2312 Motor issue - UPDATE FROM DJI!!!

[Nathan Carter]

When I upload it compresses the photo. All I can tell you is two sets of wires were stuck together and I had to pull them apart. The others were not like that. Almost like a clear coating came off one of the wires. Does not look like glue on the others. Make sense?

Your photos uploaded just fine. High enough resolution, they are just a bit out of focus and from the wrong angle.

There is no clear coating on the wires, it's just the plastic type insulation material in the specific color of each wire. If there was some melting you would actually see deformation in the same color that the insulation is made of, or black burned out parts of insulation and naked wire beneath.

That white/clear stuff is hot glue, almost 100% sure. And you probably don't have it everywhere because either it dropped off completely, or the assembly staff goes so quick through the phantoms that it happens that they miss placing glue everywhere. But its just a guess. I would suggest that you try to clean that stuff out from the wires completely and then see if you can spot any difference or even a spot where you supposedly saw that it melted.

 

[Luap]

If you have the 2.1 ESC's and your motor wires are melting together, then this makes this entire thread and this DJI announcement moot.

DJI haven't made any formal announcement about the issue - this is an email received from DJI by one user.
The same info was provided in German forum mid December. The said V2.0 firmware 4.02 was buggy and replaced by V2.1 but DJI never mentioned what the bugs caused.

I wonder how long DJI will take to make some sort of formal announcement to explain what is going on!

 

[tritontr21]

I've seen this type of wire before, When it gets hot or older that clear looking plastic comes of of it. Exactly what this looks like. Hope I'm wrong.

Electrical wire that creates a clear substance when it gets hot or melts... talk about clutching at straws :lol:

My whole family are electricians. I am not one. However, I've worked on marine electronics my entire life. So I'm not sure what your comment means. It's a fact. You can deny it all you like.

 

[tritontr21]

That red wire is Definitely deformed. I posted link to full res up a few posts.

 

[tritontr21]

When I upload it compresses the photo. All I can tell you is two sets of wires were stuck together and I had to pull them apart. The others were not like that. Almost like a clear coating came off one of the wires. Does not look like glue on the others. Make sense?

Your photos uploaded just fine. High enough resolution, they are just a bit out of focus and from the wrong angle.

There is no clear coating on the wires, it's just the plastic type insulation material in the specific color of each wire. If there was some melting you would actually see deformation in the same color that the insulation is made of, or black burned out parts of insulation and naked wire beneath.

That white/clear stuff is hot glue, almost 100% sure. And you probably don't have it everywhere because either it dropped off completely, or the assembly staff goes so quick through the phantoms that it happens that they miss placing glue everywhere. But its just a guess. I would suggest that you try to clean that stuff out from the wires completely and then see if you can spot any difference or even a spot where you supposedly saw that it melted.

Glue that is only in between the two wires almost underneath? None on top of the wire? There is no sign of hot glue being applied or dropped. There would have been some on the top or some on underneath. It wasn't applied or dropped. It was only between two wires. They couldn't have purposely took the time to do that.

Again, I hope it's hot glue and I am totally wrong. But appears not.

 

[RichWest]

FWIW, There is heat shrink that does have adhesive to bond it to whatever inside...once heated... Looks like hot glue...depending on brand of heat shrink.

The insulation on the winding wires, is actually translucent. Could be any shade of color to discern the insulation is in place or broken.

 

[Nathan Carter]

This is no surprise to many of us. The fets look like they can handle 12 amps or so, the wire not so much. Not enough surface area for heat sinking and nearly zero "reliable flexibility".

Did nearly everyone think Hani I made up the issue? Look at the freaking wires... their pathetic. Fly it aggressive under load in a hot climate and see what happens, throw is a little glitchy esc..... Poof up in smoke.

How about a little high frequency vibration with the plastic insulation touching :lol: I cant help but chuckle. I have had various plastic bodies welded together in sections from vibration.

Silicone insulation has its place and so does flexible braided wire. It supposed to be running in place here.

So now DJI is gluing the plastic insulated wires together? :shock: I will wait for confirmation I just dont believe it...

Burlbark, with all due respect, I think you are misleading people here. Wires are completely not the issue, the wires are good and are actually not wires(as a separate component) but just extended motor windings. You said you will do thermal tests with the FLIR camera, have you? You are still stating that the motor wires are overheating, but you have not actually measured it!

But there is a guy(na5n) who has! And I truely believe this guy knows what he is talking about. He really elaborated it well in his post:

http://forum.dji.com/forum.php?mod=view ... D1&lang=en

The problem is in MOSFETs and the ESC firmware. Forget about the wires, they melt only as a side effect of the main problem.

 

[Nathan Carter]

That red wire is Definitely deformed. I posted link to full res up a few posts.

Is this speck seen on the red wire just a reflection or dust? Or is that the naked wire beneath?!(probably not)
I don't see any other obvious deformations from the photo :-/

As for the hot glue.. Maybe it is not or maybe it is completely accidentally there for example if the assembly guys are flying around fast with the gun while applying hot glue to some other component. I just believe that if there was some melting going on the effects would be much more severe, like stronger and darker discoloration and insulations from two wires would fuse together then. And when you would then separate them it would probably destroy the insulation or leave a definite rough part on the spot. Nothing of that can be seen in your photos.

 

[Nathan Carter]

Again, I believe this post should be really considered as a basis to figure this problem out. Really good description:

http://forum.dji.com/forum.php?mod=view ... D1&lang=en

Just a short quote:
"During my full power tethered flights, the wiring temperature was monitored. It never exceeded 40C, below the melting point of wire insulation, though the insulation (actually, shrink tubing) was "mushy." The MOSFETs were very hot by the end of the flight; the motors just kind of warm. MOSFETs switching high current *do* get hot under normal conditions. Still, I didn't see any compelling signs of wire melting or any design flaws with the DJI ESCs. Basically, they're quite clever and well designed. I no longer believe the motor wires are too small and causing problems. And, inspite of intentionally blowing up some ESCs for these tests, it never damaged a motor."
-- na5n

 

[tritontr21]

That red wire is Definitely deformed. I posted link to full res up a few posts.

