So I got ticketed by Federal Police Officers...(video included)

[Rosey]

Hey Guys,

So it happened...I got ticketed by Federal Police Officers two weeks ago. I was traveling to St. Louis, MO and wanted to get some good fly time in so I went to get some video of the Archway...which apparently is actually considered a National Park.

At the time, it was under construction and I did not even see signs designating it as a National Park. Also, being newer to the drone life (and trying to follow all proper laws and guidelines) I had never read anything about National Parks being No Fly Zones. I have since learned to use apps like AirMap to hopefully avoid any of this in the future.

The FAA does not appear to have a law against flying in National Parks, it seems to be something the National Park enacted themselves from what I have researched. I'm not sure how it seems legit that the FAA "owns the air" but other agencies can override the FAA.

Anyway, below is a video I ended up making. It was supposed to be entirely different but figured I might as well use it as an opportunity to make a video anyway..and possibly help someone not make the same mistake. You can go right to the audio of the police interaction if you click the link down in the description.

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[Kevin O]

I highly recommend the use of Airmap.

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[Rosey]

I highly recommend the use of Airmap.

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Yea...Like I said, I'm using it now. Really wish I would have been using it before this! Still seems like B.S. that the FAA claims ownership of controlling the air though, yet the National Park service can "control the airspace" if they want too.

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[roadwarrior]

Little side note: is "airmap" on iOS? This is what I get when I search for it:

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[sar104]

Little side note: is "airmap" on iOS? This is what I get when I search for it:

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Your app search (above) is set to "iPad Only". AirMap lists as an iPhone app, so you have to change that to "iPhone Only".

 

[Buckshot]

The way I read the policy is "Launching, Landing or operating from lands or waters...". So in theory you could operate from outside park boundaries and fly into as long as you don't land.

www.nps.gov/policy/PolMemos/PM_14-05.htm



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[tcope]

The FAA does not appear to have a law against flying in National Parks, it seems to be something the National Park enacted themselves from what I have researched. I'm not sure how it seems legit that the FAA "owns the air" but other agencies can override the FAA.

What Buckshot mentions is correct. The National Park service got it 100% in that they are not regulating airspace and have no rules on that. They do have the ability to regulate what people do on their property. As such, they don't allow _people_ to operate, launch or land UAVs on their property. This is not regulating airspace, it's regulating what people do on National Parks land.

Whats done is done, you understand at this time. However, this is a well known rule that has been around for years now. Its also been well covered in the media. You were issued a citation, you did everyone the service of letting people know about this in order to help the next person.

Edit: The fine was light. It can easily be in excess of $1000. I'd say 99.99% of the people who have looked at this forum know that there is always going to be a huge question about flying in _any_ park and check the rules. Pretty much everyone knows that National Parks are 100% off limits. As you mention, there were no signs. I get that. If you look it up online you see it listed under a NPS website. As mentioned above, you did not know. You took the time to put together a (very interesting) video on the subject in order to let other people know. Kudos for that.

 

[roadwarrior]

Your app search (above) is set to "iPad Only". AirMap lists as an iPhone app, so you have to change that to "iPhone Only".

Gotcha, thanks.


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[Sagebrush]

Rosey:

Great educational post for our community. (Tough way to get educated that this was a national park and I can understand how it happened. It could have been me...)

How much was the fine?

I've spent a fair amount of time in Yellowstone and I fall in the camp of not wanting drone's buzzing around in the National Parks. At least the wild ones. To be clear, I wouldn't have found your drone obnoxious at the arch.

SB

 

[Neon Euc]

Fair play to the ranger tho. Small fine and didn't confiscate the drone.

Neon Euc

 

[Buckshot]

Certain National Parks/landmarks may also have permanent or temporary flight restrictions as well. I believe the faa sets a TFR around the arch during July 4th activities.


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[Rosey]

The way I read the policy is "Launching, Landing or operating from lands or waters...". So in theory you could operate from outside park boundaries and fly into as long as you don't land.

www.nps.gov/policy/PolMemos/PM_14-05.htm



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Ah, that makes sense. So theoretically I could have launched from right outside, flown over towards the arch and gotten pictures then returned I would have been fine..Funny.

Honestly I probably wouldn't do that though...Seems like you would still just be asking for trouble.

