P4 camera not as sharp as I was hoping

[Jussaguy]

I've never had a DJI product in which Dlog mode didn't affect sharpening. It might simply be the absence of any stylized color mode default sharpening, so not really 'purposefully softer', but the end result is the same. With color mode to standard and sharpness at 0, you're telling me the sharpness is identical to Dlog mode with sharpness at 0? I grade everything I shoot, and I can't speak to your specific copies of drones or footage, but on mine (ranging from P2's to current P4) is always like that. It's like looking at a DSLR raw file versus a jpeg-saved parameter, of course it's softer.

If you're getting nice clarity and sharpness on your P4 with Dlog, maybe DJI is just putting out a ton of copies with issues... because mine is ****, and looks like the sample vid further up this thread. Completely un-usable (and un-sharpenable).

Could you post a sample from yours, with full setting specs, no processing?

Again, being able to see something a little better (like blur) vs. it actually making the image softer are two very different things and the end result is not the same because you can't do the same things with a blurry image that you can with a sharp one.

Keying for example. We turn the cameras to an unrealistic, non-motion blur 90 degree angle in order to key a principle and then we add the motion blur back in in post.

I did post something in this thread already but I was testing my faulty bird today and remember this thread and although I was just recoding to record, not for any reason, I made sure to keep it in D-log remembering this thread. I will upload that from today.

Don't get me wrong, the footage might not look good at all but I'm taking footage that I wasn't planning on using for anything and also not using proper workflow.

Should go from bird, to converter and blow up to ProRes 422 and then export at will with your second generation loss pro-res but at least you save one generation by going to ProRes.

But I'm just gonna dump it in to Avid and expor for YouTube and post it here. So what I will post will have 3 generation losses from an h264 master!

I can't count the ways in which that is horrible. Literally taking a fair codec, making it crap and then taking a piss on it after that.

 

[Jussaguy]

I've never had a DJI product in which Dlog mode didn't affect sharpening. It might simply be the absence of any stylized color mode default sharpening, so not really 'purposefully softer', but the end result is the same. With color mode to standard and sharpness at 0, you're telling me the sharpness is identical to Dlog mode with sharpness at 0? I grade everything I shoot, and I can't speak to your specific copies of drones or footage, but on mine (ranging from P2's to current P4) is always like that. It's like looking at a DSLR raw file versus a jpeg-saved parameter, of course it's softer.

If you're getting nice clarity and sharpness on your P4 with Dlog, maybe DJI is just putting out a ton of copies with issues... because mine is ****, and looks like the sample vid further up this thread. Completely un-usable (and un-sharpenable).

Could you post a sample from yours, with full setting specs, no processing?

I knew I wasn't crazy.

I went into my editor and this was still there from last night.

Random video was not planning on showing this to anyone but if you read the thread, I already posted this to show what I'm getting in D-Log with I switch the style menu to custom and put -1, -1, and -1 for sharpness, contrast, and saturation. I can't remember if I turned off 3d noise reduction but you should. I don't like it. I find the h264 artifacts are actually more noticeable when using it and I have anti-flicker to auto. With h264 you are always going to get some blur when having motion that is a whip pan or something but you should get a decent image using D-Log without many other changes. * BTW, I used to set sharpness to -2 or -3 or even 4 on the P3P but they definitely moved the sharpness up a bit for the equilibrium setting.

I wasn't testing picture here so please keep that in mind. I have been working on hardware lately but I usually like to record anyway and when I do, I often like to mess with various settings. Might as well make everything a learning experience but these are my go to settings with the 4 which by the way shoots VERY warm, so did the p3. Warm, for the uninitiated, means red, away from blue (which is considered cool).

So here is what I posted yesterday to show that I am not having the issue you are having. PLEASE don't take that as "everything is fine, see?" because in fact I am having a bevy of my own problems but picture quality isn't one of them.

AND AGAIN, keep in mind that there are 3 generation losses here so there is MUCH more compression and artifacts than the original file. I just looked at them side by side and it's horrible. I hate ruining video. I wish they would make a Phantom with an X5.

