Water nerves.

AIRNUTS · Jan 19, 2016

when you fly over the ocean there is less interference, no turbulence, you are flying on clean air and the range is greater than any where else,

another great flight out in to the open waters

John Locke · Jan 19, 2016

Two things you must do for water flights:

1. Do not fly firmware 1.4 or 1.5. Both have reports of sudden power shutdown.
2. Always top off your battery just before flying.

WetDog · Jan 19, 2016

John Locke said:
Two things you must do for water flights:

1. Do not fly firmware 1.4 or 1.5. Both have reports of sudden power shutdown.
2. Always top off your battery just before flying.

I've flown 1.4 around water for a long time until I stupidly 'upgraded' to 1.5. Just charge up the battery and don't try to squeeze every bit of distance out of the battery. I use the same rough plan that I do with my boat - 1/3 up, 1/3 back 1/3 reserve. And that's before the 10% your-gonna-die warning.

fastsmiles · Jan 19, 2016

The best way to get comfortable with flying over water is to do it. Make a few short flights over water and as you get more comfortable, make your flights longer. Just be diligent with your preflight list. and like John Locke said, be sure an put a full fresh charge on your batteries.
If you can, fly out against the wind and back with the wind.

trevsdad · Jan 19, 2016

Not true 'happy days'. We actually tried something similar to the ziplock bags and the quad flies just fine. The quad is not a fixed wing aircraft so there's really no aerodynamics to be concerned with. However, 'wolf' is correct since no one I know has tested the buoyancy of the system yet.

Sent from my iPad using PhantomPilots mobile app

ScopeTech · Jan 19, 2016

Wolfiesden said:
Ok, is it me or does that image make that thing look like something someone of the female persuasion would order thats shipped in a plain brown wrapper from a adult store? "Rod Recovery System" on the side? Seriously?

Seriously? Who cares what it looks like or says? Drone hits the water, sinks past five feet and a chemical reaction pops a highly visible floater attached to 100' of line - its not rocket science and costs about the same as a few beers.

ScatSpeak · Jan 19, 2016

Wolfiesden said:
Well the two 20oz bottles displace 40oz of water which yields 2.5# of buoyancy, minus the weight of the zipties and bottles. What is the flight weight of a P3A? If its 2.5# or more, it still sinks.

Each quart bag potentially displaces 2# of water, assuming its fully inflated and doesn't pop on impact. So, two bags gets you a max of 4# buoyancy.

According to the specs a P3A weighs 1280g, thats 2.8#. With the soda bottles, its still going to the bottom unless some of that mass actually provides some sort of buoyancy. Likely the plastics. But the metal will provide negative buoyancy. I am not willing to sacrifice a P3 to see what its water displacement is. Anyone else? Sure would like to know what that number really is. DJI could do the test on a DOA or damaged drone. But they probably won't.

If you do nothing, it'll sink like a stone... you could use larger water bottles if desired for improved buoyancy to be sure... and for the quart bags, Captain Bob did do a weighted test (look for his other videos) but just not from altitude and not with an actual Phantom...

Still, the point here was that you have creative options that can reduce some of the stress and risk that open water flight might induce... the choice of flying, not flying, buoyancy options or not are all those of the pilot... there are obviously inherent risks in any flight due to many things beyond our control.... your choices will determine exposure and recovery to/from the risks... obviously, many people do it all the time with no problems or having need for counter-measures... but there are also those who did have problems and lost their Phantom to Poseidon... even if they used the tiny little GetterBack that's quite difficult to spot from any distance...

YMMV

skyhighdiver · Jan 19, 2016

ScatSpeak said:
You've got a couple of ugly but very functional options:

Use 2 empty ~20oz water bottles and Zip ties to create a couple of pontoons

Use 2 empty 1quart Ziploc bags, inflate them with a couple of straws and Zip tie them to the bottom struts (i.e. water wings as in this video below)

Both of these will impair flight duration and heighten the impact of winds but at least it won't sink to the bottom...

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or better looking and smaller
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GadgetGuy · Jan 19, 2016

John Locke said:
Two things you must do for water flights:

1. Do not fly firmware 1.4 or 1.5. Both have reports of sudden power shutdown.
2. Always top off your battery just before flying.

Except your #2 precludes #1 from happening.
1.4 is absolutely fine over water. 200 flights with no issues.
It was only when I flew over land without topping off first that I had an "incident"...It's the failure to top off a discharging battery that is the trigger.
The sudden power shutdowns are not random, but require a combination of very specific set of circumstances to be triggered (battery in a discharge condition such that DJI GO readouts are incorrect, cold battery (70°F or less), and full throttle).
Can't speak to 1.5. Never installed it.

GadgetGuy · Jan 19, 2016

jscope said:
Seriously? Who cares what it looks like or says? Drone hits the water, sinks past five feet and a chemical reaction pops a highly visible floater attached to 100' of line - its not rocket science and costs about the same as a few beers.

After it sinks past 5 feet and triggers, it's fish food anyway. What's the point...
Time to buy a new bird.

Donald · Jan 19, 2016

Nerve-wracking indeed.

Gsujeff55 said:
This just happened to me yesterday. Flew out over rivers and marsh about 18000 ft with what I thought was a 10-12mph tail wind. Turned around when it told me to return home which usually leaves me about 25% battery after landing. My percentage kept dropping and I felt like distance was getting shorter at a snails pace. The bird wouldn't go over 18mph. I started sweating like a savage when I was at 25% and still 8000 ft away. Finally heard it and got eyes on it. I was prepared to swim to catch it if it started landing lol. Managed to get it at my feet at 11%. Scary stuff. This probably won't ease the original poster's nerves, but know that I was over 3 miles away. 300 feet should not make you nervous at all.

