Phantom 1.1.1 with P2V props - Gain adjustment?

[havasuphoto]

The Naza-M controller is just a "container". We don't know the exact values that DJI put in there for the PV2. Even though the gain values may be the same...we don't know the "base" value-on either aircraft.
So, they could have started at what would be 200%, on a P1/2, but in the gain values, it shows at 125%.

Hmm, well I see why the unknown 'base' values would cause issues with exact comparison and computation between the P1 and P2V, but I don't see why that prevents us from all ending up with the same user-set gains, as shown in the assistant software. There will be some variance, but there should be a set of user settings that 'just work' with these props.

It all depends on the weight and center of gravity of your aircraft. That's why most just recommend you use the tilt switch re-mapped to change the gain values in flight to find what works for you.

I know for a fact that anything below 175% on Basic P/R will induce a bad wobble...this grows worse as you go lower in value. But, that's on my aircraft, which is a P1.0 with a Zen, GCU, iOSD, PMU2, Video TX with clover leaf antenna, dual wire futaba TX, big battery door, and a big battery.

 

[EMCSQUAR]

The Naza-M controller is just a "container". We don't know the exact values that DJI put in there for the PV2. Even though the gain values may be the same...we don't know the "base" value-on either aircraft.
So, they could have started at what would be 200%, on a P1/2, but in the gain values, it shows at 125%.

That's why most just recommend you use the tilt switch re-mapped to change the gain values in flight to find what works for you.

I know for a fact that anything below 175% on Basic P/R will induce a bad wobble...this grows worse as you go lower in value. But, that's on my aircraft, which is a P1.0 with a Zen, GCU, iOSD, PMU2, Video TX with clover leaf antenna, dual wire futaba TX, big battery door, and a big battery.

Havs correct, it seems no two are alike and it's a more "trial & error" until you find settings comfortable.

Now I, like Havs above have a very heavy P1 (loaded with almost the exact setup) but I'm running all that in a P2 shell with P2V props and battery. My weighs in (w/battery) at 1520 gs but my settings are 140-140-160-140 atti 100/100 and I have zero issues w/wobble. Alot has to do with balance. So experiment w/settings - keep in mind top settings are craft reaction to wind etc, atti settings are craft reactions to stick input.

 

[mediaguru]

keep in mind top settings are craft reaction to wind etc, atti settings are craft reactions to stick input.

VERY good to know.

 

[havasuphoto]

Yea, in light of his settings and the fact that his aircraft is heavier, I need to re-evaluate my settings. Luckily it's simple to map the gains to my VR knob and twist to my hearts delight

 

[ElGuano]

keep in mind top settings are craft reaction to wind etc, atti settings are craft reactions to stick input.

Which is why I think "attitude gain" is such a misnomer for these settings! Whenever you adjust your basic pitch/roll gains, make sure your final test is always a moderately fast (but not bottomed throttle) descent from altitude (over soft ground)--a smoothly hovering Phantom is rarely worth introducing potential-flip on descent.

 

[joeflyer]

Does anyone know the default gain settings for the Vision? It seems that would be a good place to start when using Vision props on a P 1.1.1.

 

[havasuphoto]

keep in mind top settings are craft reaction to wind etc, atti settings are craft reactions to stick input.

Which is why I think "attitude gain" is such a misnomer for these settings! Whenever you adjust your basic pitch/roll gains, make sure your final test is always a moderately fast (but not bottomed throttle) descent from altitude (over soft ground)--a smoothly hovering Phantom is rarely worth introducing potential-flip on descent.

I'm going to re-test the Basic P/R, this time with the e-bay Vision props that are balanced. Just want to dial them in a little "softer" if I can.

As for the gains someone requested from the Vision-please read the previous posts. Naza-M is just a container. We don't know the base values they started off with, to end up with their gain values. So, gain values from 1 aircraft do not translate onto another aircraft.

 

[havasuphoto]

Just got back from what I think, was the best flight of the Phantom-ever!!!

We had no wind....almost like a vacuum it was so calm. Temps nearing 65 degree's and bright sunlight-I was sure something would go wrong.

I set my Basic P/R to my VR knob, and had it all the way to max, to start(220%), so I only turned it down. I would lower the gain-and watch....repeat, several times. Then I would go fly around a bit, get up to 100 feet and come back down, and stop-to see how well the aircraft responded. And, I nailed it(for me), at 200%!! Zero wobbles!!!

I also went in and adjusted the yaw down from 175% to 150%, as I noticed that when the aircraft corrected in the yaw axis, I thought it was a bit too abrupt. Went out and tested both-flew to speeds of up to 15m/sec(no wind), and the aircraft handled beautifully.