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[Phantom4man]

Yes, and I always used to shoot in DLOG but it was extremely noticeable after the last update, looks like massive posterisation.
If I had footage that I needed for a job it would have been ruined or extremely difficult/time consuming to fix in post.
A lot of guys on InspirePilots are complaining about DLOG looking **** since a few updates ago as well.

dlog i find is just appalling to use. The drone is basically not delivering video as advertised.

 

[Jussaguy]

dlog i find is just appalling to use. The drone is basically not delivering video as advertised.

Does you video look worse than mine above?

Bare in mind that you are looking at a third generation and YouTube's crap processing there and it looks pretty decent. If I did it right and blew it up first and then exported, it would look about 15-20% better.

If you are getting the image quality that I have above and are unhappy then you are going to be unhappy with it.

Also keep in mind that that is d-log and not color corrected. If I spent 20 minutes color correcting that, I could make it look perfect.

 

[Phantom4man]

Jussaguy, thanks for the youtube link, i am ripping off youtube now to play offline.

 

[Jussaguy]

Jussaguy, thanks for the youtube link, i am ripping off youtube now to play offline.

Good god, I would ask that you please don't. That's adding yet another generation loss and this time it will be the worst one of all.

If you rip that off of YouTube, it will look like horse dookie.

In fact, if you want, I'll send you the original MP4 or MOV whatever it is. I have a 300 mega bit upload and download so it will be quick for me to send but I have to do it tomorrow because I'm so **** tired now.

 

[Phantom4man]

lol...no probs dude. only my net is being sucked to oblivion by everyone here so streaming is slooooowwwwwwwww.....can you make it available via dropbox or wetransfer? I can give you my email for wetransfer or hightail?

 

[Jussaguy]

lol...no probs dude. only my net is being sucked to oblivion by everyone here so streaming is slooooowwwwwwwww.....can you make it available via dropbox or wetransfer? I can give you my email for wetransfer or hightail?

Yeah, I'll send some stuff your way tomorrow. Going to bed now my friend.

Word of advice from someone who just had a battle with his second P4 and won (I think). Take a couple days off. I was getting so frustrated, I couldn't think straight and then I just had to walk away for a bit because it wasn't fun, and I was going crazy. Came back to it a few days later and figured it out, sort of. Different issues though and only with one. I have one perfect bird that if I didn't have a second I would think you were all crazy.

I understand you are trying to figure out if you need to return or not. My mother is actually coming in town tomorrow but I will try and send it in the morning. Yikes. Holy crap, it's 5:30. NITE!

 

[Phantom4man]

Yeah, I'll send some stuff your way tomorrow. Going to bed now my friend.

Word of advice from someone who just had a battle with his second P4 and won (I think). Take a couple days off. I was getting so frustrated, I couldn't think straight and then I just had to walk away for a bit because it wasn't fun, and I was going crazy. Came back to it a few days later and figured it out, sort of. Different issues though and only with one. I have one perfect bird that if I didn't have a second I would think you were all crazy.

I understand you are trying to figure out if you need to return or not. My mother is actually coming in town tomorrow but I will try and send it in the morning. Yikes. Holy crap, it's 5:30. NITE!

Cheers,

its is burning me up. Its driving me nuts.

Goodnight

 

[EyesofCanadaGoose]

I am going to post a video in the next couple days that will show the best workflow for purposes of minimizing the artifacts and not adding to them as you edit and export and send to YouTube or Vimeo or whatever.

That would be super cool. Can you upload the actual video sample as a file to somewhere like dropbox or googledrive, so VIMEO and youtube don't add their own compression?

Edit***: I remember it's you with that problem of blur using d-log. Please understand while this may definitely be happening, it's not the D-log setting itself that's causing it. It might be triggering the issue but in and of itself, the color profile has LITERALLY NOTHING to do with focus or blur. It might show things more or less but not cause them. Dig?

Not me, but I got it.

 

[EyesofCanadaGoose]

I know it's not the answer for stills, but watch this vid about turning off 3d noise reduction for video during the day. Someone else commented it's good to have on at night but turn it off during the day.

