Preventing & Recovering a Phantom from a fly away

[BenDronePilot]

Re: Preventing & Recovering a lost Phantom from a fly away

Doing a compas config sets the declination so the compas knows where is at for true and magnetic north, you only need to set it up if you move a hundred or so miles away

I suppose you mean calibration by "config" ?

Maybe true if the Naza has a database with inclinations from all over the world, but then a gps location would be enough.

I don't think the Naza cares about the true north. I think it will always use the magnetic north to navigate. (Therefore always navigates in "circles" in places with a high inclination)

I saw a guy on internet setting the compass of a naza (not mounted on Phantom, on other copter, hex if i remember well, with the naza gps/compass on top) in alignment with the true north, therefore eliminating the inclination.

Afaik the Wookong of DJI has a function where it notices navigation errors related to inclination, and adjusts the north reference accordingly, automatically. Don't think Phantoms have this.

True fly aways are Naza software crashes imho. A series of unexpected values (or some hardware fault) and kaboom. And without a brain, the Phantom just takes off, maybe just stuck in the last command it recieved. Probably the naza reboots after the crash, but does not find itself in a usual boot up situation, motors off, with little movement, and may crash again.

Any sudden unexpected changes in input could be detected imho. If its a "strange" gps signal, large change in air pressure, magnetic field, radio interference or whatever.

For instance, if the compass suddenly changes 45 degrees in direction without a good "navigation reason" it should be considered suspect. Its of outside origin.





Sent from my SM-T311 using Tapatalk

Many people on these threads are under the impression DJI has been "silent" on fly away issue. Well that's not entirely true as here's a video featuring DJI CIO Colin Guinn specifically addressing fly away issues, causes and steps they've taken to help prevent and stop them as they occur.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2bxjL7wFyb8

So to sum it up many fly aways are not "crashes" as you put it but communication errors, interference related problems or combination of factors. During said fly aways dropping the flight mode to Atti and if that's not sufficient then Manual mode reduces cross talk between interfering components such as GPS, Compas, IMU, PMU, as it begins reducing flight control down to the lowest common denominator. For myself I only have GPS and Atti mode available and not Manual. I'd hate to accidentally switch to manual or a friend flying and switching to manual and crash my $1,200 Phantom.

 

[BenDronePilot]

Re: Preventing & Recovering a lost Phantom from a fly away

I've setup my S1 for GPS / ATTI / MANUAL.
The plan for going home it to turn off my transmitter (never tested it)

So.. If it's true that a fly away is caused by GPS loss, than flying in GPS mode from outside into a building (garage/hangar) should trigger a fly away.

Anyone here willing to try / test this?

One more thing.
I always wait for the all green, and a home point lock before takeoff. Now what happens when flying in ATTI or MANUAL and the TX signal is lost? Does it go into "home mode" and fly back to the recorded "home point"?

No the "fly away" phenomenon is not do to GPS loss, per say although if you are flying in Atti mode you don't have GPS lock so you can "fly away" if a brisk breeze hits you and you don't compensate for the push. Read the post I just made above this one and watch the video link with DJI CIO Collin Guinn.

 

[Noël]

Re: Preventing & Recovering a lost Phantom from a fly away

I've seen that video before, and that's one of the reasons I've enabled manual mode too.
The other reason being is that I want to be able to control the unit and not a GPS and or compass.
Do not get me wrong. For keeping the Vision in one place it's great to be able to put it in GPS mode!

I've been flying RC helicopters and plains (nitro/electric) so I feel comfortable with the remote in manual mode and any position of the Vision.

 

[BenDronePilot]

Re: Preventing & Recovering a lost Phantom from a fly away

I've seen that video before, and that's one of the reasons I've enabled manual mode too.
The other reason being is that I want to be able to control the unit and not a GPS and or compass.
Do not get me wrong. For keeping the Vision in one place it's great to be able to put it in GPS mode!

I've been flying RC helicopters and plains (nitro/electric) so I feel comfortable with the remote in manual mode and any position of the Vision.

Yeah it's nice to have options. That's why I enabled Atti mode. It also can make for smoother video capturing as well. Though a couple of companys are making available a 2 axis gimbal for the vision which will help for those wanting super stable and level video recording. Although there is kind of something cool about having the tilt in the video as you fly. It depends what you're looking for. Pardon me for going bit off topic for a moment

 

[Pull_Up]

Re: Preventing & Recovering a lost Phantom from a fly away

Just remember that whilst Colin Guinn might be CEO of DJI North America (although his LinkedIn profile says he's actually the Chief Innovation Officer - that's a new job title to add to the lexicon!) his role is to market DJI and its products - the person I REALLY want to see making a video is the real CEO of DJI, Wang Tao, who started the company and was the technical brains behind its initial developments. No offense to Colin, he makes a good "front of house" person for the company, and the videos he produces are generally excellent (unsurprising given his marketing background) but he is, in essence, a spokesperson.