Keep in mind that I replaced the DJI Vision props , w/nuts, to the E-bay Vision props and black and silver nuts. Those props are balanced perfectly.
I don't know if that is what made the difference though. The last 2 times before, when I went out testing, there was some wind.

The only thing I might change(and I'm looking for input on this), is to increase the sensitivity of the flight controls(Pitch and Roll). It seems to take more stick, to move the aircraft around. Now that may be due to the fact that my aircraft is a pig...dunno.
However-as of now, I'm tempted to just leave everything the way it is....those props/nuts aren't coming off the aircraft unless I damage them. And, I only tightened them about a 1/4 turn past snug-and re-checked them, and they're tight. Not going to touch those nuts with a wrench again-ever!!!

I only flew 3 flights. Just had a feeling that everything was going so well-that I didn't want to do something stupid to screw up the day
Got 9+ minutes out of the MD 2700Mah batteries!!!


OH...after seeing the video, and flying Today-I see no reason whatsoever, to go back to the 8" props.......

 

[ElGuano]

Great news. One thing to consider is that "perfectly tuned" no-wind gains may not behave as well as a "rougher" setting in adverse conditions. If you typically fly in windier settings, keep an eye on the corrections. It's similar to tuning a car for track versus road performance. But it sounds like you have a good baseline now.

 

[havasuphoto]

Great news. One thing to consider is that "perfectly tuned" no-wind gains may not behave as well as a "rougher" setting in adverse conditions. If you typically fly in windier settings, keep an eye on the corrections. It's similar to tuning a car for track versus road performance. But it sounds like you have a good baseline now.

Yea-I planned on re-testing if/when we have some wind that I would be comfortable flying in-and just watching to see how the aircraft reacts.
But-as of now, it's as good as it gets, for me.

 

[joeflyer]

[/quote]
As for the gains someone requested from the Vision-please read the previous posts. Naza-M is just a container. We don't know the base values they started off with, to end up with their gain values. So, gain values from 1 aircraft do not translate onto another aircraft.[/quote]

I have read the previous posts and can't find the Vision default values. If you know them please post them.

What do you mean "Naza-M is just a container"?

Seems to me that just about everyone who has posted in this thread is trying to apply gains from one aircraft to another. I've played with gains a little and don't see any noticeable effect. Perhaps I need to make more drastic changes.

Assuming that DJI did some testing I still think that the Vision default gains might be a good place to start. Compared to my 1.1.1 it has the same motors and same props, although it may be a little heavier.

If someone knows the Vision default values please post them.

Thanks.

 

[ElGuano]

Seems to me that just about everyone who has posted in this thread is trying to apply gains from one aircraft to another. I've played with gains a little and don't see any noticeable effect. Perhaps I need to make more drastic changes.

Assuming that DJI did some testing I still think that the Vision default gains might be a good place to start. Compared to my 1.1.1 it has the same motors and same props, although it may be a little heavier.

If someone knows the Vision default values please post them.

Thanks.

You aren't seeing much difference because the Phantom is a small, well-balanced quad with a low center of gravity. Gains have a more pronounced effect on bigger multis, where larger changes are needed to impact balance and their effects are more visible.

A typical loaded Phantom won't oscillate dangerously within a wide range of gains. Many people can change props and motors without needing to mess with their gains at all, but they've gotten a bit of a mystical reputation as both a panacea for all balance ills, and a critical setting that must be set perfectly anytime something changes. In reality, most people on this board are tinkerers and we're compelled to fine tune even if there's no real need. If your Phantom is behaving well, and you've played with the gains and can't see a difference, there's no real need to go hunting for P2V or any other stock gains, there's no guarantee they'll be any better or different. However, I know this isn't going to be an acceptable answer for you, so good luck finding the P2V gains (I'd share them but I don't have a P2V, you may want to ask in the P2V section?).

 

[joeflyer]

In reality, most people on this board are tinkerers and we're compelled to fine tune even if there's no real need.

Thanks for the response. I think you hit the nail on the head.

 

[Finncelt]

Hi!

flew my bird (v 1.1.1) today using 9" CF Vision-like props (Chinese knock-offs), which I balanced myself. Previous stock gains saw her flying pretty well but with some drift and the odd weird wobble. Then, as today, I flew with nothing at all on the craft. Rather than taking the laptop with me, I chanced these settings referred to way back in this thread:
Pitch
Basic 190
Attitutude 70
Roll
Basic 190
Attitude 70
Yaw
150
Vertical
150

Conditions were calm with only a very light puff of wind occasionally. Result? Flew solidly and steadily in Atti, with the odd jiggle in GPS mode, which is normal I guess. The yaw was interesting as when making a turn the turns were quite wide and not as sharp as with the stock settings with 8" props on. I could make sharp turns but then I really had to push the sticks. Seems quite a nice setup though for wide panning shots or for making slow smooth turns around a landmark like a castle or lighthouse.
It will be interesting to see how she handles when I add the camera and gimbal. Baby steps, baby steps....

