WiFi - SSID - Module & Extender - P2V+

Found some replacement 1/4" copper foil shielding tape for the wifi module. The old tape was barely doing it's job after repeated removal. Kind of went crazy taping up all the places where the cover material was folded to a seam, slight gaps. Basically the vertical corners and the bump'd out antenna connector box at the sides. I'm fairly certain this didn't improve anything, but made me feel better after spending the $12 for 5 yds of tape...

I figured out the thermal compound is silicon based in the wifi module. Could not get the new tape to stick initially, had to clean with a solvent to the module's exterior and my fingers...

Flew again today, twice was able to reach 1850' with full resolution FPV and control. The temp was warmer at about 48-54F in two flights of 12min each, with a 10MPH winds with gust. I flew about 120' altitude and had trees restricting clear sight. Yes, we still have leaves on trees.

The FPVLR antennas are well made, connections are staying tight to the external antenna connections on the bird.
 
Dropped the video speed down to 15fps with great results, otherwise I have loss of video feed at max FPV quality and distance. Was able to stretch out to 3000' without loss of FPV @ 150' altitude, temps as high as 74F. However, I was in a rural area with no other wifi signals to contend with.
 
final post on the subject....I learned a lot from the discovery.

Here are the results of my testing using heatsinks and thermal grease or tape. Not scientific by any means, but good enough for me to choose a solution that will help dissipate heat off the wifi module’s chips. My typical flying ambient will be about 95⁰F. My hope is to improve the unit’s ability to keep cool, which is supposed to reduce my loss of FPV or outright failure of the wifi module.

Again, take the information for what is being offered, derive your own opinion and plot a resolve based on your abilities or needs. I’m just sharing data with the community. Besides, RTF is just the box you opened on day one, it’s the box of worms you’re dealing with today if you’re reading this.

Thermocouple data loggers were EL-USB-TC set at 1 sec record interval. All the tests were done over three days, I have a life beyond this hobby. High Temperatures after 15 min, ambient 72⁰F for test 1 & 2, original thermal grease. “Covered”, was a simply paper towel to stop direct flowing air and not in contact with the module.

1. Heatsink was a modified copper sink designed for video card chips, pre-applied 3M 8810 thermal tape. Its dimension were originally 14x14x12mm, which had to be re-sized to fit into the diamond indention on the cover - basically 10x10mm. So I lost about 50% of its footprint. Further I had already known that this heatsink would be too tall for the phantom cover to be installed. Heatsink height was left unmodified for tests.

Uncovered
A 128⁰F w/HS - A 134⁰F w/o HS = -6
D 136⁰F w/HS - D 144⁰F w/o HS = -8
Covered
A 144⁰F w/ HS - A 150⁰F w/o HS = -6
D 152⁰F w/ HS - D 157⁰F w/o HS = -5

Air flow with or without a heatsink is a big factor, I saw a 16⁰F difference on average. I typically saw temperatures stabilize at about 12-13 minutes into the tests, never ran the tests longer to confirm otherwise. Further I felt typical run time with P2V batteries was on average 18min, so again time of tests were good enough for my needs.

2. Testing with the wifi cover off, with existing thermal grease still in place and uncovered to allow airflow. Point A, the actual chip surface, reached a high temp of 135⁰F. Whereas point D, the RF shield, reached 128⁰F. Point D was my surprise based on the application of thermal grease. Thermal grease by itself will not dissipate heat very well, it acts like an insulator to a certain degree. Further the RF shield had several places around its perimeter that had holes, with the wifi cover off it allowed for air flow to dissipate any heat. Further about 20% of the heat chip was under the RF shield, not sure to what degree this influenced the readings at point D.

3. I removed all the thermal grease that was applied by DJI and replaced with a 3M 467MP thermal tape at .5mm thickness cut to size for both the hot chip and the internal RF shield. I installed the wifi cover and applied shielding tape back on the unit. Uncovered w/o heatsink provided a 2⁰F reduction in thermal performance at both tests points against the original thermal grease. I’ll do more testing with thicker thermal tape as time permits, since I believe the RF shield has a greater gap to the cover. Ambient was 75⁰F for this round of testing.

