14mp not 20mp

[Meta4]

Its false advertising, at best misleading simple as that. My p4p pictures are good but it's still misleading regardless of which way the camera works.

That sounds like it's just something to complain about even though it doesn't affect you either?

 

[AyeYo]

Its false advertising, at best misleading simple as that. My p4p pictures are good but it's still misleading regardless of which way the camera works.

Exactly. There's plenty of DJI apologists here, but at the end of the day there's no way around the fact that it's simply false advertising.

 

[AyeYo]

That sounds like it's just something to complain about even though it doesn't affect you either?

That's BS reasoning. When Tesla lied about the power output of the P100, the "yea but it's still fast" defense of them their apologists didn't hold up in court.

 

[ryanmanchester]

That sounds like it's just something to complain about even though it doesn't affect you either?

Are you for real? Its like accepting a typhoon H when you ordered a typhoon H pro! Don't talk garbage, if ir states 20mp then i want that! Think you need accept that your counter argument has no substance on quality, we are talking about an advertised product being sold without the advertised product!

 

[andy_k]

OK then, just for Meta4 who seems to be struggling with this whole thing.

Here's a dng file imported straight into Adobe Camera Raw using the DJI preset and nothing else - all the sliders are at zero.

1, a lot of the white highlights appear blown out

2, the shadows are very dark and in the darkest points there is already noise creeping in on the full size picture

3, the edges of the frame are soft and lack detail

So, whilst your sitting there saying 'oh, you clearly got the exposure wrong or it wouldn't look like this please look below

This is the raw file, straight out of the camera and viewed with no corrections - all the sliders are at zero as they were in Adobe Camera Raw

1, the highlights/whites aren't blown out
2, the shadows aren't almost black and there is plenty of detail in there
3, the parts that are soft in the ACR conversion are now sharp.

Finally, here's a rough estimation of how much of the sensor we are actually using in our final images - that is not a 20mp image!

Hopefully that helps point out some of the issues

 

[andy_k]

Exactly right ... it has no impact on my photography at all and despite the protesting, I'm still not able to see any evidence that it has any actual, real negative impact on anyone else either.
But that's just my opinion ... if it pains you to know that DJi have worked their magic differently from the way Oscar Barnak might have done it back in 1925, that's your perogative.

and yet you still didn't answer my question

It's not working magic as you put it (perhaps that's the problem, you really don't understand what's going on so have decided it's all witchcraft and trickery that's best left alone) it's using simple techniques that no sensible photographer would even think about in order to play 'top trumps' with the specs. At the end of the day 20mp sounds a lot better than 15mp (effective) sensor.

but, don't you worry about all this 'magic' it doesn't affect you so you'll be fine

 

[smiller]

I agree with most of the above but the reality is that compromises get made trying to deliver something with all the capabilities of the P4P at a $1500 price point. If it's inadequate maybe return/sell it and get an Inspire 2?

 

[andy_k]

I agree with most of the above but the reality is that compromises get made trying to deliver something with all the capabilities of the P4P at a $1500 price point. If it's inadequate maybe return/sell it and get an Inspire 2?

There's nothing 'wrong' with it physically. what is wrong is an embedded profile in the raw file which can't be disabled in the most commonly used raw editor. Nor is it inadequate but to work around something like this is not mentioned anywhere in any of the literature.

To some of us it matters

 

[AyeYo]

I agree with most of the above but the reality is that compromises get made trying to deliver something with all the capabilities of the P4P at a $1500 price point. If it's inadequate maybe return/sell it and get an Inspire 2?

No one saying that making comprises isn't a realistic necessity. What people are upset about are the facts that:

1. DJI is LYING about delivering 20MP RAW photos

2. The embedded corrects aren't even delivering RAW photos at all. The corrections are often making photos WORSE.

 

[MikeON]

Odd that Adobe Camera Raw does not allow disabling the embedded profile. It gives a message in tiny print that the profile has been applied to the image. I hadn't noticed the message before.
It appears from Andy's images above that the lens is still somewhat of a fisheye - and straightened by the profile.
Some of my favorite wildlife pictures were taken with a 3.1MP Canon D30 and make great 8x10s. So 15MP is enough for most uses, but it isn't the advertised 20MP.
That all being said, my current non-flying camera is a 50MP Canon 5DSR. I like the ability to crop and thus effectively gain magnification, but still have plenty of pixels.