It would be nice to hear from someone very senior in DJI on the technical side giving a response to the various reports that have come from V1 Phantom, and now some in the V2. You know, someone whose reputation might be on the line and so is unlikely just to give a whitewash answer.

Don't think it's going to happen, though...

 

[iDrone]

Re: Preventing & Recovering a lost Phantom from a fly away

Many people on these threads are under the impression DJI has been "silent" on fly away issue. Well that's not entirely true as here's a video featuring DJI CIO Collin Guinn specifically addressing fly away issues, causes and steps they've taken to help prevent and stop them as they occur.

The video has been posted several times and you'd have to live under a rock on this forum to miss it. Unfortunately Collin only "suggests" possible causes, and DJI certainly hasn't taken steps to stop or prevent them from occurring (to date) thru hardware or firmware. Hopefully when they release Groundstation for PV (by Christmas? New Year's?) they'll have done something. Which takes us back to the "silent" elephant in the room, DJI has yet to reassure PV customers they're doing anything about it. It's really as simple as saying, "We're investigating user reports of fly-away's to determine if a possible firmware enhancement may help prevent them."

Do I hear an "Amen!" from our fellow fliers?

iDrone

 

[ChesterT]

Re: Preventing & Recovering a lost Phantom from a fly away

Thanks BDP...I appreciate your response and it made me go back and read the manual again! I was incorrectly under the impression that compass calibration was 'required' every time I started the P2V but for sure the manual DOES NOT state that! I will have to see today if I go back to my normal take off/landing spot, if the slow blinking LED's will start.
I may just be too cautious, but each time I initially take the P2V off, I raise it to about 10 feet and let go of the RC controls. If it hovers shabbily, I then start flying. Only once so far has the initial hover become erratic, in which I landed the P2V and recalibrated the compass and then had a stable hover. I am a 'novice' pilot and only have about 30 flights with my P2V, so I'm very much still in the learning stages.

Thanks again BDP!

ChesterT

 

[Pull_Up]

Re: Preventing & Recovering a lost Phantom from a fly away

I think to start every flight with a head-height hover and then do a quick controls check is a very good idea, and something I've done from day 1.

Opinions vary but I'm of the "don't calibrate every flight" school of thought - unless something has changed in your geography, or you've opened the Vision up to tinker with it. If you are certain that the place you're calibrating in is free from ferro-magnetic sources then go for it, otherwise I don't want to risk introducing any issues that weren't there before by recalibrating if I'm at all unsure of the flight area (especially regarding what's under the ground). If I run my hover test and all is well then I go for it.

 

[BenDronePilot]

Re: Preventing & Recovering a lost Phantom from a fly away

I think to start every flight with a head-height hover and then do a quick controls check is a very good idea, and something I've done from day 1.

Opinions vary but I'm of the "don't calibrate every flight" school of thought - unless something has changed in your geography, or you've opened the Vision up to tinker with it. If you are certain that the place you're calibrating in is free from ferro-magnetic sources then go for it, otherwise I don't want to risk introducing any issues that weren't there before by recalibrating if I'm at all unsure of the flight area (especially regarding what's under the ground). If I run my hover test and all is well then I go for it.

That's pretty much what I do. I first wait for the GPS green flashing lights to confirm home lock, and will then check the DJI App another 30 seconds to a minute to make sure that wasn't just a temporary lock. Once everything is green for a minute or so I take off, hover for a moment and look around to make sure everything is okay, then like you I "go for it". Now that I have 3 batteries I can "go for it" that much more

 

[BenDronePilot]

Re: Preventing & Recovering a lost Phantom from a fly away

Thanks BDP...I appreciate your response and it made me go back and read the manual again! I was incorrectly under the impression that compass calibration was 'required' every time I started the P2V but for sure the manual DOES NOT state that! I will have to see today if I go back to my normal take off/landing spot, if the slow blinking LED's will start.
I may just be too cautious, but each time I initially take the P2V off, I raise it to about 10 feet and let go of the RC controls. If it hovers shabbily, I then start flying. Only once so far has the initial hover become erratic, in which I landed the P2V and recalibrated the compass and then had a stable hover. I am a 'novice' pilot and only have about 30 flights with my P2V, so I'm very much still in the learning stages.

Thanks again BDP!

