3.5 miles out and back again with the Phantom 3 Standard

[NG Phantom]

So did your planning include clearing the airspace of helicopters and civilian aircraft? Three miles out how would you know if a helicopter was about to overtake you from behind or from the side? Google "see and avoid" and you will find out what your responsibilities are as a drone pilot in the eyes of the FAA.

Just because you see videos out there all the time doesn't make them safe and legal drone flights. There are a ton of videos out there of illegal flights.

You said you were flying a Phantom. Are you aware of the fact that you or your drone needs to be registered with the FAA depending on whether your flight was a commercial or hobbyist flight?

Followed the UK regulations regarding legal maximum height (max is 120m, I was flying at 65m).
I was not within any airport restriction area or no fly zone.
Drone registration in the UK is only mandatory from November 2019.
Anyway, its getting late here in the UK so off to dream about my next mission

 

[skymonkey]

If you check IslaJim's post again you'd realise that he's flying offshore.
Unless there's a regatta taking place, I'm sure he'd be putting the public at minimum or no risk.

Any hobbyists or commercial pic flying BVLOS is breaking one of these rules/regulations

And potentially putting lives at risk. These rules are put in place to mitigate the dangers inherent in aviation.

 

[grego122]

Newby here, please explain "waypoint mission"? ( disregard, I went out to the Litchi site, more stuff to learn! )
Very cool. congratulations. I am a new pilot stretching my boundaries, about 12 flights ( after 8 hours on the simulator). Pushed out to 3500 feet away yesterday, p4 adv. Flying offshore where I live. I'm about 12 flights in. There was a sailboat offshore I was using as a reference point onscreen, that I could see from the low cliff where I take off. A little nerve wracking but very fun. Really impressed by the technology.

Watch and don't let the wind take it to sea and you don't have enough power or batteries!

 

[xspwhite]

I dont understand why these apps are built for breaking flying laws? I'm reminded of the guy that posted the other day about how when his app crashed, he was dumbfounded and didn't know how to operate the remote controller. The only point I see about this mission is to see how far something can be pushed until something goes wrong.

 

[bdooley]

My bad, I did not notice that you are in the UK. I am not familiar with your regulations are over there. So you may have been flying legally within your regulations. But if BVLOS flights are legal there I will contend that they are unsafe even if offshore. Most of your posts refer to the safety of people on the ground. Your planning mitigated a lot of risk in that regard. But what about others, particularly manned aircraft, that could have been sharing that same airspace? Just because you were not near an airport's restricted airspace doesn't mean manned aircraft could not be in the area.

One other thing I think you mentioned is that you planned your flight such that you would be over unpopulated areas. In my opinion that does not mitigate risk, it introduces more risk. Again, people on the ground are not the only thing you should be concerned about.

I think you did a lot of planning which is really good. But I feel that you are forgetting about some other important parts in your planning.

 

[bdooley]

I dont understand why these apps are built for breaking flying laws? I'm reminded of the guy that posted the other day about how when his app crashed, he was dumbfounded and didn't know how to operate the remote controller. The only point I see about this mission is to see how far something can be pushed until something goes wrong.

The technology has grown faster than laws, regulations and guidelines could possibly put in place. So each of us is left to our own device. Pushing the technology to its limits (to the point of failure) is just not very wise in my opinion - laws or no laws.

 

[NG Phantom]

Most of your posts refer to the safety of people on the ground. Your planning mitigated a lot of risk in that regard. But what about others, particularly manned aircraft, that could have been sharing that same airspace? Just because you were not near an airport's restricted airspace doesn't mean manned aircraft could not be in the area.

Being a user of the FlightRadar24 app, I have often checked the altitude of manned aircraft in that area.
I have not observed any aircraft flying below 400 mtrs (1300 ft).
The maximum altitude for flying a drone in the UK is 120 mtrs (400 ft).
As I flew no higher than 65 mtrs (214 ft) throughout the whole mission I had assumed that I was flying too low to be a risk to any manned aircraft.

 

[bdooley]

It is good that you have used FlightRadar24. I am not sure if helicopters and small private aircraft would show up on that though. In case you hadn't figured it out yet, helicopters are what scares me the most even when flying VLOS. ?

 

[skymonkey]

Being a user of the FlightRadar24 app, I have often checked the altitude of manned aircraft in that area.

ADS-B mandate requirements in US is January 2020 and June 2020 for European countries. Substituting Flightradar24 for your eyes is a very bad choice.

 

[skymonkey]

Followed the UK regulations regarding legal maximum height (max is 120m, I was flying at 65m).
I was not within any airport restriction area or no fly zone.
Drone registration in the UK is only mandatory from November 2019.
Anyway, its getting late here in the UK so off to dream about my next mission

What about keeping your drone 500 meters from you horizontally?
Or ensure your drone is always in sight?
What about NOT flying within 50 meters of people, vehicles, buildings, or vessels if you have a camera?