 

[willybgh]

Hi!

flew my bird (v 1.1.1) today using 9" CF Vision-like props (Chinese knock-offs), which I balanced myself. Previous stock gains saw her flying pretty well but with some drift and the odd weird wobble. Then, as today, I flew with nothing at all on the craft. Rather than taking the laptop with me, I chanced these settings referred to way back in this thread:
Pitch
Basic 190
Attitutude 70
Roll
Basic 190
Attitude 70
Yaw
150
Vertical
150

Conditions were calm with only a very light puff of wind occasionally. Result? Flew solidly and steadily in Atti, with the odd jiggle in GPS mode, which is normal I guess. The yaw was interesting as when making a turn the turns were quite wide and not as sharp as with the stock settings with 8" props on. I could make sharp turns but then I really had to push the sticks. Seems quite a nice setup though for wide panning shots or for making slow smooth turns around a landmark like a castle or lighthouse.
It will be interesting to see how she handles when I add the camera and gimbal. Baby steps, baby steps....

Currious as to how the phantom reacted once you put on the camera and gimbal if you had one.

I have purchased 9" cf props and wondering what would be a good start for settings.

What for example would be the setting to adjust for a better lift off as it seems sluggish with the gopro on it.

Thanks...

Willybgh

 

[antpoli]

hi folks,
I'm a bit lost in all the discussions but I'd like to share my experiences for phantom FC40
(-) with P2V propellers and original gains, the bird is quite stable but drift a bit when hvering in GPS mode
(-) with P2V propellers and F450 gain settings, bird is much more stable and battery lasts longer in GPS... but in ATTI it drifts a lot
I've not yet tested other gain settings due to wind in the week-end.

BUT I've read you are able to change the gain during flight using X1.... I have original dji TX and RX (5.4MHz for FC40), how can I set the switches to implement such beautifull option?

thanks

 

[havasuphoto]

hi folks,
I'm a bit lost in all the discussions but I'd like to share my experiences for phantom FC40
(-) with P2V propellers and original gains, the bird is quite stable but drift a bit when hvering in GPS mode
(-) with P2V propellers and F450 gain settings, bird is much more stable and battery lasts longer in GPS... but in ATTI it drifts a lot
I've not yet tested other gain settings due to wind in the week-end.

BUT I've read you are able to change the gain during flight using X1.... I have original dji TX and RX (5.4MHz for FC40), how can I set the switches to implement such beautifull option?

thanks

In Naza-M, you have to use your Gimbal tilt lever-if you don't have one installed, you can't change the gain values in flight.
Those of use that dialed in our gain values-did so in flight, by changing the drop down menu, in Naza, under Gains, from INH, to X1. You have to make sure your tilt lever is in the center, before making that change-then hit enter.
Now move the tilt lever, and see if the pitch/roll values change-assuming you clicked the drop down box for both Basic Pitch and Roll(you'll want to do those together).
That way-you can sit there hovering, and adjust the gains, and see the changes. Fly around a bit, and see if you like them.
Otherwise, you will just have to make changes 10%? at a time, in Naza, and go out and fly-take your laptop with you.
As for what the gain value numbers are, on an F450....I have no idea what those numbers are; can you share them?

 

[antpoli]

....
(-) with P2V propellers and F450 gain settings, bird is much more stable and battery lasts longer in GPS... but in ATTI it drifts a lot
....

...
As for what the gain value numbers are, on an F450....I have no idea what those numbers are; can you share them?

actually those are the reccomended settings in NAZA-M guide for the DJI F450 quad:
BASIC GAIN
pitch: 150
roll: 150
yaw: 100
vertical: 105

ATTITUDE GAIN
pitch: 150
roll: 150

 

[havasuphoto]

Those should work fine with the vision props on a phantom. Like I said-most will adjust theirs with the tilt/X1 lever.

 

[dbcch]

Those should work fine with the vision props on a phantom. Like I said-most will adjust theirs with the tilt/X1 lever.

It's a shame DJI didn't ship all controllers with a tilt level pre-installed.

Thanks for the info on the gains!

You're certainly right that it comes down to the particular craft's weight, center of gravity, and pilot preferences. Most importantly, it seems a proper understanding of how the gains affect flight characteristics is required, else it's just a guessing game.