The most ignorant thing one can do while flying a drone

[Alvaro L]

Signal stregnth would not be a problem, the only risk there is BVLOS, you won't react propertly to any incoming aircraft because you don't have a complete situational awareness, even if you try to recover the drone. The furthest the less you can appreciate the real drone location respect to other things. But again, this a limitation of current tech, the ideal situation is that either you can track other aircraft using that space or ATC can track you, so you can be redirected to a safe place. I think people try do to things the current tech is not really ready for.

 

[JSKCKNIT]

This morning on good morning America they had video taking out the door of a helicopter showing the pollen blowing in the rotor wash! He was flying just above the pines so you never know how low you can run into trouble! Just look at the next thread 3.5 miles and back his personal best! oops makes you wonder why they make them so they can go that far!

Last Summer, there was a bear in the neighborhood. There was a helicopter maybe 100' up filming the whole capture. You're absolutely right in saying that you never know how low you can run into trouble.

 

[Tenisyn]

IFR is like flying a plane with no windows and on data provided by a small screen. But there is always a pilot in command and that's the important issue here.

The FAA should look into this.

You could crash against an light aircraft or a helo suddenly appearing over the top of the mountain. Even if there is only a collision avoidance maneuver by the aircraft with no crash, it will be in the logs, reported and investigated by the regulator. Just a small collision or an engine sucking your bird down could land you a bill in the thousands in the blink of an eye. And a fine as well....

This can be done anywhere, why limit it to just mountains?

We need a good safety culture, is the only way we can do serious business with drones.

I agree with you wholeheartedly. Imo, the keys to accomplishing this are airspace situational awareness, coordination with authorities, competent visual observation, ability to maintain control of your bird, and proper mission planning.

Aviate, Navigate, Communicate. In that order.

 

[Tenisyn]

Tenisyn above says :
And Rarity is an arbitrary value. 200 years ago, it was rare to see a man in the air. Today it is commonplace.

200 years ago if a man was in the air....he had to just fell off a clif !

Or be in a balloon, my friend. #johnlamountain

 

[MotorCycle-Man]

True and in a basket hangn off a hot air balloon.....that had to be scary times !

 

[Tenisyn]

True and in a basket hangn off a hot air balloon.....that had to be scary times !

LaMountain had faith in his bird and his knowledge of which way the winds were blowing. He took the “non-serviceable” Atlantic, fixed her up, and did something that had never been done before.

 

[Alvaro L]

The FAA should look into this.

This can be done anywhere, why limit it to just mountains?



I agree with you wholeheartedly. Imo, the keys to accomplishing this are airspace situational awareness, coordination with authorities, competent visual observation, ability to maintain control of your bird, and proper mission planning.

Aviate, Navigate, Communicate. In that order.

I was only making an example of why BVLOS could be a bad idea. In fact, I have encountered this scenario at least two times but my drone was in close range. I rarely use all my VLOS space. In USA the light aircraft category is much more developed than in Europe, so I imagine it could be a more prevalent issue there. Apart from what you have said, it is also about clear failure modes and robust failsafes and that's one main shorcoming of the dronery we use. We can't figure out why they drop like stones and DJI is not telling anything so regulators will always look down on us till things like this are solved.

 

[Tenisyn]

I was only making an example of why BVLOS could be a bad idea. In fact, I have encountered this scenario at least two times but my drone was in close range. I rarely use all my VLOS space. In USA the light aircraft category is much more developed than in Europe, so I imagine it could be a more prevalent issue there. Apart from what you have said, it is also about clear failure modes and robust failsafes and that's one main shorcoming of the dronery we use. We can't figure out why they drop like stones and DJI is not telling anything so regulators will always look down on us till things like this are solved.

I’m totally cool with the fact that we started this thread with the premise that BVLOS is the most irresponsible thing you can do with a drone and we’ve advanced to “could be a bad idea”. I call that progress!

With regard to lack of clear failure modes and failsafes, it’s incumbent on the pilot to know their bird inside and out. For example, one flight I was recording as the sunset, and had my video distort quite a bit. Couple nights later, was flying again as the sun set and completely lost connection again. I hypothesize that these birds(specifically the video transmission links) are affected by sun spikes. I adjust my operations based on that hypothesis. Haven’t had any sunset surprises since.

 

[Alvaro L]

Both as a bad idea, an irresponsible thing to do and a disregard of other people using that airspace. I have more adjectives if you want. I mean always unregulated BVLOS that some people sport and condone here, if you are certified for BVLOS then I have nothing to say but congratulations !

