Phantom 1.1.1 with P2V props - Gain adjustment?

[antpoli]

Hi all,
actually yeasterday I made few tests but there was really a lot of wind.
Best results in terms of stability and flight time have been achieved with P2V props and original gains

flight time:
original props, F450 gains (weight 892gr): 11' 29"
P2V props , F450 gains (weight 901gr): 11' 04"

original props, original gains (weight 892gr): 12' 02"
P2V props , original gains (weight 901gr): 15' 55"

 

[andy2166]

maybe I'm just not as smart as everyone else. After reading the entire thread I'm more confused now than when I started. Assuming everyone that posted their gain settings was flying a 1.1.1 with vision props and not posting p2 gains....
The thread starts out saying that due to the increased lift of vision props the gains need to be reduced. Then people are posting numbers higher than default. Additionally the format given for example of default gains are listed as:
125 125 125 125 100 100 The info screen has one layout of those numbers and the basic/gain screens show a different layout.
So for that default gain in that layout would be pitch 125 roll 125 yaw 125 vert 125 and attitude 100/100?
My default settings are pitch 125 roll 125 yaw 100 vert 100 and attitude 125 125......

Now maybe I didn't get enough oxygen in the womb... But I'm baffled. On a windless day I don't notice much difference. On a windy day like today the vison props fly like crap no matter what I change....

Andy

 

[havasuphoto]

maybe I'm just not as smart as everyone else. After reading the entire thread I'm more confused now than when I started. Assuming everyone that posted their gain settings was flying a 1.1.1 with vision props and not posting p2 gains....
The thread starts out saying that due to the increased lift of vision props the gains need to be reduced. Then people are posting numbers higher than default. Additionally the format given for example of default gains are listed as:
125 125 125 125 100 100 The info screen has one layout of those numbers and the basic/gain screens show a different layout.
So for that default gain in that layout would be pitch 125 roll 125 yaw 125 vert 125 and attitude 100/100?
My default settings are pitch 125 roll 125 yaw 100 vert 100 and attitude 125 125......

Now maybe I didn't get enough oxygen in the womb... But I'm baffled. On a windless day I don't notice much difference. On a windy day like today the vison props fly like crap no matter what I change....

Andy

Gain adjustments with Vision props are always going to be higher than stock....I know it sounds backwards, but that's just what I've found.
IF, you are flying around on a normal day, and don't notice any twitching and the controls respond normally, leave it alone. When it's windy-it's a "catch 22"...you can dial in the gains using the X1/gimbal tilt switch, and experiment. But, what I've found is this; gains set when the wind is 10mph, will react strange when there is zero wind, and vice versa. sometimes you just need to compromise.

 

[andy2166]

So pitch roll yaw and vert are higher is attitude supposed to be higher also? What were the values you found good for you ? Any comment on the settings layout differences between the info page and the basic/gains page in assistant?

 

[havasuphoto]

So pitch roll yaw and vert are higher is attitude supposed to be higher also? What were the values you found good for you ? Any comment on the settings layout differences between the info page and the basic/gains page in assistant?

I would go back and re-read the 16 pages...also, I think there's a whole other thread with more info.
I left basic Attitude alone-default. Only changed basic pitch/roll and yaw. Left Attitude at defaults.
It's something you're going to have to set using the X1/gimbal tilt lever on your remote. Follow the instructions, it's pretty easy. you do pitch/roll together, then yaw.

 

[andy2166]

Reread the posts that have all the contradicting info...got it. Why bother replying if your going to tell someone to Reread the crap that they in their post explained... Never mind. The forum was my last ditch try to understand this.

 

[andy2166]

Ah yes the manual I had to download that has base lines for a 350 450 and 550 but nothing for a phantom.

 

[havasuphoto]

Reread the posts that have all the contradicting info...got it. Why bother replying if your going to tell someone to Reread the crap that they in their post explained... Never mind. The forum was my last ditch try to understand this.