 

[Tenisyn]

It is good that you have used FlightRadar24. I am not sure if helicopters and small private aircraft would show up on that though. In case you hadn't figured it out yet, helicopters are what scares me the most even when flying VLOS. [emoji3]

This is the reason that performing regular airspace scans is a good idea. Just bring your gimbal back to the horizon, gently mash that left stick long enough to get your SA, then go back to what you were doing.

 

[NG Phantom]

What about keeping your drone 500 meters from you horizontally?
Or ensure your drone is always in sight?
What about NOT flying within 50 meters of people, vehicles, buildings, or vessels if you have a camera?

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I have never denied that I flew out of VLOS.
My argument was that I had done everything possible to keep any risk to the public to a minimum once I had flown out of VLOS.

You have posted 2 still images from the flight where you are presumably trying to show that I was breaking the UK drone laws by flying within 50 metres of people, vehicles or buildings.

Let me give you a quick maths lesson.

The tallest house or building that I flew over was no more than 10 metres tall.
I was flying at an altitude of 65 metres.
65m - 10m = 55m so I was always at least 55m away from any house or building.

The tallest man is usually no more than 2 metres tall.
65m - 2m = 63m so I was always at least 63m away from any human on the ground.

I even allowed for a man doing roofwork on any of those buildings.
65m - (10m+2m) = 53 metres above any man standing on a roof !!!

The tallest vehicle would have to be over 15 metres tall for me to have flown less than 50m from it.

If I flew a similar mission, and could give you a 100% guarantee that no humans, animals or other aircraft were within 10 miles of that mission, would you still condemn it ?

 

[skymonkey]

I have never denied that I flew out of VLOS.
My argument was that I had done everything possible to keep any risk to the public to a minimum once I had flown out of VLOS.

You have posted 2 still images from the flight where you are presumably trying to show that I was breaking the UK drone laws by flying within 50 metres of people, vehicles or buildings.

Let me give you a quick maths lesson.

The tallest house or building that I flew over was no more than 10 metres tall.
I was flying at an altitude of 65 metres.
65m - 10m = 55m so I was always at least 55m away from any house or building.

The tallest man is usually no more than 2 metres tall.
65m - 2m = 63m so I was always at least 63m away from any human on the ground.

I even allowed for a man doing roofwork on any of those buildings.
65m - (10m+2m) = 53 metres above any man standing on a roof !!!

The tallest vehicle would have to be over 15 metres tall for me to have flown less than 50m from it.

If I flew a similar mission, and could give you a 100% guarantee that no humans, animals or other aircraft were within 10 miles of that mission, would you still condemn it ?

I don’t agree you did everything possible to keep risk to public to at a minimum. The minute you flew further than 500 meter horizontally from you or went BVLOS you just became negligent and reckless and put lives in danger.
If your ac was flying N and an aircraft approached your sUAS from the E, S, or W, would you have known? I seriously doubt it. In fact it could have happened on your flight and you never knew.
When you fly negligently and recklessly putting innocent lives in danger I will condemn it 100% of the time.

First person in UK prosecuted for using drone to disturb police

Sergej Miaun was arrested at his home in the small village of Guyhirn near the town of Wisbech in Cambridgeshire - half a mile away from the site of the helicopter's search for a 'missing woman'.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[NG Phantom]

I don’t agree you did everything possible to keep risk to public to at a minimum. The minute you flew further than 500 meter horizontally from you or went BVLOS you just became negligent and reckless and put lives in danger.
If your ac was flying N and an aircraft approached your sUAS from the E, S, or W, would you have known? I seriously doubt it. In fact it could have happened on your flight and you never knew.
When you fly negligently and recklessly putting innocent lives in danger I will condemn it 100% of the time.

First person in UK prosecuted for using drone to disturb police

Sergej Miaun was arrested at his home in the small village of Guyhirn near the town of Wisbech in Cambridgeshire - half a mile away from the site of the helicopter's search for a 'missing woman'.

www.dailymail.co.uk

I don't know at what altitude manned aircraft fly at in the US but over here in the UK they do not fly as low as 65 metres (214 ft) so I was not endangering any aircaft.
The footage shown in the news article you refer to does not show any video that indicates how high the drone user was flying at the time he was interfering with the police helicopter but I would suspect that he was flying much higher than me.
The footage showing him near to his home shows that the police helicopter is flying higher than 1000 feet, although the footage is zoomed in. (check towards the bottom left of the video)
Whilst performing a search the police helicopter would be flying at at least 1000 ft as I've checked the altitude of police helicopters when I've observed them in my own area doing similar searches.
If the guy was flying at the legal altitude then he would not have been interfering with the police helicopter.
He also deliberately flew his drone in that direction after seeing police lights.

