So this just happened......NFZ Forced Landing

[SoCalDude]

You've mentioned the football stadium a few times.

According to DJI, the Eagles' football stadium (Lincoln Financial Field) is within the 5-mile radius of Philadelphia International Airport, therefore, it doesn't matter if there is a TFR over the stadium (as far as flying without permission).

How close are you to the stadium (and KPHL)?

You still haven't responded to a couple of requests about why you are flying at night and without VLOS? What--exactly--are you up to?

 

[JonEQuest]

My understanding is, stadiums are "special areas" which require permission to fly over.

DJI - Fly Safe: No Fly Zones

And then there's this...

Fly with caution: DJI increasing restrictions on where customers can fly their drones

The last time I flew there it was NOT a NFZ. I just didn't get the footage I wanted because of high wind and lack of daylight. I tried to go back but NOW it is a NFZ. This is also the Superdome so the drone can't "fall" into it like an open stadium. I was also flying yesterday when the facility was empty. I won't try to fly in a NFZ but the fact that DJI GO tries to force landing instead of sending you home is not a cool thing. DJI GO let me warm up, get satellite lock, then take off and start flying for about 2 minutes before saying NFZ and trying to force land me.

 

[JWH]

Could it be some sort of strong radio transmission of some sort messing with it in that area, since it happened at the same spot again? As you said, it should have landed if it were a NFZ issue.

 

[SoCalDude]

DJI GO let me warm up, get satellite lock, then take off and start flying for about 2 minutes before saying NFZ and trying to force land me.

It sounds like your launch point was outside of the NFZ, correct?

 

[bkushner]

There is conflicting information all over. I am not near PHL and the Temp NFZ for the Eagles last Sunday shows one radious on FAA, another on UAV forecast and is gone all together on the DJI site. It is a yellow zone and I entered my information to unlock the zone. The mission takes me along a river to the delaware river and back. I'm not going near the Stadiums and at that point I'm probably 3 or more miles from the Airport and it's not in the RED ZONE. Here's a question no one can answer, why is the nfz still active when the game was last Sunday?

 

[bkushner]

Could it be some sort of strong radio transmission of some sort messing with it in that area, since it happened at the same spot again? As you said, it should have landed if it were a NFZ issue.

I've flown by there 50 times in the past, as I've said there is only ONE thing different and that is I upgraded the Litchi ap which they say couldnt have done it. Also the CLASS B Temp Zones give warning your in them and to fly carefully..haven't see them force you down.

 

[With The Birds]

To get a better feel for what is going on here might I propose that you forget litchi for the purpose of the experiment.... Take off from within VLOS of the area where you know the issue is occurring using the GO app (fly manually) and note what warnings are displayed and AC behaviour. This should give us a good feel of what is happening.

 

[bkushner]

To get a better feel for what is going on here might I propose that you forget litchi for the purpose of the experiment.... Take off from within VLOS of the area where you know the issue is occurring using the GO app (fly manually) and note what warnings are displayed and AC behaviour. This should give us a good feel of what is happening.

That's exactly my plan but it rained today..will try soon..thanks.

 

[Mooks]

@bkushner I'm sorry to hear of your troubles but I have to ask, is what you did legal? I'm in Ireland where we have no privacy issues and 100% freedom with the least amount of surveillance cameras etc in the free world. I'm living in a society that respects the individuals rights to do what they like when they like with no fear of our government or terror issues (we have had our fair share with the political problems in the north of Ireland), once we act within the law.. my concern is that regardless of NFZ or issues with the app or even the drone, what you did would be illegal here and is fodder for the individuals who would love to see our great hobby of RC getting shot down for endangering the public e.g. Sweden's latest ruling. However they're not part of the EU so it doesn't affect us in Europe. But are your actions legal and if not why post it for the worlds media to see as an example of drones endangering life and innocent individuals? Just wondering? Not being antagonistic... happy flying!!