4. Applied 20x20x5mm AL heatsink to cover, also placed a 1.5mm 3M 467MP thermal tape in the diamond recess area cut to size. This will be my final heatsink, height allows it to fit with the phantom cover on without further modifications. Measurement was at point D, since it was the same reference point as all previous tests while cover was on, was 139⁰F covered and 133⁰F uncovered. That’s a 3⁰F uncovered and 11⁰F covered improvement from my original tests – with smaller heatsink and thermal grease. Which nets me an 11⁰F uncovered and 16⁰F covered improvement from DJI’s original grease w/o HS. Ambient was 75⁰F for this round of testing. I’m sure that factors in somewhere to my advantage.

The wifi module’s thin metal case serves two purposes, an additional RF shield and as a heat sink. I really don’t believe it is properly sized for what heat is being produced and being in an enclosed structure. My typical +95⁰F flight temps is my ongoing problem. I believe I will have improvement if I can drill some vent holes around the wifi modules upper and lower covers. Just concerned if it would affect GPS signal thereafter…

Another idea. If you think about the open frame UAVs, they are flying uncovered. All surfaces have more than enough air flow to keep cool and are less likely to fail due to heat. This includes the IMU, ESC, motors, Wifi modules, main board and battery. Lots of heaters inside the Phantom body, with maybe 8 square inches of air passages. If you look at the Inspire 1, I think the open body look is on purpose – more air flow across all the components. Problem solved, almost, I still have a P2V+. I’ve often thought about this, what if you take the guts out of the Phantom 2 body and place it onto an open frame… Still have the economics for what is DJI’s FPV platform with actually a fairly amazing camera and gimbal. Well under budget for what the Inspire 1 is attempting to sell for as a pre-order unknown bag of tricks. Besides, I’ve gotten accustomed to the one man camera/flight crew using the P2V+. More is not always better, but the Inspire 1 is sexy…

So anyone interested in building a new frame to hold what was the P2V+? Could it be built for under $59?
 
RichWest said:
final post on the subject....I learned a lot from the discovery.

Here are the results of my testing using heatsinks and thermal grease or tape. Not scientific by any means, but good enough for me to choose a solution that will help dissipate heat off the wifi module’s chips. My typical flying ambient will be about 95⁰F. My hope is to improve the unit’s ability to keep cool, which is supposed to reduce my loss of FPV or outright failure of the wifi module.

Again, take the information for what is being offered, derive your own opinion and plot a resolve based on your abilities or needs. I’m just sharing data with the community. Besides, RTF is just the box you opened on day one, it’s the box of worms you’re dealing with today if you’re reading this.

Thermocouple data loggers were EL-USB-TC set at 1 sec record interval. All the tests were done over three days, I have a life beyond this hobby. High Temperatures after 15 min, ambient 72⁰F for test 1 & 2, original thermal grease. “Covered”, was a simply paper towel to stop direct flowing air and not in contact with the module.

1. Heatsink was a modified copper sink designed for video card chips, pre-applied 3M 8810 thermal tape. Its dimension were originally 14x14x12mm, which had to be re-sized to fit into the diamond indention on the cover - basically 10x10mm. So I lost about 50% of its footprint. Further I had already known that this heatsink would be too tall for the phantom cover to be installed. Heatsink height was left unmodified for tests.

Uncovered
A 128⁰F w/HS - A 134⁰F w/o HS = -6
D 136⁰F w/HS - D 144⁰F w/o HS = -8
Covered
A 144⁰F w/ HS - A 150⁰F w/o HS = -6
D 152⁰F w/ HS - D 157⁰F w/o HS = -5

Air flow with or without a heatsink is a big factor, I saw a 16⁰F difference on average. I typically saw temperatures stabilize at about 12-13 minutes into the tests, never ran the tests longer to confirm otherwise. Further I felt typical run time with P2V batteries was on average 18min, so again time of tests were good enough for my needs.

2. Testing with the wifi cover off, with existing thermal grease still in place and uncovered to allow airflow. Point A, the actual chip surface, reached a high temp of 135⁰F. Whereas point D, the RF shield, reached 128⁰F. Point D was my surprise based on the application of thermal grease. Thermal grease by itself will not dissipate heat very well, it acts like an insulator to a certain degree. Further the RF shield had several places around its perimeter that had holes, with the wifi cover off it allowed for air flow to dissipate any heat. Further about 20% of the heat chip was under the RF shield, not sure to what degree this influenced the readings at point D.

