Flying in class B airspace as a recreational pilot

@mpshev

IMO: It is unlikely that Class B includes or extends below 400' AGL at 5 miles from the center of any airport. Thus the coordination of the 5 mile distance and the 400' altitude requirement for notification.

Therefore, a Hobbyist who is flying more than 5 miles away, below 400' AGL, will never have any problems or be in violation of controlled airspace.

As been pointed out in this thread, the Boston Logan Class B surface extends out to 8 NM.

(I remember when it became a TCA - the classic "upside-down wedding cake").
 
Yea, there's a few.
Thanks.
 
So having an extra hour this morning I looked at all the Class Bravo airports in the USA via vfrmap.com. A few things caught my eye.

1. Very few have a circular inner ring at a constant radius. That was to be expected when two or more major cities were nearby.

2. Only about 5 airports have an inner ring at less than 6 NM: CLE, CVG, TPA, MCO, EWR

3. EWR has it's inner ring at 4 NM. Yep Class G airspace at 4NM so in this case, flying as 107 vs hobby has it's advantage.
 
With over 5000 airports in the us with paved runways I imagine there's more than just 5.
 
With over 5000 airports in the us with paved runways I imagine there's more than just 5.
there are only 37 class B airports.
 
I think the issue is more that info on class B is a lot harder to find than the 5 mile rule. Most of the map programs designed for UAV pilots (hobby) will point out all the airports, but will not show class B air space.


Then the info should be readily available to hobbyists. If an individual goes to register his UAS for recreational purposes on the FAA website, and it indicates that he must notify within 5 miles, and he is flying 6 miles away (yet in class B airspace), he has no reason to think he is not in the clear.


The info is available to everyone, hobbyists and professionals alike. I posted the resources above, along with resources to instruct one how to interpret those resources. See post #22 of this thread. But be forewarned. If you want to understand how to read a sectional you may have to actually put in some effort. They are actually extremely interesting. If you give yourself an hour alone, without distraction, with a sectional or TAC you'll know everything you need to know about reading one of them.
 
OK, I think most on here have missed a big point. Has anyone actually notified the ATC or tower at an airport that they are about to launch a drone? I have. They ask where and how far out. If you are prepared, that is having a bearing from the airport and a distance, they will check and give you an OK, or ask why you need to fly. If you are within Class B airspace they will tell you (within about a nano-second) and ask that you provide a lot of detailed info. If you are below their (Class B) floor, they will tell you and give you an altitude limit based on their anticipated traffic. They also ask about communications in case the situation changes. They don't just deny approval out of hand (at least the half dozen times I have asked - 4 approved, 2 denied for reasons they gave me). The point is THEY will ask if they determine that you are going to be in Class B when you make that required "notification". Class B airspace is not a relaxed day at the beach, but is accessible under reasonable circumstances, and when it isn't, ATC has always been polite and professional with me.
 
I do use Airmap because it does give me just about every possible restriction. I have, as mentioned, flown within the 5 mi radius of airports, and have made the required "notifications". Airmap tells me if I am within or outside of any restrictions before I get ready to launch, and helps me find the phone numbers to make that notification call. I am sure there are other sites and apps out there that are as good and maybe better. Good flying takes just a bit of prep work before launch, and checking for restrictions is part of that.
 
If you're more than 5 miles from an airport and you still see class B airspace indicated on the sectional map, check the class B airspace lower shelf altitude to know if you are legal. On each sectional map where you see class B airspace you'll see sets of numbers that look like fractions. Add two zeros to each number in the fraction and you'll know the upper and lower limits of class B in AGL. In the attached example, Chicago ORD, if you are located within the inner blue circle the class B airspace starts at the service (SFC) and goes up to 10,000 ft. To fly a UAV in this area for any reason you'll need to follow the communication protocols described earlier by FlyerFocus. Look at the next circle out. That fraction means that Class B airspace begins at 1900ft. AGL and goes up to 10,000 ft. In this area you are in class G airspace and are legal to fly without any communications with ATC. Also be aware of other overlapping airspace indications, like class C, D, and E. Hope this helps. In addition, I use an app called ForeFlight, it gives accurate real time information on air space, TFRs, weather and other pertinent information.
 

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Look at the next circle out. That fraction means that Class B airspace begins at 1900ft. AGL and goes up to 10,000 ft. In this area you are in class G airspace and are legal to fly without any communications with ATC.

All good stuff. Just wanted to note that the title of this topic is about rec./ hobby flying (as Chief Joe is talking about) and any Class rules as mentioned are for 107 / 333. Just to keep it clear.
 
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JFK is 8NM Surface to 7000ft.


Thanks, but as a hobbyist one need not [necessarily] be concerned about classification if they are more than 5 miles from airport and follow all the other FAA guidelines for hobby flying. On the other hand if they are within 5 miles then they only need inform the 'tower' as they cannot deny operation.
 
On the other hand if they are within 5 miles then they only need inform the 'tower' as they cannot deny operation.