 

[DaRana]

That all being said, my current non-flying camera is a 50MP Canon 5DSR. I like the ability to crop and thus effectively gain magnification, but still have plenty of pixels.

Oh man I love the 5DSR. I shot a recent fashion editorial with it and it was so incredible. Knowing we had the MP to work with sped up the shoot so much. It was also amazing how many memory cards I just absolutely blew through.

 

[DaRana]

I'd like to access the truly raw DNG then apply the color profile I've created with the Color Checker and the Lens Profile someone on the board here has generated and see how it compares. In theory with those two profiles we should get a raw file with any lens and barrel distortion corrected for as well as appropriate color response in the demosaicing, but without some of the other preprocessing.

I tinkered for a few minutes with trying to trick Adobe apps into opening the file with no embedded profile. No luck trying to reprocess it with DNG Creator or saving with a multitude of old formats.

A DNG has the XMP data embedded in it, so I tried opening with a text editor on a whim but no go. If we could access the raw XMP portion of the DNG that SHOULD contain the embedded profile. Since XMP is plain text we could then simply strip it out.

 

[DaRana]

I don't have a Mac but this looks like it might do it or at least part of it.
DNG Cleaner

 

[andy_k]

just open the files in something like Rawtherapee and do your edits there

 

[Oso]

I have an honest question for clarification. Does the P4P not have a one inch 20MP sensor as I see advertised or does it in fact have a 20MP sensor? If it does have a 20MP sensor as advertised, why is that false advertising? Are you guys saying that DJI is advertising that you will get a 20MP final image?

 

[AyeYo]

I have an honest question for clarification. Does the P4P not have a one inch 20MP sensor as I see advertised or does it in fact have a 20MP sensor? If it does have a 20MP sensor as advertised, why is that false advertising? Are you guys saying that DJI is advertising that you will get a 20MP final image?

Again, it's very similar to the Tesla false advertising of power output lawsuit. Tesla claimed the P100 has XX amount of horsepower. In reality, the car has motors capable of that much power, but the battery and electrical system cannot deliver the claimed power - therefore in actual use, the car will never produce the claimed power. Tesla lost the lawsuit. Their defense of "but it's still as fast as we said" did not hold up, just like the DJI apologist claims of "but it still takes good pictures" don't matter.

Similarly, the P4P is claimed to have a 20MP camera. It does indeed have a 20MP sensor. However, due to limitations of the lense, it cannot produce a usable true 20MP picture - therefore the 20MP claim is false advertising because, just like in the Tesla case, any reasonable person would assume that 20MP advertised means a 20MP delivered picture. You do not legally get to play semantics games in marketing.

 

[andy_k]

I have an honest question for clarification. Does the P4P not have a one inch 20MP sensor as I see advertised or does it in fact have a 20MP sensor? If it does have a 20MP sensor as advertised, why is that false advertising? Are you guys saying that DJI is advertising that you will get a 20MP final image?

it claims an effective 20mp which is technically correct. The issue shouldn't be about false advertising, it should be about removing that awful preset in Adobe Camera Raw

 

[Oso]

Again, it's very similar to the Tesla false advertising of power output lawsuit. Tesla claimed the P100 has XX amount of horsepower. In reality, the car has motors capable of that much power, but the battery and electrical system cannot deliver the claimed power - therefore in actual use, the car will never produce the claimed power. Tesla lost the lawsuit. Their defense of "but it's still as fast as we said" did not hold up, just like the DJI apologist claims of "but it still takes good pictures" don't matter.

Similarly, the P4P is claimed to have a 20MP camera. It does indeed have a 20MP sensor. However, due to limitations of the lense, it cannot produce a usable true 20MP picture - therefore the 20MP claim is false advertising because, just like in the Tesla case, any reasonable person would assume that 20MP advertised means a 20MP delivered picture. You do not legally get to play semantics games in marketing.

Thank you.

 

[Oso]

it claims an effective 20mp which is technically correct. The issue shouldn't be about false advertising, it should be about removing that awful preset in Adobe Camera Raw

Thank you.

 

[DaRana]

it claims an effective 20mp which is technically correct. The issue shouldn't be about false advertising, it should be about removing that awful preset in Adobe Camera Raw

I just started a new thread about that here: Nuking the DNG Camera Profile