ChesterT

You're welcome, Chester. And another quick FYI, Compass calibration has nothing to do with you getting or not getting the flashing green lights showing you have GPS lock. Just depending on where you fly and surrounding conditions (temp, cloud cover, other radio interference, power conduits, etc) it can sometimes take a few minutes to get a solid GPS hold. Flying from the park I've been going to I get GPS lock pretty quickly. Taking off from my yard routinely takes no less than 2 minutes to get a sold GPS lock and sometimes longer.

 

[Ton4]

Re: Preventing & Recovering a lost Phantom from a fly away

I think to start every flight with a head-height hover and then do a quick controls check is a very good idea, and something I've done from day 1.

That's pretty much what I do. I first wait for the GPS green flashing lights to confirm home lock

I wait for 2 series of green flashes because I have IOC enabled. The first serie is a signal that heading is recorded, the second serie, usually after acquiring 6 satellites or more is home location set. Sometimes they follow very shortly after eachother.



Sent from my SM-T311 using Tapatalk

 

[BenDronePilot]

Re: Preventing & Recovering a lost Phantom from a fly away

I think to start every flight with a head-height hover and then do a quick controls check is a very good idea, and something I've done from day 1.

That's pretty much what I do. I first wait for the GPS green flashing lights to confirm home lock

I wait for 2 series of green flashes because I have IOC enabled. The first serie is a signal that heading is recorded, the second serie, usually after acquiring 6 satellites or more is home location set. Sometimes they follow very shortly after eachother.



Sent from my SM-T311 using Tapatalk

Fly on the green and not in between in this case the slow flash green tail lights.

 

[BenDronePilot]

Re: Preventing & Recovering a lost Phantom from a fly away

Since a lot people new to the Phantom are basically posting the same questions recently. Especially regarding firmware and compass calibrations. I thought it important this thread jump back on top again so it may be read by them. There are also some others that should also jump back top. This forum really could use a "sticky" option to keep important threads easily accessible for new people to see. Good luck with your Phantoms! Keep them up to date with the latest firmware! And do not calibrate your compass before every single flight. Only once before your first flight in a clear grassy field free of any interference. Happy Holidays and New Years

 

[HVMSTORMER]

Re: Preventing & Recovering a lost Phantom from a fly away

bendronepilot, I agree, respect and totally understand your logic however I am going to stick with the manuals info on "when" to calibrate the compass:

" Regular calibration of the compass enables the compass to perform at its optimal level." P30

"10.3 When Recalibration is Required" P30.
(1) When Compass Data is abnormal, the LED flight indicator will blink alternating between red and yellow.
(2) Last compass calibration was performed at a completely different flying field/location.
(3) The mechanical structure of the aircraft has changed, i.e. changed mounting position of the compass.
(4) Evident drifting occurs in flight, i.e. the aircraft doesn’t fly in straight lines.

All the above points are important but the common sense one for me is that if I fly from a new locationI I will calibrate the compass, if I go back their daily I won't bother with calibration. After every launch I let the PV2 settle for 30 Secs in hover, any anomalies, I land and work out why.

Hope this is of some use to others too.

 

[BenDronePilot]

Re: Preventing & Recovering a lost Phantom from a fly away

...

 

[BenDronePilot]

Re: Preventing & Recovering a lost Phantom from a fly away

bendronepilot, I agree, respect and totally understand your logic however I am going to stick with the manuals info on "when" to calibrate the compass:

" Regular calibration of the compass enables the compass to perform at its optimal level." P30

"10.3 When Recalibration is Required" P30.
(1) When Compass Data is abnormal, the LED flight indicator will blink alternating between red and yellow.
(2) Last compass calibration was performed at a completely different flying field/location.
(3) The mechanical structure of the aircraft has changed, i.e. changed mounting position of the compass.
(4) Evident drifting occurs in flight, i.e. the aircraft doesn’t fly in straight lines.

All the above points are important but the common sense one for me is that if I fly from a new locationI I will calibrate the compass, if I go back their daily I won't bother with calibration. After every launch I let the PV2 settle for 30 Secs in hover, any anomalies, I land and work out why.

Hope this is of some use to others too.

Actually the only time the manual tells you to calibrate the compass is BEFORE your first flight. And also suggests "frequently" calibrating the compass though it never recommends or states to calibrate it "every" time you fly. And if you watch the video link I have in my post. DJI's representative and CIO himself, Colin Quinn says it only needs to be done before your initial flight so the Phantom knows where in the world you are and the appropriate declination. He never states that it needs to be done if you should decide to fly at a different location a few miles away.

