Nearly got arrested for flying

[Neon Euc]

This isn't a moan.... More of a friendly heads up. I was flying today at dover harbour uk and some guy was interested in the drone. So I know its usually people moaning but I thought "what the ****" let him try it.

He loved it... Then as he went I flew around the ferry harbour and got great shots. Then two men from the ferry port wearing hi vis vest came up to me and said "you can not fly here, best pack up as the police are on their way to investigate"

So of course I packed up and went. Despite being a bit shocked. Reason why I am saying this is because

1) I flew legally 150 meters away from the ships

2) flew with the sea below me so it wasn't above any traffic, people, etc....

However afterwards I did Google check and yes.... I WAS IN THE WRONG as there was still requirements to fly around the harbour even if its out at sea (something I never knew after a year of flying)

so for anyone to say its OK to film ships 150+ meters away and with the ocean below you doesn't mean to say your still doing things legally.

This was a simple mistake and error ALL ON MY PART AND NO ONE ELSE.

I thought I would just share this with you guys to prevent any problems that you can stop before it starts.

Needless to say despite seeing the police car drive past I wasn't stopped and I also got some fantastic shots. (3 ferries lined up and me chasing one of them out to sea)

But like I said guys... This is not a moan. It was me and a simple mistake I made thinking I am doing things legally.

Moral of the story... Just do a quick Google check of the rules and regulations.... Even if you are flying out at sea.

Happy flying and I hope this helps other people. Esp at dover in the UK

 

[sar104]

So were you actually breaking a law by filming the ships, or was it purely a location issue?

 

[Neon Euc]

I think it was location. To film there you need permission. Something I never thought about since I was over the ocean.

 

[anotherlab]

So were you actually breaking a law by filming the ships, or was it purely a location issue?

Location. It looks like only commercial filming is allowed, and only with permission. From the Filming & event page on the Port's web site.

Commercial drone filming from Port of Dover property, including Dover Beach, is prohibited without written prior permission from Dover Harbour Board. All commercial requests are considered on a case by case basis and the supply of CAA permission, pilot accreditation, flight plan, risk assessment and public liability insurance (no less than £5 million). Public drones are not permitted on any Port of Dover property.​

 

[Neon Euc]

Spot on. I saw that a few hours after the incident. Thought I would point it out for anyone else flying over the sea

 

[Pharm]

Glad we don't have to write to you in prison, you lawbreaker!

 

[AirMan05446]

Commercial drone filming from Port of Dover property, including Dover Beach, is prohibited without written prior permission from Dover Harbour Board. All commercial requests are considered on a case by case basis and the supply of CAA permission, pilot accreditation, flight plan, risk assessment and public liability insurance (no less than £5 million). Public drones are not permitted on any Port of Dover property.​

Says nothing about flying over from off-property.

 

[Peter Hartmann]

Nothing new here. Knowledge is power. Some personality types need to feel they have power over others. Been that way probably since BEFORE we climbed down out of the trees.

Drones are "something different". Anyone familiar with how the general populace reacted to the first automobiles knows what we drone operators have to deal with.

 

[anotherlab]

Says nothing about flying over from off-property.

It doesn't say anything about launching from off property, It's very clear about not allowing filming while over the property. It doesn't matter where you launched from.

 

[dayviduk]

I didnt know you could own the airspace above a property

 

[anotherlab]

I didnt know you could own the airspace above a property

No, but you can restrict the access to it.

 

[macoman]

Wondering if this apply to US or it's because the UK is very restricted with drones.

 

[anotherlab]

Wondering if this apply to US or it's because the UK is very restricted with drones.

UK laws are probably more restrictive than US laws. But if you look at places like NYC, the entire city is a no fly zone. Unless you have a well known blog, and even then it's not not allowed. LA is pretty restrictive and good luck trying to fly one near DisneyWorld.

 

[Viewfinder]

OP - you may think you nearly got arrested but if you had been it probably would have been a wrongful arrest, because:-

1. The Air Navigation Order (ANO), which is enforced by the Civil Aviation Authority (CAA), places limits on where a drone can fly. Breach of these limits is a criminal offence enforceable ultimately by a public prosecution. Your description of your flight suggests that you were complying with these limits and therefore you were not committing a criminal offence.

2. Individual property owners can place restrictions on the use of their property for take-off and landing. For example, Dover Harbour Board can prohibit the use of their land for take-off and landing of a drone. Breach of such a prohibition will be a civil matter, probably an action for trespass, unless the organisation imposing the prohibition is using statutory powers. Usually if the police get involved because a landowner has complained you can point out that you have not committed any criminal offence provided the ANO limits have not been breached. I don't know whether you were taking off from or landing on Dover Harbour Board property, or whether DHB have adequate statutory powers to impose a prohibition, but if you were not using their property and you were complying with the ANO there is nothing DHB can do to stop you.

