Waiver denied please help to answer FAA questions

Captain Bo · Sep 12, 2019

Been denied 5 times for Daylight Operation 107.29 and finally may have a chance to get it, but FAA has these last questions before approving the waiver. I have exhausted everything i got and asking for my fellow pilots in helping to answer these questions before i make a final responds. Please help. Thank you.

Describe how the RPIC will avoid other aircraft during darkness.
a. What will they do if other aircraft are located during flight?
What procedures will be followed to ensure all the required persons participating in the operation have knowledge to recognize and overcome visual illusions caused by darkness and understand physiological conditions which may degrade night vision?
a. How will the RPIC and any other participants in the operation demonstrate knowledge about night operation risks, such as overcoming night visual illusions, limitations to night vision, and conditions that can affect night vision?
b. How will the Responsible Person verify the knowledge has been obtained and documented?

skymonkey · Sep 12, 2019

Hope this helps you out.

https://www.faa.gov/uas/resources/policy_library/section_352_responses/media/107_29_for_section_352.pdf

How to Apply for a Daylight Waiver | Aloft

Curious about Part 107 waivers? Learn how to get your daylight waiver by reading Kittyhawk's tips from our own successful daylight waiver application.

kittyhawk.io

https://www.thedroneu.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/Steps-to-Daylight-Waiver.pdf

Propsontop · Sep 13, 2019

The first question you posted should be foremost on your mind every time you fly regardless. For the others:
Do you have a formalized training policy? Most of the FAA's questions you posted can be answered through training your folks, making up a test or tests for them to take, and filing those as yours and their proof of knowledge. I keep all the trainings that I give my people documented for my company this way, with every pilot, MO and VO tested, graded, rated, renewed every 90 days, and placed in their file in the event of these or similar questions from the FAA. To be as legal as possible as the Responsible Person for your business you should make up a letter of appointment naming you the Instructor, Senior Pilot, and/or Responsible Person and have it signed by management or the Principals (or even yourself if you own the business) and also kept on file. It can and sometimes does put you through a lot of extra work to document everything, but it also covers your six in the event of disaster. With the FAA it shows proof that you are taking safety seriously, and not just grabbing a drone and a battery and running off to fly with no thought for the safety of the mission or the public at large. If faced with a lawsuit it will help show the judge that you (and your company) have taken every precaution possible to prevent accidents. The reality of it is that proper documentation will help keep the word "negligent" out of a judge's consideration. Statistically that one word alone can increase a settlement amount by 4 to 10 times the cost. Financial issues aside, though, the safety of the public and of your team should always be your first priority anyway. Good luck with your waiver!

The Real Rob · Sep 13, 2019

Hi Bo, I feel your pain, 3 denials in and then the FAA starts with questions like yours...
Safety is their goal, period. They also seem to enjoy LOTS of words along with referencing their own materials.
My response is simple, answer the questions truthfully and then set up a training session with you & your VO to review the materials. Make up and take a written test. Review the test and go over any areas that are unclear in the first go around. Document all of this.
They really want to know how are you going to mediate any risk and the favorite answer is through training and review of materials and procedures.
You're at a good spot in the process, they are asking you things that were missing in the original request. Submit the supplemental info requested and you're on your way.

Don't give up.

The following is from my initial request, I hope it helps...."PIC will be using a visual observer (VO) at all times during night operations. PIC and VO will be required to read and comprehend Chapter 3, pages 27-35 of the Risk Management Handbook, FAA publication FAA-H-8083-2 as well as Chapter 13 -Night Operations in the Aeronautical Information Manual (AIM), focusing on visual illusions of aircraft movement. Topics covered will include but not be limited to autokinesis or phantom motion, fixation, reversible perspective illusion, size-distance illusions and flicker vertigo. PIC will document and maintain a file of all personnel, including PIC having reviewed and understood the above materials before any flight operations. PIC and VO will also periodically review the material to ensure compliance as well as searching out any new information that would become available in order to maintain proper level of safety and awareness of any new/continuing night flight hazard identification."

