Stock P2V 2.7 KM (8,850') Long Range Test

[PVFlyer]

Regarding FCC rules and regulations, I found a few links that are more readable by most of P2V pilots.

http://www.afar.net/tutorials/fcc-rules/
http://www.bitstorm.com/fcc-regulations/

 

[phantomguy]

PVFlyer here is the set up. Will test distance tomorrow.

looks quite nice. Can you test with a set of brand new batteries in your transmitter and test sideways and non-sideways range? Currently Im running stock transmitter and stock P2V and just a 5dbi TPlink Omni whip on the extender. I'm still hesitant to touch the P2V but really would like to have better front/back range without having to turn it sideways. Here is about the max range I get now. Comfortable with this range but only if I can get it without having to face specific directions.

 

[gfredrone]

PVFlyer here is the set up. Will test distance tomorrow.

It looks very nice and small form factor.

After the first range test, you may try to shift the half sphere further away from the stock internal antenna. I suggest to segregate them minimum 1 wavelength (12.5cm) to maximize diversity gain, if feasible.

I just posted todays result in the FPVLR thread. I'll try shift to maximize diversity gain.

 

[nhoover]

Well, after a couple of failures yesterday, I finally got a good distance run today. Flytrex says 2.87km (9436'). That's an unmodified P2V and TX using a 9 dBi directional on the repeater with a 5 dBi omni. It is funny how sometimes it just works and other times not. Two days ago in the same place I got almost as far, but yesterday, trying twice, it was only 6000-6500'. Flying about the same height on all those runs. It was slightly over 400' so I don't really want to post the video. I wonder how far it would go at an even higher altitude. Or using a 14 dBi directional. It was about 12 minutes of flight, landing with 52% battery. These are the most amazing little flying cameras!

I noticed a good thing with the new 2.0 firmware that would help if you are trying altitude tests. The RTH vertical speed used to be 1.5m/s 3.3mph but now is increased to 3 m/s (the supposed max). It seemed that when doing an RTH from 400', it descended to 100m at an even higher speed (more like 4.5m/s). Then from 100m until something over 20m it was 3m/s. Can anyone else confirm these vertical speeds?

 

[phantomguy]

I hope with the next firmware update DJI either increases the RTH altitude or even better, allows the user to pre-configure the RTH altitude via the software. 20meters just isn't high enough IMO. 150 to 175 feet would be preferable to me.

 

[BenDronePilot]

PVFlyer here is the set up. Will test distance tomorrow.

looks quite nice. Can you test with a set of brand new batteries in your transmitter and test sideways and non-sideways range? Currently Im running stock transmitter and stock P2V and just a 5dbi TPlink Omni whip on the extender. I'm still hesitant to touch the P2V but really would like to have better front/back range without having to turn it sideways. Here is about the max range I get now. Comfortable with this range but only if I can get it without having to face specific directions.

If you don't want to touch your P2V and get better range than you are no you can add amplification to your repeater. You can substantially improve your overall FPV range doing that. You will also get better FPV Range and reliability using a high gain Helical antenna. And with or without amplification you will always be able to go farther with the Vision pointed sideways using the stock antennas on the vision. But if you are happy with the Distance you're getting now but want that in any direction then switching out to the High Gain LHCP Helical and adding Amplification will definitely do the trick for you. I got 1.2km Distance at 350ft altitude with any orientation running 2watt through a 12dbi rhcp Helical and the stock vision antennas. I used 640x480 Preview Quality and there was a lot of wifi signals near me. You'll get even further depending where you fly and using an lhcp antenna.

As far as amplification goes I used a Sunhans 2watt wifi amp. It's power supply is 6v 2amp. I've heard from at least 1 other person running it off of a 2amp USB port from a portable battery so that's an easy way to power it and keep things portable.

 

[PVFlyer]

I got 1.2km Distance at 350ft altitude with any orientation running 2watt through a 12dbi rhcp Helical and the stock vision antennas. I used 640x480 Preview Quality and there was a lot of wifi signals near me. You'll get even further depending where you fly and using an lhcp antenna.

As far as amplification goes I used a Sunhans 2watt wifi amp. It's power supply is 6v 2amp. I've heard from at least 1 other person running it off of a 2amp USB port from a portable battery so that's an easy way to power it and keep things portable.

Vision camera is LHCP, though it contains some linear component and little RHCP component (maybe 8-10dBi less RHCP). If you match RHCP antenna to Vision camera, it wastes a LOT of RF power. Your 12dBi RHCP helical is equivalent to only 2-4dBi LHCP performance, and with a very narrow beam width. For your 2W RF power + 12dBi helical, you could easily get 3KM+ with proper matching antennas. However, your EIRP is 32W (45dBm, 33 + 12) or so, which is way higher than the legal limit.