In theory. However, when notified, they can say they don't want you to fly. And if you do, then you would be in violation of 14 CFR 101.43: "No person may operate model aircraft so as to endanger the safety of the national airspace system." Because they are the ones that determine whether it's safe. So if they say NO ....

See https://www.federalregister.gov/d/2014-14948/p-51 which explains this.
 
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On each sectional map where you see class B airspace you'll see sets of numbers that look like fractions. Add two zeros to each number in the fraction and you'll know the upper and lower limits of class B in AGL. In the attached example, Chicago ORD, if you are located within the inner blue circle the class B airspace starts at the service (SFC) and goes up to 10,000 ft. To fly a UAV in this area for any reason you'll need to follow the communication protocols described earlier by FlyerFocus. Look at the next circle out. That fraction means that Class B airspace begins at 1900ft. AGL and goes up to 10,000 ft.

Actually these numbers are MSL (above mean sea level)
 
who here has a 107 RP Licence? I was reading through these because I live in the Philadelphia area and in 2013 they moved Bravo Airspace Inner wedding cake further out to now put my house into B Airspace. I can literally go 2 blocks over and the B Airspace goes to 1500 . I am 107 licensed and have to follow the rules under that. The airport is 8.5NM from my house 10.3 NM . My question is can I fly as a hobbiest for fun when I am not doing commercial work? I would assume so. Feedback would be great.
 
who here has a 107 RP Licence? I was reading through these because I live in the Philadelphia area and in 2013 they moved Bravo Airspace Inner wedding cake further out to now put my house into B Airspace. I can literally go 2 blocks over and the B Airspace goes to 1500 . I am 107 licensed and have to follow the rules under that. The airport is 8.5NM from my house 10.3 NM . My question is can I fly as a hobbiest for fun when I am not doing commercial work? I would assume so. Feedback would be great.
I'm 107 certified (fwiw); and was wondering the same thing--but as you can see in some earlier posts on this thread, Class B is also not permitted by hobbyist. At least according to the FAA's website. There seems to be some debate though if these added limitations for hobbyist is actually legal.

If I were you, I'd consider applying for an airspace waiver around your house--then you wouldn't have to worry too much about whether you can fly as a hobbyist or not. It's absurd that commercial pilots who (ostensibly) are much more familiar with the airspace system should have less rights and privileges than someone who is clueless and poses more of a danger--but that's the Federal government for you--at least the FAA is more reasonable than most Departments...
 
Thanks, but as a hobbyist one need not [necessarily] be concerned about classification if they are more than 5 miles from airport and follow all the other FAA guidelines for hobby flying. On the other hand if they are within 5 miles then they only need inform the 'tower' as they cannot deny operation.


This is one of the first times I've ever disagreed with anything you've posted. They most certainly CAN deny you. They won't approve but if any portion of your flight creates a safety hazard for traffic they can and will deny your "notification". If they deny they will give you specific (or they are supposed to) reasons and will often give you options that may or may not work (as in an alternate time frame).
 
I'm 107 certified (fwiw); and was wondering the same thing--but as you can see in some earlier posts on this thread, Class B is also not permitted by hobbyist. At least according to the FAA's website. There seems to be some debate though if these added limitations for hobbyist is actually legal.

If I were you, I'd consider applying for an airspace waiver around your house--then you wouldn't have to worry too much about whether you can fly as a hobbyist or not. It's absurd that commercial pilots who (ostensibly) are much more familiar with the airspace system should have less rights and privileges than someone who is clueless and poses more of a danger--but that's the Federal government for you--at least the FAA is more reasonable than most Departments...

Yes you can fly as a hobbyist even though your are Part 107. We all have this option but keep in mind that the "intent" of the flight (hobby or commercial) has to be made prior to taking off and the entire flight must be carried out to completion following those rules.

For instance you decide to fly as a hobbyist from your back hard (inside Class BRAVO). While you're flying you see something "Commercial Photo Worthy". If you were to take pics/video and then sell them you've busted the regs. That's a FAR stretch but hopefully it demonstrates the concept at hand.
 
The airport is 8.5NM from my house 10.3 NM .

Could ya clarify that? As the ring is 8NM but you are saying something about 8.5 and 10.3 from your house?

In theory you could as hobby, but when you notify the tower, they will object. So no you won't be able to.
 
Yes you can fly as a hobbyist even though your are Part 107. We all have this option but keep in mind that the "intent" of the flight (hobby or commercial) has to be made prior to taking off and the entire flight must be carried out to completion following those rules.

For instance you decide to fly as a hobbyist from your back hard (inside Class BRAVO). While you're flying you see something "Commercial Photo Worthy". If you were to take pics/video and then sell them you've busted the regs. That's a FAR stretch but hopefully it demonstrates the concept at hand.

Don't you still need to get actual permission though to fly as a hobbyist in Class B--not just simple notification for flying less than 5 miles away from an airport? That being said--it's (ironically) easier (and MUCH faster) to call the Tower than it is to use the portal for 107 authorizations.

Airspace Restrictions

See attached screenshot.
 

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