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[bkushner]

@bkushner I'm sorry to hear of your troubles but I have to ask, is what you did legal? I'm in Ireland where we have no privacy issues and 100% freedom with the least amount of surveillance cameras etc in the free world. I'm living in a society that respects the individuals rights to do what they like when they like with no fear of our government or terror issues (we have had our fair share with the political problems in the north of Ireland), once we act within the law.. my concern is that regardless of NFZ or issues with the app or even the drone, what you did would be illegal here and is fodder for the individuals who would love to see our great hobby of RC getting shot down for endangering the public e.g. Sweden's latest ruling. However they're not part of the EU so it doesn't affect us in Europe. But are your actions legal and if not why post it for the worlds media to see as an example of drones endangering life and innocent individuals? Just wondering? Not being antagonistic... happy flying!!


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Illegal in what sense? If I'm not mistaking and maybe I am, flying at night is not recommended but it it illegal? Endangering life? The mission is over marsh and river..

 

[Mark The Droner]

In the US, recreational flyers must adhere to FAR Part 101.

Interestingly, I have yet to see Part 101 on the FAA site. I don't know if they're hiding it or what... but here it is via another government site:

eCFR — Code of Federal Regulations

Scroll down to subpart E.

The first sentence refers to Public Law 112-95 Sec 336 which all hobbyists should be familiar with.

https://www.congress.gov/112/plaws/publ95/PLAW-112publ95.pdf

And it's (c)(2) of this section which is important in this particular case.

 

[Mooks]

Think you missed my point. Did you fly a mission which was not line of sight?...
In Europe there are very strict laws about that and I am curious to know how your aviation authority views autonomous drone flights beyond line of sight. If you can not see your drone even if you flew out to sea you potentially could hit an object or person. If you have had issues as you say where you effectively lost control then you are liable. By EU law all craft greater than 850 grams must be registered to their owner. Legally therefore if you happened to be terribly unlucky one could potentially injure a another party or damage property and legally be culpable. I'm just curious. If you had line of sight at all times then you are only legal if you have control of your craft, here. If you didn't and even in a fly away you are responsible etc. Just asking not being antagonistic as I said. We all must keep our hobbies safe and act responsibly or the privacy laws will ban all drone activities and as always there are naysayers who are only interested in their own agendas to remove drones from the sky as they fear what they do not understand. By example I saw on the news a drone which had a hand gun attached filmed in the USA. It made the news here in Europe and we all are looking at a ban potentially in the future. Flying out of sight is frankly irresponsible in my humble opinion. Just my take on it. The reason drones drop out of the sky in NFZ is the hazard they present in flying back must obviously outweigh the hazard of landing in the eyes of those in power... curious is all. Happy flying...


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[SoCalDude]

...flying at night is not recommended but it it illegal?

@bkushner is correct (WRT night-flying). However, his flying outside of VLOS is illegal in both recreational and commercial operations.

For recreational sUAV pilots, you can fly at night, provided ...

RC night flying requires a lighting system providing the pilot with a clear view of the model’s attitude and orientation at all times. Hand-held illumination systems are inadequate for night flying operations.

--Academy of Model Aeronautics Membership Manual 2016

For commercial sUAV pilots, you can only fly 30 minutes before sunrise and 30 minutes after sunset ...

14 CFR part 107 prohibits operation of a small UAS at night, defined in 14 CFR part 1 as the time between the end of evening civil twilight and the beginning of morning civil twilight, as published in the Federal Air Almanac, and converted to local time.

The Federal Air Almanac provides tables to determine sunrise and sunset at various latitudes. For example:

• In the contiguous United States, evening civil twilight is the period of sunset until 30 minutes after sunset and morning civil twilight is the period of 30 minutes prior to sunrise until sunrise
• In Alaska, the definition of civil twilight differs and is described in the Federal Air Almanac

 

[Tommy Iversen]

Yes I agree as one of the solutions but my suggestion is that it should not take off at all if it senses NFZs on the mission route. Missions are planned on ground so why can't it check it the moment you place a waypoint.