What exactly is it that you want explained? If gain adjustment is too confusing, don't install the Vision props.
Some people didn't need any gain adjustments, and others, like me, needed it.
I believe I explained how, in the Naza software to go too the gains page, and where it says "INH" next to the gains you want to adjust-select X1. Then, try and move your gimbal tilt lever on the back of the remote, and see if the gains change. do pitch/roll together(Basic)....when you've found a gain value where the aircraft holds it's hover, and isn't too twitchy or sloppy-plug the aircraft back into the computer, and read the value in the gains page...let's say its' 170%...OK, now change from X1 to INH in the drop down box next to those 2 values. Then move onto Yaw. If the aircraft is wagging it's tail too fast, go down in Yaw...if it's not responsive enough, raise the gains.

It's also explained on the Gains page of the Naza software-they recommend going up or down, 10% at a time. Each aircraft is different-so that's why I recommend you dial in your gains with your gimbal tilt switch. It's easy. And the gains are not that sensitive. 10% change plus or minus you might not even notice.

OR???

 

[andy2166]

That's what I've been doing.. I just for some reason can't get the sweet spot. maybe I need to walk away from it for a few days.

 

[havasuphoto]

That's what I've been doing.. I just for some reason can't get the sweet spot. maybe I need to walk away from it for a few days.

I don't think there is a sweet spot...at least I haven't found the magic combination. Mine works fine with winds up to about 10 mph...but, in those winds, it twitches a little. You can't see it in the video though.
Basically, I spent about 6 flights messing with the gains-found a compromise that worked for me, and haven't touched them in months.

 

[andy2166]

Finally had a zero wind day for testing. Flew fine with stock Gaines... Flew fine with raised gains....

Conclusion: find something else to do if it's anything more than a light breeze

 

[havasuphoto]

Finally had a zero wind day for testing. Flew fine with stock Gaines... Flew fine with raised gains....

Conclusion: find something else to do if it's anything more than a light breeze :(

You have to define "light breeze"...I'm good to about 10 to 15 mph. Just depends on if it's gusting or not. But, in a hover, the aircraft will twitch, and filming smoothly is easy enough-you have to use the "drift" technique. Go upwind of your subject, switch to atti mode, and guide the aircraft as the wind pushes it back over your subject. You can get surprisingly good results.
However, landings for me in the winds are a be sketchy as I have a big rubber maid tub I use to carry everything, and land on the top of it. It's tough, even in GPS mode, to get the thing to stop bouncing up and down to land softly. basically you have to time the up and down, and just add a bit of throttle at precisely the moment it touches down.

 

[ageedb]

How do you use the gimbal lever on the back of the transmitter to change the gains?!

 

[Lukevia]

Recently crashed my P1.1.1. Likely my error and I've learned from that. But hey, while fixing up a broken quad, why not make upgrades, like two motors to CW threads and get some P2V props. Done!

So I've installed all of this in a new Phantom shell and she's airborne!! (the crowd is going wild). Well, things aren't what they used to be in terms of hover. I know that this could be related to a few things.

1. GPS is cracked (checked it and it isn't the case).
2. Compass isn't properly set up or calibrated properly (checked wires and then recalibrated)
3. IMU has been advanced calibrated too
4. GAINS! <---- I haven't played with my gains.

I had the gains turned up on my older phantom flying the DJI 8" props (and some CF 8" props) when it was carrying a gimbal, camera, VTX and OSD gear. Now I've lost all that but didn't make any adjustments. My gains are 125 for roll/pitch, 100 for yaw, and 135 vertical.

Just spent a good amount of time cruising through this forum and I wanted to ask you guys if, in testing your gains, you ever ran into flights like this one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L25rBO0LmSA

This was a video from earlier today I took. The hover is not going too well and there are obvious times when motors seem to cut out for microseconds and the whole controller drops 3-5 feet. Does anyone think this is gain related? If not, any other ideas?

Thanks in advance!