Also in my personal experience with all of the flights I'm racking up, as well as others is doing the one time Calibration is fine and preferred. People in these forums that have been calibrating their compass before every flight have been the main people having problems versus those of us who have only calibrated the one time before our initial flight in a the appropriate manner recommend by DJI and Colin Guinn CIO.

Bottom line is it's your bird and you can fly it as you like, take our advise or not take it. Either way, good luck and happy flying.

 

[Richhealth]

Re: Preventing & Recovering a lost Phantom from a fly away

bendronepilot, I agree, respect and totally understand your logic however I am going to stick with the manuals info on "when" to calibrate the compass:

" Regular calibration of the compass enables the compass to perform at its optimal level." P30

"10.3 When Recalibration is Required" P30.
(1) When Compass Data is abnormal, the LED flight indicator will blink alternating between red and yellow.
(2) Last compass calibration was performed at a completely different flying field/location.
(3) The mechanical structure of the aircraft has changed, i.e. changed mounting position of the compass.
(4) Evident drifting occurs in flight, i.e. the aircraft doesn’t fly in straight lines.

All the above points are important but the common sense one for me is that if I fly from a new locationI I will calibrate the compass, if I go back their daily I won't bother with calibration. After every launch I let the PV2 settle for 30 Secs in hover, any anomalies, I land and work out why.

Hope this is of some use to others too.

Actually the only time the manual tells you to calibrate the compass is BEFORE your first flight.


Hello and happy New Year everyone. I'd start this reply with a thank you to BDP for taking the time and effort to help new pilots.

I have to take issue with the recommendations regarding compass calibration however. HVMstormers direct quote form the DJI Phantom 2 manual isn't really something we can argue with, especially while citing recommendations from DJI and their videos. Number 2 in the quote above is pretty plain and simple, unless I am somehow missing something?

Id also point out that for all of the concern about how sensitive the compass is, we cant forget that having a phantom bumping around in the car, back pack, garage, or landing hard, or whatever you might not expect, a compass calibration is your fastest insurance policy for knowing that its set up and will fly properly since the last time you launched it. If we are going to trust the app to tell us when a calibration is needed, then we can trust it when it tells us that our calibration didn't take, or wasn't done properly. If that statement is true, the other issue is, when does DJI suggest a calibration, and # 2 clearly answers that.

I'd normally ignore post like this when I see disagreements, but The compass thing is pretty important to the safe operation of the Phantom so I had to chime in. If there is something in the manual that contradicts "regular calibration" then I'll gladly stand corrected. I cant read #2 any other way, and I'm not sure who would or why?


Rich

 

[gunslinger]

Re: Preventing & Recovering a lost Phantom from a fly away

bendronepilot, I agree, respect and totally understand your logic however I am going to stick with the manuals info on "when" to calibrate the compass:

" Regular calibration of the compass enables the compass to perform at its optimal level." P30

"10.3 When Recalibration is Required" P30.
(1) When Compass Data is abnormal, the LED flight indicator will blink alternating between red and yellow.
(2) Last compass calibration was performed at a completely different flying field/location.
(3) The mechanical structure of the aircraft has changed, i.e. changed mounting position of the compass.
(4) Evident drifting occurs in flight, i.e. the aircraft doesn’t fly in straight lines.

All the above points are important but the common sense one for me is that if I fly from a new locationI I will calibrate the compass, if I go back their daily I won't bother with calibration. After every launch I let the PV2 settle for 30 Secs in hover, any anomalies, I land and work out why.

Hope this is of some use to others too.

Actually the only time the manual tells you to calibrate the compass is BEFORE your first flight.


Hello and happy New Year everyone. I'd start this reply with a thank you to BDP for taking the time and effort to help new pilots.

I have to take issue with the recommendations regarding compass calibration however. HVMstormers direct quote form the DJI Phantom 2 manual isn't really something we can argue with, especially while citing recommendations from DJI and their videos. Number 2 in the quote above is pretty plain and simple, unless I am somehow missing something?

Id also point out that for all of the concern about how sensitive the compass is, we cant forget that having a phantom bumping around in the car, back pack, garage, or landing hard, or whatever you might not expect, a compass calibration is your fastest insurance policy for knowing that its set up and will fly properly since the last time you launched it. If we are going to trust the app to tell us when a calibration is needed, then we can trust it when it tells us that our calibration didn't take, or wasn't done properly. If that statement is true, the other issue is, when does DJI suggest a calibration, and # 2 clearly answers that.

I'd normally ignore post like this when I see disagreements, but The compass thing is pretty important to the safe operation of the Phantom so I had to chime in. If there is something in the manual that contradicts "regular calibration" then I'll gladly stand corrected. I cant read #2 any other way, and I'm not sure who would or why?