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[Buckshot]

Ah, that makes sense. So theoretically I could have launched from right outside, flown over towards the arch and gotten pictures then returned I would have been fine..Funny.

Honestly I probably wouldn't do that though...Seems like you would still just be asking for trouble.

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I wouldn't try that either. I'm sure they would find something to get you for. Better off staying clear IMO.


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[Rosey]

What Buckshot mentions is correct. The National Park service got it 100% in that they are not regulating airspace and have no rules on that. They do have the ability to regulate what people do on their property. As such, they don't allow _people_ to operate, launch or land UAVs on their property. This is not regulating airspace, it's regulating what people do on National Parks land.

Whats done is done, you understand at this time. However, this is a well known rule that has been around for years now. Its also been well covered in the media. You were issued a citation, you did everyone the service of letting people know about this in order to help the next person.

Edit: The fine was light. It can easily be in excess of $1000. I'd say 99.99% of the people who have looked at this forum know that there is always going to be a huge question about flying in _any_ park and check the rules. Pretty much everyone knows that National Parks are 100% off limits. As you mention, there were no signs. I get that. If you look it up online you see it listed under a NPS website. As mentioned above, you did not know. You took the time to put together a (very interesting) video on the subject in order to let other people know. Kudos for that.

Thanks for the comments. I would agree with you now, that it seems like a rookie mistake. However, with that said I was (OK, still am) a rookie.

Wish I would have known it was a no fly zone at the time, and I can say I am much more informed and double check places I fly now (IE airmap, or even calling the park if needed).

 

[N017RW]

Sit on the street across the national park (not on their property) and then fly into the national park. Your aircraft can be in the airspace, but you can't be sat down operating on their property, or take off/land on the national park property.

Fair to say that's what you'd do?

Advising others to do so and at their peril (and none to you) is irresponsible without knowing the specific facts.

 

[AlecW]

$50 seems fair I suppose. I get banning drones in parts of NPs where you tend to get a lot of people congregating, old faithful in Yellowstone for example and probably the Arch. I really don't know why they had to make it outright, some of the huge parks are so vast you can hike all day and not see more than 20 people.

 

[Monte55]

It seems there is no answer to any of this. Even if you try to do everything correctly. ...some will..and can...pull the YOU WERE PUTTING THE PUBLIC AT RISK card out. How can anyone keep up with this crap? Even if you are right, the cost to fight it will get you.

 

[sar104]

It seems there is no answer to any of this. Even if you try to do everything correctly. ...some will..and can...pull the YOU WERE PUTTING THE PUBLIC AT RISK card out. How can anyone keep up with this crap? Even if you are right, the cost to fight it will get you.

When following the FAA rules and guidelines for whichever class of activity applies, and respecting takeoff/landing/operating restrictions imposed by ground authorities, then are significant problems of that kind actually being encountered by fliers?

 

[Rosey]

Rosey:

Great educational post for our community. (Tough way to get educated that this was a national park and I can understand how it happened. It could have been me...)

How much was the fine?

I've spent a fair amount of time in Yellowstone and I fall in the camp of not wanting drone's buzzing around in the National Parks. At least the wild ones. To be clear, I wouldn't have found your drone obnoxious at the arch.

SB

Thanks Sagebrush. Hopefully it will at least save someone else a negative drone/police interaction in the future. The ticket was only $50, so its not the end of the world. But you know how it is...it's just irritating getting a ticket. Especially when I did not realize I was doing anything wrong. Being that I was not being dangerous or reckless in any way (open field, not flying near any people or structures etc) it seems a warning / little education would have been enough. I would have apologized and stopped immediately with that alone.

 

[Rosey]

Fair play to the ranger tho. Small fine and didn't confiscate the drone.

Neon Euc

I don't disagree, but like I just mentioned, simply educating me would have sufficed. I believe it was clear I truly did not realize it was A) a National Park and B) Illegal to fly there. Especially since the area was under construction so a lot of it was fenced off / (i'm guessing) missing signs stating its a National Park etc.

I do agree though, while I very much believe I could have fought the reason to take my drone...it would have been an insanely large among of work considering I am not even from the area. So for that I am very grateful. Also, like I said in the video the two Officers I dealt with were nice and profession, so I don't want it to come across as though I am bashing the police or these Officers in anyway. It was clear they were just trying to follow orders from higher up.