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Thanks so much zacksomeone for the sample! Holy crap! The difference in noise is like day and night! I don't have P4 yet, but will check this setting out.

 

[Chopstix Kid]

Awesome! You're one of the first people that seem to care as much about the camera as the bird that I've found around here. Watch my video on the formats, and PM me if you want to discuss over phone.

Anyhow, the camera on this and even the Inspire, unless you have the pro is maybe a little better than an iPhone camera which isn't bad by the way.

To have control of the f-stop functionality, you're gonna need to step up from this. The cam is essentially the same as the P3P, I think exactly the same but they added some tweaks in the firmware which you could have done with the P3P manually but you can get better images with the P4 without much work than you could with the P3P or even the X3.

If you want a full DSLR then you need to step up to a S1000, Tornado or build a hex or octo but you're gonna need more power to lift a heavy cam. I'll be interested to see which manufacturer takes advantage of the Red Mini which shoots unreal looking Raw 4K and gives you every bit of manual control and SICK contrast with ISO so high it's redic and stop range from 1-22 I believe.

I'm getting absolutely beautiful imagery night and day with the Phantoms though for video and photo.

I'm gonna post a tutorial with my workflow as to remove one level of generation loss. Anything you see on YouTube of any Phantom without using the method I will post has a minimum of 3 generation losses and people that think "it's digital, I can copy it as many times as I want" sometimes have up to 3-6 generation losses which with h264 which is what the Phantoms spit out in mov and MP4 do not have ANY room for compression. One generation loss is fairly significant and the only way to export other than right out of the bird.

The images that you copy to your hard drive from the sd card is the best that that image will ever look (not counting color correction and stuff of course).

I'm gonna make a vid on it soon. Have been planning on it. I'll have the Typhoon H pretty soon too and I'm gonna do a review and a "set up along with me" video within a week or two.

Your comparison to an iPhone camera puts a lot into perspective. We do ton of social media work in my industry and many people know how to really work the settings with their smart phone cameras to capture phenomenal shots. It makes sense that the same capabilities are possible here with similar effort.

But yeah, I bought this as a tool and as such, hope to really utilize it's capabilities (both aircraft and camera) to their potential. I'm absorbing as much info as I can, when I can, and putting in practice bit by bit. I'll keep an eye out for the vids and thanks for the offer! I might take you up on that!

 

[WetDog]

There are cell phone clips stuffed in big budget movies. There was most of an indie film shot with an iPhone 5. The big issue with limited systems like an iPhone or a Phantom is that they're - wait for it - limited. You simply don't have the options of major post processing latitude (kids are spoiled these days, I remember Kodachrome and I liked it uphill both ways in the snow), lens choice, aperture choice, pan speeds, focus choices etc.

Once you know what the Phantom can do, it can be a perfectly cromulent addition to your toolkit. For about $2000 (start to finish) it's pretty damned amazing. Hell, there are battery boxes that cost that much. Professional video is hella expensive.

Remember the GoPro? Not a particularly good camera as things go. Awful lens. You should see the pro guys whine about some decisions they made building the system. But it allowed a film maker to put a decent camera right next to a tire for $400 so when the rock hit it you didn't end up with $20K of Arri spare parts and miscellaneous debris. Another tool.

 

[Alf]

I am having the same issues with my new P4 in that the pictures are out of focus on the edges, smudgy. Not clear at all. Using manual settings. Video setting set on art to retain best detail.

 

[kev0]

I am having the same issues with my new P4 in that the pictures are out of focus on the edges, smudgy. Not clear at all. Using manual settings. Video setting set on art to retain best detail.

Looks like SA skyline, Alfwarez?

 

[Alf]

Correct, taken from Modderfontein.

 

[peterepeat69]

The p4 is "smudgy" compared to my advanced, I'd say return your p4


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[kev0]

Correct, taken from Modderfontein.

Thought I'd let you know your old P3 is in good hands still hope you're well!

 

[Alf]

good to hear from you.

 

[Alf]

Okay did another shoot, but with the help of photoshop. Quality dramtically improved. I would go as far to say that the P4 produces better clarity photos to the horizon than the P3.