Rich

Rich... I can thoroughly understand both camps. The very first time I had a problem of any kind was promptly after my first successful compass calibration.

On the other hand... Whenever I set up for a flight and the Phantom isn't hovering as expected under any particular weather conditions, I'll do the compass dance. Most times this sorts out the irregularities.

So... you have the "Don't fix it if it ain't broke" camp... And the "let's re-calibrate just to be safe" camp.

I suspect that their both right depending on circumstance...

 

[Richhealth]

Re: Preventing & Recovering a lost Phantom from a fly away

Rich[/quote]

Rich... I can thoroughly understand both camps. The very first time I had a problem of any kind was promptly after my first successful compass calibration.

On the other hand... Whenever I set up for a flight and the Phantom isn't hovering as expected under any particular weather conditions, I'll do the compass dance. Most times this sorts out the irregularities.

So... you have the "Don't fix it if it ain't broke" camp... And the "let's re-calibrate just to be safe" camp.

I suspect that their both right depending on circumstance...[/quote]


I sort of heard that before Slinger, and I tend to fall into the don't fix what aint broke camp usually, but suggestion # 2 of the manual is still a pretty clear point. The poster I was responding to gave the impression that point # 2 wasn't made by DJI, so I wanted to reiterate the quotes previously made, plus stress the concern or at least raise the question that things can happen to the compass in transit or doing landing of your last flight, especially if new to this.

What confuses me the most about these two camps is; If we are so worried about getting it (calibration)wrong due to unsuspected interference, then it seems to me that that fear should carry over to transit and storage since last flown. Or is conventional wisdom that the compass is only vulnerable when powered on? That's the only way I can see the other camps concern working for me. having said that, it's often suggested to re-calibrate after moving the compass (form one leg to the other, seemingly while powered off) or making internal adjustments to the phantom!

Either way, I'll stick with the suggestions in the manual, and I suspect BDP wants to do the same, but was somehow skipping suggestion # 2, and or alleging that it didn't exist.

The other point of confusion for me is, which trust is stronger? The trust that it will tell us when a calibration is needed, or the trust that it will tell us when our calibration was done properly?

Who knows? Certainly not me. But perhaps non of us do, since the bird just came out in November, we are all technically new to the P2V. That's really the main reason why I have to go with the manual on this one.

Happy New Year Slinger, appreciate your regular contributions to this forum on more occasions than not, and this one is no different.

Rich

 

[HVMSTORMER]

Re: Preventing & Recovering a lost Phantom from a fly away

bendronepilot, I agree, respect and totally understand your logic however I am going to stick with the manuals info on "when" to calibrate the compass:

" Regular calibration of the compass enables the compass to perform at its optimal level." P30

"10.3 When Recalibration is Required" P30.
(1) When Compass Data is abnormal, the LED flight indicator will blink alternating between red and yellow.
(2) Last compass calibration was performed at a completely different flying field/location.
(3) The mechanical structure of the aircraft has changed, i.e. changed mounting position of the compass.
(4) Evident drifting occurs in flight, i.e. the aircraft doesn’t fly in straight lines.

All the above points are important but the common sense one for me is that if I fly from a new locationI I will calibrate the compass, if I go back their daily I won't bother with calibration. After every launch I let the PV2 settle for 30 Secs in hover, any anomalies, I land and work out why.

Hope this is of some use to others too.

Actually the only time the manual tells you to calibrate the compass is BEFORE your first flight. And also suggests "frequently" calibrating the compass though it never recommends or states to calibrate it "every" time you fly. And if you watch the video link I have in my post. DJI's representative and CIO himself, Colin Quinn says it only needs to be done before your initial flight so the Phantom knows where in the world you are and the appropriate declination. He never states that it needs to be done if you should decide to fly at a different location a few miles away.

Also in my personal experience with all of the flights I'm racking up, as well as others is doing the one time Calibration is fine and preferred. People in these forums that have been calibrating their compass before every flight have been the main people having problems versus those of us who have only calibrated the one time before our initial flight in a the appropriate manner recommend by DJI and Colin Guinn CIO.

Bottom line is it's your bird and you can fly it as you like, take our advise or not take it. Either way, good luck and happy flying.

Hi all and a Happy New Year to one and all.

Don't quite understand why bendronepilot states that the manual only states to calibrate before your first flight as I have provided the reference to where it states different.

Each to their own and live and let live, I was just pointing out what the manual states about calibration.

From a personal perspective though, if I was flying from a new field / area, didn't conduct a calibration and then had a fly away I don't think I would have much of a case with DJI as I would not have followed their manual?

Happy New Year to one and all and safe flying.