 

[gpauk]

Yep -- Better to use a linear polarised antenna than a wrong handed CP antenna, that's the worst combination to use.

 

[phantomguy]

Is this really a "distance" record for FLytrex if you are driving behind it?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBj3ntfzCxg

 

[xgeek]

He was obviously following in a vehicle on the road below.

 

[SilentAV8R]

Regarding FCC rules and regulations, I found a few links that are more readable by most of P2V pilots.

http://www.afar.net/tutorials/fcc-rules/
http://www.bitstorm.com/fcc-regulations/

Those cover the power requirements nicely.

But this does an equally nice job of making clear the rules regarding antennas on certified Part 15 Equipment.

http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?SI ... 4&rgn=div8

Everybody in the US seems all worried and concerned about the FAA yet I rarely see anything about the FCC, whose rules exist and are very clear. For commercial operators with insurance, ask your agent if you are covered if you are using equipment that is not in compliance with FCC regulations.

 

[themosttoys]

Regarding FCC rules and regulations, I found a few links that are more readable by most of P2V pilots.

http://www.afar.net/tutorials/fcc-rules/
http://www.bitstorm.com/fcc-regulations/

Those cover the power requirements nicely.

But this does an equally nice job of making clear the rules regarding antennas on certified Part 15 Equipment.

http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?SI ... 4&rgn=div8

Everybody in the US seems all worried and concerned about the FAA yet I rarely see anything about the FCC, whose rules exist and are very clear. For commercial operators with insurance, ask your agent if you are covered if you are using equipment that is not in compliance with FCC regulations.

Awe, you guys are ruining one of the surprises awaiting our most ignorant and arrogant antenna vendor.

You are absolutely correct, the FAA has not yet gained a strong foothold of regulations, but the FCC is firmly entrenched.

 

[phantomguy]

Which vendor is selling antenna amplifiers?

 

[SilentAV8R]

Which vendor is selling antenna amplifiers?

Is does not have to be an amplifier. ANY aftermarket antenna is not legal. The ONLY legal antenna(s) are the one(s) that was submitted for testing for FCC certification. Just because it is being sold does not mean it is legal for you to use. At least in the US.

Now, it is not very likely that the FCC is going to come looking for you. However, in the case of an accident/incident, then operating an illegal system might be one more thing to get you for. Pretty much that same with lots of laws. Nothing happens until you get caught.

 

[PVFlyer]

Regarding FCC rules and regulations, I found a few links that are more readable by most of P2V pilots.

http://www.afar.net/tutorials/fcc-rules/
http://www.bitstorm.com/fcc-regulations/

Those cover the power requirements nicely.

But this does an equally nice job of making clear the rules regarding antennas on certified Part 15 Equipment.

http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?SI ... 4&rgn=div8

Everybody in the US seems all worried and concerned about the FAA yet I rarely see anything about the FCC, whose rules exist and are very clear. For commercial operators with insurance, ask your agent if you are covered if you are using equipment that is not in compliance with FCC regulations.

I'm not living in the US, and unfamiliar with FCC rules. I thought all you experienced RC/FPV pilots in the US may know well about FCC rules and EIRP, until I read some Wifi booster/amplifier mods together with high gain antennas recently. I'm a bit surprised to be the one (a nosy Asian) in this forum reminding you FCC rules.

 

[phantomguy]

Reminds me of the laws surrounding legalities of stores in the USA that can legally sell certain paraphernalia designed for smoking. But it instantly becomes illegal once it's used in the wrong manner

Or how almost every car parts vendor in the USA legally sells accessories with an 'off road use' only label when they know the majority of those items will be used on road

Or automotive window tint shops sell and install window tint darker than that states laws allow...

Or....

Welcome to America.

 

[PVFlyer]

PVFlyer,
first I want to thank you for being the one to discover about the LHCP phantom V2 antennas.
You should not worry, there won't be any amplifiers being sold on my website, since I have no time, and also because it's so easy to import them from China at a very low price, that it makes no commercial sense to do so and resell them here.

I am doing well with Phantom pilots, but really most of the antennas I make are 1.2 GHz for analog fpv.

In this country it's still legal to sell antennas, it's the responsibility of the buyer to use them in accordance to FCC regulations here or other organizations that implement rules on radio frequencies and transmissions in other countries.

Also you must be aware that 90% of my customers are outside the USA, mostly are in Europe since I moved from Italy last June, less than 1 year ago, and before I was selling mostly in Europe.