With regard to lack of clear failure modes and failsafes, it’s incumbent on the pilot to know their bird inside and out. For example, one flight I was recording as the sunset, and had my video distort quite a bit. Couple nights later, was flying again as the sun set and completely lost connection again. I hypothesize that these birds(specifically the video transmission links) are affected by sun spikes. I adjust my operations based on that hypothesis. Haven’t had any sunset surprises since.

If you think that hypothesizing without proof is good or acceptable as an argument in regard to the FAA or any other regulator I think you are mistaken. Failure modes is the exact chain of events that leads to a critical hardware failure and DJI is quite secretive about them (charred connections, battery shutdowns). FAA does not care about payload software (camera etc) because they have little to do with a safe flight, except from the fact that in DJI drones a software crash in the RC app can lead to a C&C shutdown, which makes them uncertifiablein their current form IMO. Ideally C&C link should survive any kind of software crash or if the payload software crash down. BTW I doubt sun has anything to do with video downlink.

 

[Tenisyn]

Both as a bad idea, an irresponsible thing to do and a disregard of other people using that airspace.

What if you can visually confirm that the entire airspace is empty? As long as you’re able to maintain airspace SA (knowing the position of your bird and all others), have a visual on the entire airspace in which you’ll be operating, are always prepared to get out of the way of manned aircraft, and are operating in Class G airspace?

I believe that the potential benefit to the public good with regard to SAR is too important to categorize all BVLOS operations as unsafe. Unlike Europe, there is a ton of empty space in the US. Hikers get lost. Children get lost. People in general, get lost.

If you think that hypothesizing without proof is good or acceptable as an argument in regard to the FAA or any other regulator I think you are mistaken. Failure modes is the exact chain of events that leads to a hardware failure and DJI is quite secretive about them (charred connections, battery shutdowns). FAA does not care about payload software (camera etc) because they have little to do with a safe flight, except from the fact that in DJI drones a crash in the camera app can lead to a C&C shutdown, which makes them uncertifiablein their current form. Ideally C&C link should stay if the payload software crash down. BTW I doubt sun has anything to do with video downlink.

Hypothesizing is what you do prior to testing. Hypothesize, test, document results, confirm/revise/disprove original hypothesis.

Re: the sun. No one ever does, but when you have 1300 w/m (estimated, I’m not a phenomenal mathelete) coming at you straight from the horizon, that’s a lot of energy. Especially when you start throwing trig functions in there and how they relate to the signal strength between bird and controller.

View attachment 110207

 

[Alvaro L]

What if you can visually confirm that the entire airspace is empty? As long as you’re able to maintain airspace SA (knowing the position of your bird and all others), have a visual on the entire airspace in which you’ll be operating, are always prepared to get out of the way of manned aircraft, and are operating in Class G airspace?

I believe that the potential benefit to the public good with regard to SAR is too important to categorize all BVLOS operations as unsafe. Unlike Europe, there is a ton of empty space in the US. Hikers get lost. Children get lost. People in general, get lost.

if you are a certified operator to do BVLOS, then yes go for it. Do I think a phanto 4 pro is robust enough solution beyond VLOS ? I don't honestly think so, besides you can't always assure the ops conditions suits BVLOS. Are there many scenarios where you would be called to do it? Not so many. You wouldn't be able to fly with helos in the vicinity (they basically hate us) which is common in SR. For instance, at least here all helo operations are shut at night because they are VFR only; so at night, using thermal cameras, in class G airspace, no natural parcs, no urban areas, in a fully certified BVLOS operation, yes I can see some but not that many business.

 

[Tenisyn]

if you are a certified operator to do BVLOS, then yes go for it. Do I think a phanto 4 pro is robust enough solution beyond VLOS ? I don't honestly think so, besides you can't always assure the ops conditions suits BVLOS. Are there many scenarios where you would be called to do it? Not so many. You wouldn't be able to fly with helos in the vicinity (they basically hate us) which is common in SR. For instance, at least here all helo operations are shut at night because they are VFR only; so at night, using thermal cameras, in class G airspace, no natural parcs, no urban areas, in a fully certified BVLOS operation, yes I can see some but not that many business.

Helos are limited by their gas tanks and the amount of time it takes to RTB, refuel, and come back. UASs are limited by the number of batteries the pilot has with them. There are huge advantages in terms of fuel cost and time on target.