3. I removed all the thermal grease that was applied by DJI and replaced with a 3M 467MP thermal tape at .5mm thickness cut to size for both the hot chip and the internal RF shield. I installed the wifi cover and applied shielding tape back on the unit. Uncovered w/o heatsink provided a 2⁰F reduction in thermal performance at both tests points against the original thermal grease. I’ll do more testing with thicker thermal tape as time permits, since I believe the RF shield has a greater gap to the cover. Ambient was 75⁰F for this round of testing.

4. Applied 20x20x5mm AL heatsink to cover, also placed a 1.5mm 3M 467MP thermal tape in the diamond recess area cut to size. This will be my final heatsink, height allows it to fit with the phantom cover on without further modifications. Measurement was at point D, since it was the same reference point as all previous tests while cover was on, was 139⁰F covered and 133⁰F uncovered. That’s a 3⁰F uncovered and 11⁰F covered improvement from my original tests – with smaller heatsink and thermal grease. Which nets me an 11⁰F uncovered and 16⁰F covered improvement from DJI’s original grease w/o HS. Ambient was 75⁰F for this round of testing. I’m sure that factors in somewhere to my advantage.

The wifi module’s thin metal case serves two purposes, an additional RF shield and as a heat sink. I really don’t believe it is properly sized for what heat is being produced and being in an enclosed structure. My typical +95⁰F flight temps is my ongoing problem. I believe I will have improvement if I can drill some vent holes around the wifi modules upper and lower covers. Just concerned if it would affect GPS signal thereafter…

Another idea. If you think about the open frame UAVs, they are flying uncovered. All surfaces have more than enough air flow to keep cool and are less likely to fail due to heat. This includes the IMU, ESC, motors, Wifi modules, main board and battery. Lots of heaters inside the Phantom body, with maybe 8 square inches of air passages. If you look at the Inspire 1, I think the open body look is on purpose – more air flow across all the components. Problem solved, almost, I still have a P2V+. I’ve often thought about this, what if you take the guts out of the Phantom 2 body and place it onto an open frame… Still have the economics for what is DJI’s FPV platform with actually a fairly amazing camera and gimbal. Well under budget for what the Inspire 1 is attempting to sell for as a pre-order unknown bag of tricks. Besides, I’ve gotten accustomed to the one man camera/flight crew using the P2V+. More is not always better, but the Inspire 1 is sexy…

So anyone interested in building a new frame to hold what was the P2V+? Could it be built for under $59?

I certainly do know that the new wifi module uses better thermal compound and has holes for increased ventilation. Doesn't look they added any additional shielding though, except on the GPS module
 
I've seen the new wifi module only from one user to date, maybe yours.... But what is the better thermal compound you speak of, grease or pad? Got any pictures of the modules guts? Sure would be helpful while I'm trapped inside the phantom body...
 
I over looked a trend in my initial tests, Test 1. I did see a run away heat condition when the wifi unit was stock configured and covered. I associate covered to being the normal condition, what I believe is what I experience in a "normal" ambient flight. I had read 157F after 15 minutes at test point D, but now graphed I see the trend line going vertical. Which means if I had continued the test the module would have burnt up. Test point A was trending up when the test was stopped, but not at the same rate. With heatsinks installed, the same test was stabilized within 12 minutes. Can't argue with facts.



A previous experience with a 120W LED chip, taught me how internal metal parts (RF shield and PC board for our issue) can create an inductive heat load which will cause the chip to heat up further than expected. My question is, at what internal temp does the module start to lose FPV feed? Hopefully I won't care what it is, as it would be resolved. I highly recommend the heatsink solution, based on my un-scientific results. It's about $15 in parts and pieces. Members can decide what their needs are, I'm not selling a solution or service.
 

