparison, apples and orange. As you mentioned, community based "guidelines". Kinda like jaywalking IMO, or not coming to a full stop at a stop sign. You're not supposed to do it, but almost everyone does it from time to time, depending on where you're at.

but the law states that you must follow community based guidelines - that makes the 'guidelines' law - I don't see a grey area so there is no difference - it's apples and apples

 

[With The Birds]

I really don't 'get' Americans. Their attitude to the law seems totally flexible and they only really care about it when they are the 'victims'. Just because your drone flies that far doesn't mean that's how far you fly it. How about one day, you are out flying your drone at 2 miles away and way beyond VLOS when somebody takes a dislike to it and shoots it down - my guess is that you would want the law applied to them even though you were in the wrong - weird huh?

That scenario would be two wrongs.....

 

[msinger]

Remember, they are guidelines, not laws here in the US.

Flying VLOS is definitely not a guideline (if that's what you're referring to).

 

[andy_k]

That scenario would be two wrongs.....

but what if neither side accepted they are doing wrong

 

[andy_k]

Flying VLOS is definitely not a guideline (if that's what you're referring to).

I assumed (I'm UK based) that when US law specified 'operating within a community based set of safety guidelines' that made the AMA's 'safety code' enforceable in law.

I keep seeing the 'guidelines' being mentioned though so I queried it

 

[Pete Leare]

The 15ft altitude is safe IMO, but going slow. I wouldn't fly over people that low, only when it's vacant. Flying FPV is pretty easy as long as you realize you have about a quarter second "delay to real time" in the display. Flying level is quite easy to cruise flat ground that low, but slow. The biggest danger flying low is a wire strung across the airspace. I find flying less than 10mph is needed to provide enough time to STOP when I see a wire. Going any faster and you really don't have enough time, given the 1/4 second video delay. I will sometimes check the flight area with binoculars to see what I can prepare for, and use for POI's before I fly. The 15' flight height is for more dramatic video shots, but that's pretty much my limit for low altitude when nobody is around. Animals are different, I'll get closer if they'll allow me too, but I have to use the Mavic for that, since it has less noise. Since I have refresh on my Mavic I get more brave with it, capturing stuff like the geese in this video below. Tripod mode works great for these type of flights.

John, Barometers, laws and guidelines aside for a minute - how on earth did your Mavic not spook these geese?? I was almost expecting one to get spooked and fly into it! Nice vid BTW..

 

[John Locke]

John, Barometers, laws and guidelines aside for a minute - how on earth did your Mavic not spook these geese?? I was almost expecting one to get spooked and fly into it! Nice vid BTW..

Yeah, I've had this question from others.

At this river it's kinda noisy, so I think these birds have grown accustom to noise. There's a very busy 14 lane freeway about 100yds away that's rather loud, and the river running adds to that background noise. The Mavic is noisy, but less than Phantom by far, and it's smaller and lighter, which creates less prop down draft, which can spook them. I wouldn't attempt this with my P4P, it wouldn't work well, not to mention my Mavic has refresh and my Phantom doesn't. I'm a little more brave with the Mavic because of refresh.

This is the 3rd time I have flown this area in 3 months, they may be getting use to me, I'm not sure, but I noticed in this flight they seem to be more tolerant in general. I approached them very slow in tripod mode, at low altitude, about 2-3' above the water. I was mostly concerned with the Geese, as they can get aggressive. I had to anticipate their moves, and there were a few times I thought they might charge the drone, but they never did. When they start raising and lowering their head up/down up/down (Ref @ 2:25), while looking right into the camera, I don't get closer because that's the sign it's not a happy camper about my presence. These Geese wander all over the regional park next door, you can walk right up to them and they don't get spooked, they seem pretty acclimated to humans, but you do need to be careful, they can turn on you. Geese move slower because they're big and heavy. Even with the 200ms video latency, I'm sure I can avoid them if they charged me, even in tripod mode, with a short 3' ascend. They cannot fly straight up like a duck or other birds, it takes them a while to get up in the air, like the Spruce Goose.

 

[John Locke]

how on earth did your Mavic not spook these geese??

I just realized you were looking at the flight from 3mos ago. Here's my latest geese encounter from last weekend, same place, and I think the same geese. This is my first 4K video with the Mavic at 30fps. I usually capture with my Mavic at 1080@60fps, which allows me to use the 2X zoom feature, and use slo-mo options, but this time I wanted to try out 4K, since I got a new computer that's more capable to edit 4K easier.

I'm flying FPV from the edge of the river about 700' away, by the trees you can see to the left. The Mavic was behind the weeds from my vantage point, just out of VLOS. This is a great flight spot for me, since I live nearby. I ride my ebike down to the river and along the bike path until I find a nice shade tree, then launch.

 

[Pete Leare]

I just realized you were looking at the flight from 3mos ago. Here's my latest geese encounter from last weekend, same place, and I think the same geese. This is my first 4K video with the Mavic at 30fps. I usually capture with my Mavic at 1080@60fps, which allows me to use the 2X zoom feature, and use slo-mo options, but this time I wanted to try out 4K, since I got a new computer that's more capable to edit 4K easier.

I'm flying FPV from the edge of the river about 700' away, by the trees you can see to the left. The Mavic was behind the weeds from my vantage point, just out of VLOS. This is a great flight spot for me, since I live nearby. I ride my ebike down to the river and along the bike path until I find a nice shade tree, then launch.

Very nice mate! [emoji6]