 

[Fordzuki]

I am very much a newb when it comes to r/c, but like many others, I got pulled into the hobby with the phantom, and picked up a 1.1.1 to fly around a mobius camera. Long story short, I recently sprung for the vision props, and tried them out with stock gains. Unfortunately, it didn't turn out to well, and the phantom seemed to take on a mind of it's own.
The first flight with them was up at my boss' cabin, which admittedly was within view of high voltage powerlines AND a cell tower, but after getting home today, I tried it out in the back yard (after checking the imu for the need to recalibrate, which it didn't) and it exhibited the same symptoms.
First off, there was no slow hover at 3-5 feet like I usually do with the stock props, I lifted off and it kept rising slowly, and drifting around in a 10-12 foot area. Controlling it was about 50/50, and it soon was wandering and rising and it seemed like the phantom was trying to overcompensate for its overcompensations finally leading to a crash on all 3 attempts. On all three flights, I tried landing as soon as it seemed I was losing control, but pulling down on the left stick was doing nothing. On the second flight at the cabin, it got quite a bit away over a wooded area, so I switched the controller off, hoping for a return to home, but it drifted a little further and came down teetering the whole way like it was falling through propwash. All three flights I waited for gps lock before closing the battery door and lifting off.
After crashing again here at the house, I decided to put the stock props back on, and it was immediately back to normal.
At this point I'm a little scared to try the vision props again, even with gain adjustments. And for what I'm doing with the phantom, I think the stock props are where it's at. Fwiw, the vision props were the ebay "xoxox" ones.
I guess this is mostly my take on vision props on a 1.1.1, but also a warning to others to be in a safe area when first flying with different style props.

 

[indyflyers]

Interesting. I had a similar experience when I switched from the 8" plastic stock props to 9" carbon fiber (flying a v1.1). My Phantom was not right - floated and felt a bit out of control. After switching back, I was fine. I spent time on adjusting gains and finally found a sweet spot. The new props are similar to the old and I feel better about flying with them. Consider taking another look at the gains.

 

[crashmaniac]

Hey guys,

Is there such a thing as more powerful motors that will replace the DJI installed standard ones ?

I am sort of thinking if there were, it much be a simple fix to make the phantom lift a better quality camera ?

what do you guys think ?

any body done this ?

cheers

 

[THE-WISHMASTER]

Hello there.

I,m Mischa from the Netherlands.
I bought myself 9.4x4.3 Maytech carbon props for my phantom 1
Now I try several gain settings but it still wobbles.
The best result till now is with the settings of havasuphoto
My phantom is a stock phantom 1 with fatshark tx and gopro mount with an pz0420 fpv camera.
So the setup is not very heavy maybe around 800/900 gram.
Can somebody help me out with those gain settings :roll:

 

[han]

Hi ! Understand there are so many considerations when it comes to gain adjustments; weight p1,p2, props brand, geographical locations etc.
and it's been 20 pages so i've given up looking for that magical gain number.

Would like to know the principals of adjustment so I can 'read' the phantom well, and any other copters in the future.
(Oh yes, i've crash my Phantom 2 (H33D) after fitting on carbon props 9443 from Maytech. Pitched forward, slowed down, and my P2 basically sank and flipped over. That was before I even knew gain settings exist.)

Few questions for the pros I hope will help those in need like me.

1) Is basic gain pitch and roll usually the same number (%) ? Likewise for basic gain yaw and vertical ? Cos i always see results posting Pitch and roll same number, likewise for yaw and vert.

2) What is the relationship between them ? Usually which pair (pitch&roll and yaw&vertical) is higher ? What makes one higher than the other (payload, weight) ?

3) Let's say you get a screwed up phantom, what are your steps to balancing the gains ? Assuming default setting never existed.

Please teach me how to fish
Thanks

 

[crashmaniac]

WARNING WARNING !!

Nearly crashed mine after fitting these 9" Carbon Fibre Props,
I thought it was strange that they would not nip up tight when I used the DJI prop tool.

If I held the motor i could still turn the prop. Problem being some CF props are made with the threaded piece in two parts with the cap just glued on & the internal threaded piece a fiction fit in the prop !!

I cut a couple up to see how they were made, one had a glued on cap & the threaded piece in two bits, with smooth sides.
The other had a glued on cap also and a knurled section on the sides to help hold the prop, but because the small cap was glued & pushed on there was nothing but friction to hold the prop tight underload and the design was floored by not having it in one piece & made so the cap could stop the prop from coming free !

very big concern ? so be careful which sort you buy !