Is this speck seen on the red wire just a reflection or dust? Or is that the naked wire beneath?!(probably not)
I don't see any other obvious deformations from the photo :-/

As for the hot glue.. Maybe it is not or maybe it is completely accidentally there for example if the assembly guys are flying around fast with the gun while applying hot glue to some other componenet. I just believe that if there was some melting going on the effects would be much more severe, like stronger and darker discoloration and insulations from two wires would fuse together then. And when you would then separate them it would probably destroy the insulation or leave a definite rough part on the spot. Nothing of that can be seen in your photos.

It's not a "spot" I'm looking at. It's deformed. Not a spot.

 

[tritontr21]

Deformed area. If you can't see it, you don't want too.

No it wouldn't tear the other apart until certain temp was gained and fused together. Things aren't always black or white or extreme. Sometimes things are gradual.

 

[tritontr21]

I never thought people would attack others for sharing opinions and problems. There are some real *** holes on this forum.

 

[Nathan Carter]

It's not a "spot" I'm looking at. It's deformed. Not a spot.

So the spot is just dust. OK. A bit deformation like someone pinched the wire can be seen. Is it like that(is the wire really flat pinched at that spot) or is the insulation loose at that spot? so that when you touch it you can feel the wire inside moving in the insulation? Like it has delaminated from the wire itself. That would be a heat issue then for real. Try to really inspect it good and describe in as much detail!
If we are going to resolve this we need some really precise info.

However that "deformation" could be also from poor heat shrinking process during assembly, and not actually from overheating during use.I guess someone has to inspect their newly bought phantom before first flight and then after few flights to confirm an actual overheating deformation has happened.
Also if someone had a FLIR camera(like the FLIR ONE for iPhone) and could record a video from above while flying the phantom a few feet from the ground that would give some good clues as to what is going on.

 

[tritontr21]

Now I can't say. But what I can say is the deformation is ONLY where the wires were stuck together. Which is odd. Again.. I hope I'm wrong. I separated them as much as possible.

 

[burlbark]

,
It's not a "spot" I'm looking at. It's deformed. Not a spot.

So the spot is just dust. OK. A bit deformation like someone pinched the wire can be seen. Is it like that(is the wire really flat pinched at that spot) or is the insulation loose at that spot? so that when you touch it you can feel the wire inside moving in the insulation? Like it has delaminated from the wire itself. That would be a heat issue then for real. Try to really inspect it good and describe in as much detail!
If we are going to resolve this we need some really precise info.

However that "deformation" could be also from poor heat shrinking process during assembly, and not actually from overheating during use.I guess someone has to inspect their newly bought phantom before first flight and then after few flights to confirm an actual overheating deformation has happened.
Also if someone had a FLIR camera(like the FLIR ONE for iPhone) and could record a video from above while flying the phantom a few feet from the ground that would give some good clues as to what is going on.

I have 2 FLIR cameras and currently dont have the time to fit the upgraded motors and esc's in place. In another 5 days or so if work slows down, I plan on doing a bunch of testing beyond what I have already done. Flir one lacks the resolution needed.

How many wires will need to be melted together before this is a confirmed issue? :roll:

Please remember that there are 2 wires in that insulation and that they weave and overlap one another. If you have real heat damage the insulation will either be brittle or it will sag and not make full contact with the wires.

 

[justin00]

Just out of curiosity.... do all 4 of your ESC say v2.1 on them?

Now I can't say. But what I can say is the deformation is ONLY where the wires were stuck together. Which is odd. Again.. I hope I'm wrong. I separated them as much as possible.

 

[jasonb777]

I contacted these guys today "TheNerds.net / Drone Nerds" who are one of DJIs support centers and told them the whole scenario from these forums from the version firmware, to the melted wires, to the burnt mosfets and they said that they have not heard of any issues with melted wires or V3s falling from the sky but they have had a few that had tip overs and burned up the mosfets. I'm at a loss on what to do, I have blank labels next to the QR code, no V2.0 OR V2.1 so I suppose I got what is left from B+Hs Christmas supply, and I think thats probably V1.0 prior to V2.0? :? Anyways also called B+H and they said if I felt that this firmware might be an issue with that batch of birds then I could return it and wait for the next batch which could be a long time. What should I do? I thought about putting the carbon fiber blades on I have from a previous PV2+ and letting them strike a stick while sitting on the ground to see if the esc will burn up...Better on the ground than in the air...

 

[GSSP]

OK here is my V3, purchased November 24, 2014, 20+ cold weather flights, NO Version number, 2.0 ESCs, I gently lifted all wires off the MOSFETs and had some mild melting of every wire that laid flat on the MOSFETs:

I STRONGLY RECOMMEND EVERY V3 BE OPENED AND WIRES LIFTED OFF THE MOSFETs

 

[tritontr21]

Just out of curiosity.... do all 4 of your ESC say v2.1 on them?

Now I can't say. But what I can say is the deformation is ONLY where the wires were stuck together. Which is odd. Again.. I hope I'm wrong. I separated them as much as possible.

Lol. I checked that also. Yes they are all 2.1

 

[Nathan Carter]

OK here is my V3, purchased November 24, 2014, 20+ cold weather flights, NO Version number, 2.1 ESCs,

How do you know it is v2.1 ESC when you don't have a version number printed on the label?