I wonder why all this hostility against me from a few people, just because I make a good product, people are happy about the antennas, and I am passionate about what I do. I understand have a competitive spirit, (used to be a sprinter in college so it's innate), I always had to be the kid to get there first, to walk up the stairs first etc etc.
Maybe that's why someone is saying I am arrogant, but trust me I am not an arrogant person.

Thanks again for your work and for being a pioneer for this community's benefit.

Tony at fpvlr.com

I have never been hostility against you or anybody in this forum. In fact, I respect you (your innovation of half sphere and parasitic disk as well as quick response to market demand) and referred some P2V pilots in HK buying antennas from you. Keep up the good work.

I'm not worrying you or anybody (we all are adults) selling/using Wifi booster as long as they know the local rules and what they are doing as a friendly reminder.

 

[themosttoys]

Which vendor is selling antenna amplifiers?

Is does not have to be an amplifier. ANY aftermarket antenna is not legal. The ONLY legal antenna(s) are the one(s) that was submitted for testing for FCC certification. Just because it is being sold does not mean it is legal for you to use. At least in the US.

Now, it is not very likely that the FCC is going to come looking for you. However, in the case of an accident/incident, then operating an illegal system might be one more thing to get you for. Pretty much that same with lots of laws. Nothing happens until you get caught.

thank you for pointing this out,
so what you are saying is that people like "themosttoys" who are flying with a 13dbi helix from Circular Wireless are doing so illegally?

Sorry to hear that, he should use them more sensibly!

Not that bright are you? Even with all these links to help you.

If you recall, I was one of the first people to welcome and praise your work when you joined this forum. I even sent business your way.

You call yourself a gentleman, yet, if I recall, the last time you wrongly accused me of something, you referred to me as a seven year old. Perhaps "gentleman" is slightly different when translated from Italian.

In any case, I'm glad to hear that you won't be putting your business at risk by selling illegal offerings. I am an entrepreneur and do support you in your business venture. Believe it or not, I really do wish you the best. There are only a few situations that cause me to have a problem, one being when someone decides that they don't need to play by the same rules (laws) as everyone else. Speaking of business, the reason I've not been around lately is that I've been busy taking care of business (legally) as it is that time of the year (taxes). As someone who manufactures and sells goods internationally, I'm sure you too must be busy dealing with taxes. It is MUCH better in Florida lately than it was back in the 80's & 90's, but still lots of paperwork.

Listen, it's clear that you and your followers don't want or need me here anymore and that's fine. I won't list all my contributions to this community, I only hope those that I've tried to help (with unbiased, free advice) are better off because of it. I'll gladly fade into the background on the P2V as I'm happy with it the way it is and I'm turning my attention toward other toys.

PVFlyer, sorry your thread got drug into this. I will exit stage left. BTW, sorry you lost your P2V, the P2V+ looks nice, I hope you do plan to get one, I'll probably pick one up.

Cheers

 

[SilentAV8R]

I'll butt out as well. My only intention was to inform other people in the US who may be thinking of changing their systems what the FCC regulations are. People are free to do what they want. You all have a nice life.

 

[PVFlyer]

Re: Lost my P2V

After scanning the video for a few days by a custom scanner program, my P2V was spotted about 2 meters away from the pond (somewhere highlighted in blue, just a few pixels showing in the video for less than a second which is no way to spot her by human eyes). Last Saturday morning (a rainy day), my friend flew his P2V to the pond and took a picture as a proof right after a thunder storm. She showed up at the edge of the pond (highlighted in red), probably the rain carried her there. My friend sent such picture to me (I was not there) during his departure of the field, because of another thunder storm heading there. I drove to the field in afternoon right after the thunder storm over, but I was no longer be able to find her. It's very likely the **** rain pushing her into the pond.

The shame is I knew her there (located by both GPS and Wifi Analyzer just about 10-20M away) but couldn't find her. I spotted her, but couldn't save her eventually. I lost her forever. RIP my little P2V, I will always miss you.

I probably figured out why my P2V went down, as my friend experienced the exact same scary case today.

My friend flew his P2V the same path as I did and lost my P2V several weeks ago. When he initiated RTH 500M away at 100M altitude, and his P2V was flying back all the way until 200M away from the home-point (almost the same spot as I lost my P2V), his P2V started auto-landing right into the pond. Why the hell P2V was auto-landing 200M away from home-point? When he was aware the aircraft was landing, he regained the control immediately at 50M altitude and flew back manually. When he flew back home-point (the real one), the Vision app indicating 200M from the home (fake) position.

I know switching S2 (left switch) multiple times can reset the home-point during P2V in the air. I suspect some sort of RF interference switching S2 at such spot 200M away. Thus P2V believed it's back home, then executed auto-landing.

This is likely a design bug (or feature) of the NAZA flight controller. I strongly urge DJI put a better safeguard of reset home-point in the air.