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I live quite close to a airport, and trying to fly from home, Litchi won´t let me execute a mission for that reason. However, that´s only the cause if i start the mission while in air. If i execute before taking off, it will fly the mission without problems. That being said, i only flew a couple of short tests rounds in the beginning, keeping it below 30 meters, as my home is actually within the NFZ. Not by much, but still.

 

[bkushner]

I live quite close to a airport, and trying to fly from home, Litchi won´t let me execute a mission for that reason. However, that´s only the cause if i start the mission while in air. If i execute before taking off, it will fly the mission without problems. That being said, i only flew a couple of short tests rounds in the beginning, keeping it below 30 meters, as my home is actually within the NFZ. Not by much, but still.

There was no NFZ when I took off. Today I went near where the bird was stopping and flew with visual and it worked finr, no problem, no warnings, nothing, executed a mission and it stopped. So as I suspected this started with the Litchi update and seems to me litchi related to what effect I do not know.

 

[bkushner]

@bkushner is correct (WRT night-flying). However, his flying outside of VLOS is illegal in both recreational and commercial operations.

For recreational sUAV pilots, you can fly at night, provided ...

​

For commercial sUAV pilots, you can only fly 30 minutes before sunrise and 30 minutes after sunset ...

​

So here's a question, how are the drone makers allowed to build drones with the ranges they do. Surely no one can see their drone at 2-3 and 4 miles out...If I only flew VLOS I mind as well hang it up...

 

[With The Birds]

There was no NFZ when I took off. Today I went near where the bird was stopping and flew with visual and it worked finr, no problem, no warnings, nothing, executed a mission and it stopped. So as I suspected this started with the Litchi update and seems to me litchi related to what effect I do not know.

As you know, litchi has stated currently there are issues with how NFZ are reported with the current DJI firmware/SDK. It's not too far a stretch of the imagination to appreciate that reporting issues may provide for NFZ behaviour with litchi in circumstances where one does not exist. The exact cause may not be known however you have proven it is happening. You know first hand the effect. As frustrating as it might be it's clear, particularly in your circumstances, LCMC flight (especially in this area) are highly unadvisable.

 

[Mooks]

So here's a question, how are the drone makers allowed to build drones with the ranges they do. Surely no one can see their drone at 2-3 and 4 miles out...If I only flew VLOS I mind as well hang it up...

Well they can legally make it go to the other side of the country if it had satellite communications and enough power, but you take responsibility for your actions as an adult. End of.
The people who make firearms are likewise not responsible for those who choose to infringe on the laws of their country..
Your FAA has deemed it illegal so I suppose it is irrelevant whether you like it or not. If you're not prepared to fly within the law and would otherwise hang your hat then probably better for law abiding enthusiasts if that was the case.



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[With The Birds]

So here's a question, how are the drone makers allowed to build drones with the ranges they do. Surely no one can see their drone at 2-3 and 4 miles out...If I only flew VLOS I mind as well hang it up...

How are car manufacturers allowed to produce vehicles for use on public roads capabable of significantly exceeding the legal speed limits?

It's our responsibility to follow the rules, and to the extent we choose not to be prepared to accept the consequences.

The increased range enjoyed by DJI's control and video downlink systems is a product of the exceptional performance and reliability we experience within VLOS. Similarly a vehicle that can do 120+mph comfortably will be a pleasure to drive at any legal posted speed on the open road.

 

[SoCalDude]

So here's a question, how are the drone makers allowed to build drones with the ranges they do. Surely no one can see their drone at 2-3 and 4 miles out...If I only flew VLOS I mind as well hang it up...

Stop being naive. We're not the only country on this planet. Other countries have more relaxed regulations (or none at all). FYI, DJI sells aircraft in many other countries.