3. The reason DHB can't do anything is because owners of properties which are not excluded by the ANO cannot prevent you over-flying their properties provided you are at a reasonable height and you do not make such frequent over-flights that you could be guilty of harassment. Here are some excerpts from a legal briefing note prepared by the Country Land and Business Association Limited: 'However, for non-commercial drone pilots that do not respond to a polite request the answer for now seems to be that aside from a potentially costly action for an infringement of your privacy or trying to convince the police that the flights amount to a criminal harassment there is little you can do to prevent them.... Section s76(1) Civil Aviation Act 1982 prevents claims being brought in trespass or nuisance against aircraft, provided they are flying at a reasonable height and comply with the Air Navigation Order.... Landowners in England and Wales are not entitled to all the airspace above their land, the position is well summed up by Griffiths J in Bernstein of Leigh v Skyviews & General Limited [1978] 1QB 479.'

I have printed several copies of the CLA briefing note and I carry them with me ready to hand out f anyone accosts me. You can download it here: https://www.cla.org.uk/sites/default/files/GN10-17 Drones and Private Property 2017.pdf

 

[FilmicDude]

Glad we don't have to write to you in prison, you lawbreaker!

So glad that the people in this forum have a sense of humor...makes a difference.

 

[Neon Euc]

OP - you may think you nearly got arrested but if you had been it probably would have been a wrongful arrest, because:-

1. The Air Navigation Order (ANO), which is enforced by the Civil Aviation Authority (CAA), places limits on where a drone can fly. Breach of these limits is a criminal offence enforceable ultimately by a public prosecution. Your description of your flight suggests that you were complying with these limits and therefore you were not committing a criminal offence.

2. Individual property owners can place restrictions on the use of their property for take-off and landing. For example, Dover Harbour Board can prohibit the use of their land for take-off and landing of a drone. Breach of such a prohibition will be a civil matter, probably an action for trespass, unless the organisation imposing the prohibition is using statutory powers. Usually if the police get involved because a landowner has complained you can point out that you have not committed any criminal offence provided the ANO limits have not been breached. I don't know whether you were taking off from or landing on Dover Harbour Board property, or whether DHB have adequate statutory powers to impose a prohibition, but if you were not using their property and you were complying with the ANO there is nothing DHB can do to stop you.

3. The reason DHB can't do anything is because owners of properties which are not excluded by the ANO cannot prevent you over-flying their properties provided you are at a reasonable height and you do not make such frequent over-flights that you could be guilty of harassment. Here are some excerpts from a legal briefing note prepared by the Country Land and Business Association Limited: 'However, for non-commercial drone pilots that do not respond to a polite request the answer for now seems to be that aside from a potentially costly action for an infringement of your privacy or trying to convince the police that the flights amount to a criminal harassment there is little you can do to prevent them.... Section s76(1) Civil Aviation Act 1982 prevents claims being brought in trespass or nuisance against aircraft, provided they are flying at a reasonable height and comply with the Air Navigation Order.... Landowners in England and Wales are not entitled to all the airspace above their land, the position is well summed up by Griffiths J in Bernstein of Leigh v Skyviews & General Limited [1978] 1QB 479.'

I have printed several copies of the CLA briefing note and I carry them with me ready to hand out f anyone accosts me. You can download it here: https://www.cla.org.uk/sites/default/files/GN10-17 Drones and Private Property 2017.pdf

Thanks for the link, really interesting to read and what you mentioned makes sense as that's why I thought I was doing things legally. But I think they may have their own airspace despite me launching ⅓ a mile away from the harbour and flying near it over the ocean. Really hopes that this may help other flyers in future [emoji4]

 

[GWAYGWAY]

So were you actually breaking a law by filming the ships, or was it purely a location issue?

Dover Harbour is ALL private property and unless you have written permission you are in the wrong. They have their own Police Force and they can be right snotty about what they think you can do or not, they make the rules at the time.

 

[sar104]

Dover Harbour is ALL private property and unless you have written permission you are in the wrong. They have their own Police Force and they can be right snotty about what they think you can do or not, they make the rules at the time.

Right. But presumably they don't own airspace rights too, so they would only be able to impose private property rights to prevent takeoff or landing from that property, not to prevent overflights.

 

[GWAYGWAY]

No but they have direct control over that entire area,within an area is all the places that you might possibly be able to fly FROM . They have legal jurisdiction a mile from the Harbour as well

 

[sar104]

No but they have direct control over that entire area,within an area is all the places that you might possibly be able to fly FROM . They have legal jurisdiction a mile from the Harbour as well

In that case they pretty much have drones locked out.