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RichWest said:
I've seen the new wifi module only from one user to date, maybe yours.... But what is the better thermal compound you speak of, grease or pad? Got any pictures of the modules guts? Sure would be helpful while I'm trapped inside the phantom body...
I wish I took pics.....I ended up exchanging mine because the camera tilt was screwed up

I don't wanna open up my new one at this point right now
 
but what I meant about a higher quality thermal compound was that it was silverish in color versus white ....silver conducts better
 
eyecon82 said:
but what I meant about a higher quality thermal compound was that it was silverish in color versus white ....silver conducts better

Well the only area you would have seen any thermal compound would have been the area above the internal RF shield. The RF shield is silver in color if you weren't already aware. I'm pretty sure with all the holes they didn't go with thermal grease. It would have been a mess otherwise. Honestly until I see an actual unit or have someone detail it, I'm not sure.

FWIW, color of thermal compound has little to do with performance. Good marketing color maybe?? I still like the thermal pad rather than grease, having the ability to control its application and bridge large gaps of +1mm is important when working to solve the module's dimensional tolerances.

Thank you for your observation and comments.
 
RichWest said:
Found some replacement 1/4" copper foil shielding tape for the wifi module. The old tape was barely doing it's job after repeated removal. Kind of went crazy taping up all the places where the cover material was folded to a seam, slight gaps. Basically the vertical corners and the bump'd out antenna connector box at the sides. I'm fairly certain this didn't improve anything, but made me feel better after spending the $12 for 5 yds of tape...

I figured out the thermal compound is silicon based in the wifi module. Could not get the new tape to stick initially, had to clean with a solvent to the module's exterior and my fingers...

Flew again today, twice was able to reach 1850' with full resolution FPV and control

Rich,
Thanks for your thorough investigation. I am unclear on what actually "fixed' your issue.
Was it the antennas, the WiFi transmitter, or just taping up the WiFi module cover, or some combination? From you posts, seems like nothing improved significantly until you taped the WiFi box
 
Doc - Honestly I'm not sure anything is resolved at this point, really won't know anything until the weather warms up a bit. Actually, I believe, the heat issue contributes to the dropping wifi signal. Was just "documenting" the processes I made so that others would have a further starting point for their resolution of similar issues. Like all the issues encountered with the Phantoms, it's a work in progress by this community rather than DJI.

The copper tape, again in my opinion, has two functions - RF shielding and act as a thermal bond between the two halves of the metal case. I got lucky finding the correct tape regarding RF, as I didn't know any better prior to researching. Other posts just recommend to reuse, which could be a mistake, again in my opinion. Don't want to resolve one thing and then create another issue unbeknown....

I am by no means an expert on anything, that is why many of my comments are passive. Just like a doctor has a "practice", we all have a lot to learn by trial, error and hearing other's thoughts for same subject. I make myself laugh sometimes, cost of tape, just to ease the pain for the monies spent so far to find a resolve. I don't want this "hobby" to be a money or time pit...learning to be a technician. I just want to do aerial photography!
 
Looking at images from an rcgroups thread of the V3, I'm fairly certain no thermal compound was applied on/over the internal RF shield. Which makes sense, at least to me. Further, I would rid the mac address sticker on the module, it does nothing but insulate the cover.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthre ... 2&page=592
 
Sorry boys and girls - from the PhantomPilots Forum - The extension pdf is not allowed. I guess you'll have to imagine the template....

<------------->

I've created a drill pattern template for MY Wifi module's eventual drilling and temp testing thereafter. Just sharing with the community my efforts.

Please note: I am not drilling all the holes provided in the template, you should decide before hand and mark the holes on the template based on your needs. Further I am not drilling holes in the bottom cover at this time, without a confirmation that the V3 has them I'm not going to potentially create another problem... No warranty for accuracy provided, use at own risk, objects in mirror maybe closer.

Obviously you will have the cover off the wifi unit to drill. To drill, the pattern was set to drill from the inside of the cover(s), A piece of wood to support the cover while drilling will reduce the potential to deform the thin cover as the bit pressure is applied. And make sure you remove any and all metal shaving or burrs once drilled. You'll need to cut the template to fit within the sides of the cover, also cut out the various shapes within to allow the template to sit flush. I'll use tape to hold to the cover at the various cut openings. Again, make sure you remove any and all metal shaving or burrs once drilled.

I highly recommend replacing what ever thermal compound you want to use if you are going to drill the cover out. It's worth the time and money to make sure you're starting out with the best possible MOD.

