Who is right here?

[OWMedia]

Hello All
I'm a newbie here. P4P+ flyer which I have had since Feb and about to do my CAA PfCO course.

So.... I have been out improving my flying skills, making use of a piece of land close to my home in Surrey (UK).

The land is owned by the military, however it is open for use to the public for - as the board listing the byelaws on site say - outdoor recreational use. It is often used by dog walkers, runners, cyclists and so on. There is NO mention in the byelaws about the prohibition of the use of drones (or model aircraft).

As I have no desire to have my drone confiscated and being a generally good citizen I have always complied with the drone code, keeping 50/150m from people property and all that jazz. Additionally, on occasion where I have had people approach too close, I have landed the drone and waited until the area was clear again etc etc.

So far so good, right?

The land IS reasonably close to Farnborough airport and not too far from Odiham helicopter base but crucially where I fly is OUTSIDE the ATZ for both airports. I have checked the maps and it is not restricted or controlled airspace under any definition I can find.

The area IS in a region where military helicopters could fly at low altitude (down to 50m), but I would be fairly sure that should military craft carry out such operations they would have to issue a NOTAM not least because the airspace they would use to do this would conflict with civilian use from Farnborough airport.

I check NOTAMS - Again, no mention of any issues, so on a sunny day like today, keeping within the letter of the code and the local byelaws - I'm OK to fly, right?

I'm happily carrying out some manoeuvres and working in my technique and up pops a military guy - essentially the park ranger for this area - very friendly, but very firmly tells me that on no account can I fly here... Ever.

His reason being that a military helicopter could land at any second (hmmm) or fly low overhead and collide with my drone (not so hmmm, but still).

1. If there was a low flying sortie going on I would have seen that in the NOTAM.
2. No helicopter - military or civilian - would land unannounced without a cordon and members of the public moved well away from the area. No such precautions were in place, so I think safe to assume that wasn't about to happen.

I'm not going to have a fight but did explain very politely that I had checked all the rules and knew the regulations, had checked for NOTAM and could see no reason why I could not fly. He was not moved and I relented and packed up.

The byelaws do state that IF you are moved on for any reason by the military police or civilian police then you are obliged to do so, but one would imagine that they can only do this IF a person has broken a byelaw, not just because they feel like it.

OK, so I wont fly there again - a pity as it is SO close to home but there you go.

Question is, should I have stood my ground?

No one seemed that interested when I was standing in the same spot in sub-zero temperatures, INCLUDING the military ranger/warden who was snug in his vehicle that I passed on several occasions when entering or leaving the area without a word.

This is the first time I have been approached and kicked off an area, so just wondering what your views are.

 

[Wilbur]

I don't know what your drone rules/regulations are like over there, but they're extremely complicated and vague over here. That leads to a lot of security/rangers making their best judgment on what the laws are and enforcing what they believe to be right. There are situations where you could possibly stand your ground, but is it really worth it? I imagine the headache that would follow would be a much bigger pain than just relocating. Hopefully the coming years will bring about more concise drone laws and a more knowledgeable public.

 

[ryantrax]

Welcome to Phantom Pilots from Dayton Ohio! Good luck with your training, Fly safe and have fun!

 

[BigAl07]

Welcome to the forum

 

[Neon Euc]

Welcome. I'm not far from you at all OWMedia. I recently moved to Wimbledon but have lived in Epsom a d also Bromley. What I would do is go to Epsom race course and fly there. Much better to fly and it's always open to the public and it's not far from you. What I can say is Farnborough airport gets helicopters coming in from biggen hill so it's a busy air space when it wants to be. I just think it's more to do with the military being cautious.
( Mod Removed political comment ) but if you can... Head to box hill, right at the top... The scenery is amazing. Haven't flown off it but did go up there years ago with the intention of snowboarding down it. You will get great signal as it's just miles and miles of greenery [emoji4]

 

[Just_nick]

It's their land and airspace, so I don't see any reason why you would stand your ground unless you feel like being arrested and/or permanently banned. You cannot necessarily apply civilian laws to the military, especially on their base. That's like driving around on base using your phone while driving, because it's not banned in the state, yet it's banned on base. That argument won't fly.

 

[Timinator]

He's right but for the wrong reason. If he has jurisdiction over that area he can move you along and likely isn't obliged to give you a reason. Because it is military property, they can invoke a large number of rules that generally don't apply to civilian land. Flying on military property is chancy at best and I would essentially move along without any argument. He had already made up his mind in all likelihood the moment he saw you.

 

[gingerbloke]

I used to live in that area and flew often at Pirbright on a large open area of land. One day a 'military guy' got all hot&bothered and said I could be jailed for flying there. I packed up and left but often flew there again without problems (it was really handy on my way home from work)

For your PfCO I recommend lots of practice flying ATTI mode in windy conditions - good luck.

 

[lucky245]

I completed my Pfco with military personnel doing the training and their advice was if you are in a known military flight training area ring the airbase. They do not put out notams in the same way they wouldn’t publicise military activity anywhere else. However they did say the local military airbase would know and would give you (normally) a time frame in which there maybe flight activity in the area asked about.