Captain Bo · Sep 14, 2019

Propsontop said:
The first question you posted should be foremost on your mind every time you fly regardless. For the others:
Do you have a formalized training policy? Most of the FAA's questions you posted can be answered through training your folks, making up a test or tests for them to take, and filing those as yours and their proof of knowledge. I keep all the trainings that I give my people documented for my company this way, with every pilot, MO and VO tested, graded, rated, renewed every 90 days, and placed in their file in the event of these or similar questions from the FAA. To be as legal as possible as the Responsible Person for your business you should make up a letter of appointment naming you the Instructor, Senior Pilot, and/or Responsible Person and have it signed by management or the Principals (or even yourself if you own the business) and also kept on file. It can and sometimes does put you through a lot of extra work to document everything, but it also covers your six in the event of disaster. With the FAA it shows proof that you are taking safety seriously, and not just grabbing a drone and a battery and running off to fly with no thought for the safety of the mission or the public at large. If faced with a lawsuit it will help show the judge that you (and your company) have taken every precaution possible to prevent accidents. The reality of it is that proper documentation will help keep the word "negligent" out of a judge's consideration. Statistically that one word alone can increase a settlement amount by 4 to 10 times the cost. Financial issues aside, though, the safety of the public and of your team should always be your first priority anyway. Good luck with your waiver!

Thank you vey much Propsontop!

Captain Bo · Sep 14, 2019

The Real Rob said:
Hi Bo, I feel your pain, 3 denials in and then the FAA starts with questions like yours...
Safety is their goal, period. They also seem to enjoy LOTS of words along with referencing their own materials.
My response is simple, answer the questions truthfully and then set up a training session with you & your VO to review the materials. Make up and take a written test. Review the test and go over any areas that are unclear in the first go around. Document all of this.
They really want to know how are you going to mediate any risk and the favorite answer is through training and review of materials and procedures.
You're at a good spot in the process, they are asking you things that were missing in the original request. Submit the supplemental info requested and you're on your way.

Don't give up.

The following is from my initial request, I hope it helps...."PIC will be using a visual observer (VO) at all times during night operations. PIC and VO will be required to read and comprehend Chapter 3, pages 27-35 of the Risk Management Handbook, FAA publication FAA-H-8083-2 as well as Chapter 13 -Night Operations in the Aeronautical Information Manual (AIM), focusing on visual illusions of aircraft movement. Topics covered will include but not be limited to autokinesis or phantom motion, fixation, reversible perspective illusion, size-distance illusions and flicker vertigo. PIC will document and maintain a file of all personnel, including PIC having reviewed and understood the above materials before any flight operations. PIC and VO will also periodically review the material to ensure compliance as well as searching out any new information that would become available in order to maintain proper level of safety and awareness of any new/continuing night flight hazard identification."

You made my day The Real Rob. I will not give up as your reply and information will greatly help me and others to finally getting approved by FAA. God Bless you my friend!

fbrickphoto · Sep 14, 2019

I am kind of lost here. Can someone please explain why the FAA is asking questions about night operations for a daylight operation waiver? I do like The Real Rob’s reply under “Don’t give up.” It never states that any of this has been done, only that it will be done for night operations, and since the OP is asking for a waiver for a “Daylight Operation”, well…. ?

daveisim · Sep 14, 2019

It's easy. Quit trying to do it all from scratch. The FAA has published what they need.

See https://www.faa.gov/uas/resources/p...52_responses/media/107_29_for_section_352.pdf .

Copy, add, change to suit only finer details, like position light colors. Attach your training material / 20-question multiple choice written exam document (if needed, search the site for previous persons test or PM me for it). Poof, you've got a waiver.

Earthman · Sep 15, 2019

fbrickphoto said:
I am kind of lost here. Can someone please explain why the FAA is asking questions about night operations for a daylight operation waiver? I do like The Real Rob’s reply under “Don’t give up.” It never states that any of this has been done, only that it will be done for night operations, and since the OP is asking for a waiver for a “Daylight Operation”, well…. ?

All flights must occur between 30-min before sunup and 30-min after sundown, which includes daylight hours; i.e., between sunup and sundown. Any flight outside of those times; i.e, during darkness, requires a waiver of the rule requiring that all flights occur only during the window of time previously described. The waiver must be granted by the FAA.

The Op is asking for a waiver of the rule requiring him to fly only during the window of time previously described.

The Op should consider taking this training course for night flying and waivers: Night Operations Online Training Course for the Night Waiver

I have not taken the course but based on the course description, it looks like it will help you understand the issues the FAA is concerned about and say the right things in your waiver application.

makneyse · Sep 16, 2019

@fbrickphoto, it's confusing but when someone is getting a night waiver, it's in reference to the Daylight Operation 107.29 section of the Part 107 law. Basically, you're only allowed to fly during the day and the waiver is requesting for that restriction to be waived. I agree, it's confusing and probably not the best choice of wording.