I'll post testing result hopefully this weekend for temperature only. I don't have a spectrum analyzer handy to test for any RF leakage once done. It'll be a poke and hope process once done.
 
Ok, more results, I knew you'd be waiting...

Ambient was about 73F. again most temps leveled off within 12 minutes when the P2 cover was off, however temps with P2 cover on did tend creep up thereafter until the test was stopped at 15min. I believe their could be a thermal run away condition at some point after 15min, again your mileage may vary. Also, this is with a unit with properly applied thermal material of my choice, again your mileage may vary.

Swiss Cheese MOD - so named by DrJoe, drilled out the wifi cover to have equally spaced holes around the top cover of the V1/V2 wifi module to closely match the P2V+ V3 wifi module.

Original wifi module provided with P2V+ V2, thermal tape was 3M 8810 0.1mm, only the heat chip had thermal material applied between it and the wifi cover. "A" test point was as close to the recessed diamond as possible within 5mm, did not test at point "D" - tired of the setup, Shell = P2V+ top, the HS used was a modified copper HS 14x14x12mm, it is adhered to the recessed diamond area with the above thermal tape as well. Neither the Mosfets or internal EMI shield had any thermal compound applied. Lower board and wifi cover were left as provided from DJI.

Shell ON no-HS - 141F
Shell ON w/HS - 138F
Shell OFF no-HS - 133
Shell OFF w/HS - 127F 1HR test

Air movement within the room was never over 1mph at any time, with the exception of the following... I ran a short test (10min) prior to the final, Shell OFF w/HS, from a foot away I created a light fanning breeze. Can actually see the temp drop as the fan moved and then rise (2F) when paused. At the first point during this test at 131F, the temp went down to 103F during 8sec of fanning. Continuous fanning/pausing I was able to reach 87F as a consistent bottom. This wasn't any preplanned test and didn't see the data until the next day, shell bolted down at that point.

What does all this data say...nothing more than what's been said by others.

Reapply your thermal compound of choice
Don't leave the unit on without having some type of air flow into the cover - props running or forced air into the shell, 5min or more risk damage
You can improve results with very little effort or knowledge, you'll be admired by all...just making sure you're reading
Your ambient temp will effect your wifi module's life if not properly thermal protected.
Once cooked you can expect reduced performance, no matter how much money you throw at it. And a replacement module doesn't always resolve the problem...long term at least.

For me at my extreme ambient temps, +95F, I'll assume I can add at least 20F to any tests performed throughout this thread - all things being equal. Or in the case with the supplemental HS and proper air flow I could possible maintain near ambient temps for the module. I'm confident the results would improve without an added HS, but not at the same results as with the HS. Further I was not able to improve my FPV preview quality, I reside where my signature states. Further I have no idea what the additional electronics and battery contribute to the heat issue, not really interested in having an extra wire and logger attached to the P2V+ for the next 3 months or more.

Dear DJI, Get your **** together. Stop selling poorly engineered and tested components. Geez, you are smarter than a fifth grader, right? Build something like you'd give to your mother, so she won't be bitching at you all the time for being just like your father. And don't think for a second we won't leave you behind and take others with us, you're screwing up your success. But more importantly, you are not allowing for users to "unleash their creativity" with the poor service and less than par components. Buck up and make it right. Good night everybody!

EDIT to add: Forgot to add what results I had regarding RF effect if any to the internals and/or GPS numbers. I had no negative effects for either. I flew out about a 1000ft around rec. field, my local spot. We had one of those warm winter days, about 75F ambient with a fairly brisk wind. Total flight time was about 25 minutes (w/ 1.5 bat), with about 1/3 of the time hovering while answering a gawker's questions.
 
Adding latest changes...

I changed out the thermal compound off the heat chip from 3M 8810 0.2mm to the Fujipoly 6 W/mK 0.5mm thermal pad. The thermal performance difference was about 4 W/mK to FujiPoly's favor. Which should improve the ability to maintain a cooler module, based on previous tests using a 1mm thick Fujipoly pad of same make.

Here's a picture of the swiss cheese mod and the placement of the modified heatsink on the wifi module.
 

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errrrm that thing on top... a spider ???
oh heatsink... i must read the mod..
 

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