 

[skymonkey]

I don't know at what altitude manned aircraft fly at in the US but over here in the UK they do not fly as low as 65 metres (214 ft) so I was not endangering any aircaft.
The footage shown in the news article you refer to does not show any video that indicates how high the drone user was flying at the time he was interfering with the police helicopter but I would suspect that he was flying much higher than me.
The footage showing him near to his home shows that the police helicopter is flying higher than 1000 feet, although the footage is zoomed in. (check towards the bottom left of the video)
Whilst performing a search the police helicopter would be flying at at least 1000 ft as I've checked the altitude of police helicopters when I've observed them in my own area doing similar searches.
If the guy was flying at the legal altitude then he would not have been interfering with the police helicopter.
He also deliberately flew his drone in that direction after seeing police lights.

All aircraft must fly from ground level through 65 meters in order to get to their desired altitude and land.
I pointed out the video to share with you that the CAA has busted and prosecuted a drone pilot in the UK for not following one of the rules/regulations. Don’t become a statistic. Follow ALL the rules, there are no exceptions that I could see. Be Safe.

 

[Tenisyn]

I don't know at what altitude manned aircraft fly at in the US but over here in the UK they do not fly as low as 65 metres (214 ft) so I was not endangering any aircaft.
The footage shown in the news article you refer to does not show any video that indicates how high the drone user was flying at the time he was interfering with the police helicopter but I would suspect that he was flying much higher than me.
The footage showing him near to his home shows that the police helicopter is flying higher than 1000 feet, although the footage is zoomed in. (check towards the bottom left of the video)
Whilst performing a search the police helicopter would be flying at at least 1000 ft as I've checked the altitude of police helicopters when I've observed them in my own area doing similar searches.
If the guy was flying at the legal altitude then he would not have been interfering with the police helicopter.
He also deliberately flew his drone in that direction after seeing police lights.

If he intentionally flew toward the authorities, he’s an idiot. In the sky, as on the ground, the authorities always have right of way.

I do wonder what helicopter pilots generally consider a safe operating floor.

 

[HABU1AZ]

I’ve had 2 instances where I was on a flight and if it not for my awareness, a heli pilot would have caused close calls. One a news chopper and one a tour bird. I only fly part 107 and had proper clearance to fly. I document my subject closely and never flown far from it, always VLOS. Keep in mind I’ve only been flying 7 months, I’m a safe and cautious pilot. If not for my awareness and doing proper maneuvers to “clear the path” these guys would have made it close, heard them first then the flew by.

The OP did a lot of legwork to ensure safety but once out of sight it’s scary. I still get nervous every time I fly and always have the worst case scenario in mind.

 

[trcsmith]

So did your planning include clearing the airspace of helicopters and civilian aircraft? Three miles out how would you know if a helicopter was about to overtake you from behind or from the side? Google "see and avoid" and you will find out what your responsibilities are as a drone pilot in the eyes of the FAA.

Just because you see videos out there all the time doesn't make them safe and legal drone flights. There are a ton of videos out there of illegal flights.

You said you were flying a Phantom. Are you aware of the fact that you or your drone needs to be registered with the FAA depending on whether your flight was a commercial or hobbyist flight?

If you can't fly by the rules find a different hobby. All your going to do is give the rest of us a bad name, and possibility kill someone or more. It's just not worth it. Plane Pilots are allowed to fly close to the ground within certen restrictions. They are flying anywhere from 60 to over 200 MPH. At that speed they will be upon your drone real quick. The FAA monitors these forums and in the US they don't want to make an example of someone but they will to get the point across. It could cost small fortune to defend yourself in court. Your choice, fly safe or please don't fly at all, too much is at risk. I'll get back on my meds now.......

 

[trcsmith]

I’ve had 2 instances where I was on a flight and if it not for my awareness, a heli pilot would have caused close calls. One a news chopper and one a tour bird. I only fly part 107 and had proper clearance to fly. I document my subject closely and never flown far from it, always VLOS. Keep in mind I’ve only been flying 7 months, I’m a safe and cautious pilot. If not for my awareness and doing proper maneuvers to “clear the path” these guys would have made it close, heard them first then the flew by.

The OP did a lot of legwork to ensure safety but once out of sight it’s scary. I still get nervous every time I fly and always have the worst case scenario in mind.

You would have caused the close call. Drones do not have the right of way. They must not operate anywhere close to aircraft. If your following the rules then their would be no close calls. Just saying.

 

[HABU1AZ]

You would have caused the close call. Drones do not have the right of way. They must not operate anywhere close to aircraft. If your following the rules then their would be no close calls. Just saying.

How so. I was flying within the rules and gave the manned aircraft the right of way as I’m supposed to. My point was that if I wasn’t VLOS it could have been worse. I should point out that both choppers where flying low and possibly below they’re 500 ft limit. I’m following the all rules to a T so how would I have caused a close call. How am I to know when a manned aircraft is headed my way unless I have VLOS. Are you saying the FAA shouldn’t have given me permission to fly this area because there might be aircraft around? Just saying.