GadgetGuy · Jan 19, 2016

skyhighdiver said:
or better looking and smaller
Home
View attachment 41205

Me wonders if this should be called "Get HER back" and repurposed...
"Girlfriend Recovery System"...Hmmm

GadgetGuy · Jan 19, 2016

Gsujeff55 said:
This just happened to me yesterday. Flew out over rivers and marsh about 18000 ft with what I thought was a 10-12mph tail wind. Turned around when it told me to return home which usually leaves me about 25% battery after landing. My percentage kept dropping and I felt like distance was getting shorter at a snails pace. The bird wouldn't go over 18mph. I started sweating like a savage when I was at 25% and still 8000 ft away. Finally heard it and got eyes on it. I was prepared to swim to catch it if it started landing lol. Managed to get it at my feet at 11%. Scary stuff. This probably won't ease the original poster's nerves, but know that I was over 3 miles away. 300 feet should not make you nervous at all.

Try that from the end of a 30 foot tall 1,000 foot long pier, in high winds encountered on the return, and while trying to get it back over the pier, watch as it reaches the 10% Autoland and starts descending, I got lucky and managed to get it over a 10 foot wide section 200 feet away from me. Pucker moment! Remember to put it back in P-GPS for landing. ATTI in wind is a challenge!

cash70 · Jan 19, 2016

Wolfiesden said:
I agree. I will eventually get out over water. It won't be soon. But I will. I would like to get along the lake (Lake Michigan) to get some video of the shore ice thats likely forming soon.

My 3rd flight was over Lake Monona, in Madison. It put my nerves at ease once I realized that I would probably be out of a P3P if I crashed over land or water from 300'. By my 5th flight I was over Lake Michigan, Bradford Beach. Flew up and down the beach. Even went over the Northpoint Lighthouse.

You want to see the video? I quickly switched from video to still to take some shots. I could not wait to check it out until I realized that I never went back to video.

Hopefully the weather will be nice this weekend. I want to go back to Bradford Beach and try some sunrise shots. Also the Pierhead Lighthouse and the Museum.

Sent from my iPad using PhantomPilots mobile app

0DRK3RT · Jan 19, 2016

Remember to fly it more than 60ft away from the home point QUICKLY when over water. If it loses connection or goes into RTH inside that distance and you're already over water, it could auto land in the water.

ParsnipHysorter · Jan 19, 2016

This is what I've done. Keychain floats from West Marine zip-tied to legs. Then it still fit in my case too... Had no noticeable impact on performance. Luckily during my flights over the Bering Sea I did not get an opportunity to test if these would actually float it, but they are very buoyant so my guess is they would have.

John Locke · Jan 19, 2016

ParsnipHysorter said:
This is what I've done. Keychain floats from West Marine zip-tied to legs. Then it still fit in my case too... Had no noticeable impact on performance. Luckily during my flights over the Bering Sea I did not get an opportunity to test if these would actually float it, but they are very buoyant so my guess is they would have.

View attachment 41208

Why not test the floats? Take the floats off the Phantom, tie them together and start adding weight to them in water. You could use 1/2" drive sockets to incrementally add weight. Weigh the Phantom and compare the actual weight the key-bobs will float. I think the Phantom weighs about 2.8lbs, so if the key-bobs will hold 2.8lbs of 1/2 sockets, you're good. However, I'm not sure it will save a Phantom if it gets totally soaked. Recovery may not accomplish much unless you have insurance (which isn't a bad idea if you fly water much).

Nice idea though, inexpensive! Let us know how viable it is if you validate the concept.

With The Birds · Jan 19, 2016

ParsnipHysorter said:
This is what I've done. Keychain floats from West Marine zip-tied to legs. Then it still fit in my case too... Had no noticeable impact on performance. Luckily during my flights over the Bering Sea I did not get an opportunity to test if these would actually float it, but they are very buoyant so my guess is they would have.

View attachment 41208

When i first looked at that pic i thought you keep my phantom in a picnic basket

Nice neat installation there.

Was there any percieved difference in flight performance?

ParsnipHysorter · Jan 19, 2016

With The Birds said:
When i first looked at that pic i thought you keep my phantom in a picnic basket

Nice neat installation there.

Was there any percieved difference in flight performance?

It must have had a performance impact but it was imperceptible. The weight of the keychain floats was almost nothing -- I imagine they undoubtedly increased drag but not by any significant degree because it seemed to have no problems getting up to full speed in short order.

John Locke said:
Why not test the floats? Take the floats off the Phantom, tie them together and start adding weight to them in water. You could use 1/2" drive sockets to incrementally add weight. Weigh the Phantom and compare the actual weight the key-bobs will float. I think the Phantom weighs about 2.8lbs, so if the key-bobs will hold 2.8lbs of 1/2 sockets, you're good. However, I'm not sure it will save a Phantom if it gets totally soaked.

Yes indeed that would be a good way to test. I was too lazy to try that.

Regarding recovery of a drowned P3, they can be salvaged -- a person I know crashed theirs in salt water, scooped it out and flushed with fresh and let it dry for a month strait. Battery was toast but the bird was fine and still is to this day... so it is possible to salvage them, even from salt water.