Flying in class B airspace as a recreational pilot

[Helihover]

Good post David.

My question, how is a hobbiest supposed to know what class B airspace is?

 

[FlyerFocus]

Good post David.

My question, how is a hobbiest supposed to know what class B airspace is?

The "what" is here: Activities, Courses, Seminars & Webinars - ALC_Content - FAA - FAASTeam - FAASafety.gov

For the "where" you need to buy a sectional or terminal area chart. Or you can look here:

SkyVector: Flight Planning / Aeronautical Charts

Though I do not know if this resource is considered to be usable for navigation though they appear to up-to-date, even with current TFRs. Current sectionals and terminal area charts expire every six months and as long as they are current they are considered valid.

More info: Sectional Aeronautical Chart

More info: How To Read A Sectional Chart

(Every sectional comes with a page that explains all markings as well)

Purchase here (there are other vendors but I get mine here): FAA and Jeppesen Aviation Charts

 

[Helihover]

Cool

But for somebody that just walks into a store, buys a drone & registration......

 

[FlyerFocus]

Cool

But for somebody that just walks into a store, buys a drone & registration......

I'll assume you're just having fun with me ... for those aren't assuming that, if you are going to fly you need to invest the time to understand and fully comprehend the airspace. You will be sharing the sky, Understanding the airspace helps you to not share too closely or attempt to occupy all four dimensions with another aircraft. If you are not willing to take this time to gain this knowledge, please voluntarily ground yourself. Seriously, you can kill someone or a B737 full of someones.

 

[BigAl07]

If you're going to play WITH the big boys you need to be invested and understand the what/where/when.

Ignorance is no excuse when life & limb could be on the line.

 

[Steve Hange]

I wanted to do an aerial photo of our office and team for a company event. Our office is within 5 miles of San Antonio airport. My app would not engage rotors. Said in a No Fly Zone.
I think it's a bit extreme for just trying to get a roof high (20') shot. But, I guess it's to protect against those who may want to take it higher in that area.

 

[mnewxcv]

I'll assume you're just having fun with me ... for those aren't assuming that, if you are going to fly you need to invest the time to understand and fully comprehend the airspace. You will be sharing the sky, Understanding the airspace helps you to not share too closely or attempt to occupy all four dimensions with another aircraft. If you are not willing to take this time to gain this knowledge, please voluntarily ground yourself. Seriously, you can kill someone or a B737 full of someones.

I think the issue is more that info on class B is a lot harder to find than the 5 mile rule. Most of the map programs designed for UAV pilots (hobby) will point out all the airports, but will not show class B air space.

If you're going to play WITH the big boys you need to be invested and understand the what/where/when.

Ignorance is no excuse when life & limb could be on the line.

Then the info should be readily available to hobbyists. If an individual goes to register his UAS for recreational purposes on the FAA website, and it indicates that he must notify within 5 miles, and he is flying 6 miles away (yet in class B airspace), he has no reason to think he is not in the clear.

 

[Helihover]

I'll assume you're just having fun with me ... for those aren't assuming that, if you are going to fly you need to invest the time to understand and fully comprehend the airspace. You will be sharing the sky, Understanding the airspace helps you to not share too closely or attempt to occupy all four dimensions with another aircraft. If you are not willing to take this time to gain this knowledge, please voluntarily ground yourself. Seriously, you can kill someone or a B737 full of someones.

No, I'm not having fun with you, I'm asking a serious question. As a 107 certificate holder, I'm well aware of the airspace classifications. I had to study to learn that. As stated above, the 5 mile radius rule is pretty well known. Class B airspace from the surface outside of this 5 mile radius is not well known. People buying drones and just having fun with them are not studying how to read sectional charts.

 

[mpshev]

Is there anything against this? I am in the process of planning out a flight, a flight outside of the 5mi radius of an airport, but the area is still considered class B airspace (according to airmap).

What is the floor of the Bravo airspace? Where does it begin. I highly dought that if your 5 miles out that it would be from the SVC

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[Joe Glenn]

Airel Drone Services, are you a part Airplane Pilot? Have you flown a plane into Class B? I'm asking because I think there is some confusion going on with this question. No one gets into Class B legally without specific permission and the controller using the words cleared into Class Bravo Airspace. NOW I have a feeling you might be talking about flying under class B airspace in which case would be OK. That's the reason I'm asking if you are a Pilot as if no,t you might not know how to read a sectional and decipher the wedding cake effect of Class Bravo Airspace. I'm not trying to be "smart" or a jerk at all, I'm just wondering. You may be an airline Pilot for all I know, just asking. I'm a Private Pilot with an instrument rating and got my license at Phoenix Sky Harbor in 1987. Since then I'm flown in the Sky Harbor Class B numerous times, and believe me they don't want to see a drone in that airspace. BUT under it is another story. And Yes I know in 1987 it was not even class be. I grew up there and remember it being an ARSA, a TCA etc. Still, since it went class B years ago I've flown in it.

 

[N017RW]

@mpshev... There are lots of charts and graphs describing Class-B available by a simple Google search.

...People buying drones and just having fun with them are not studying how to read sectional charts.

You're right Hh, and they don't need to.

(In the US) Registering their drone with the FAA provides them all the info they need.
During the process you agreed to a set of guidelines...

• I will fly below 400 feet
  
  
• I will fly within visual line of sight
  
  
• I will be aware of FAA airspace requirements: www.faa.gov/uas/where_to_fly/airspace_restrictions
  
  
• I will not fly directly over people
  
  
• I will not fly over stadiums and sports events
  
  
• I will not fly near emergency response efforts such as fires
  
  
• I will not fly near aircraft, especially near airports
  
  
• I will not fly under the influence

[Note: the link in #3.]

It's all right there.



IMO: It is unlikely that Class B includes or extends below 400' AGL at 5 miles from the center of any airport. Thus the coordination of the 5 mile distance and the 400' altitude requirement for notification.

Therefore, a Hobbyist who is flying more than 5 miles away, below 400' AGL, will never have any problems or be in violation of controlled airspace.

 

[mnewxcv]

@mpshev... There are lots of charts and graphs describing Class-B available by a simple Google search.





You're right Hh, and they don't need to.

(In the US) Registering their drone with the FAA provides them all the info they need.
During the process you agreed to a set of guidelines...

• I will fly below 400 feet
  
  
• I will fly within visual line of sight
  
  
• I will be aware of FAA airspace requirements: www.faa.gov/uas/where_to_fly/airspace_restrictions
  
  
• I will not fly directly over people
  
  
• I will not fly over stadiums and sports events
  
  
• I will not fly near emergency response efforts such as fires
  
  
• I will not fly near aircraft, especially near airports
  
  
• I will not fly under the influence

[Note: the link in #3.]

It's all right there.



IMO: It is unlikely that Class B includes or extends below 400' AGL at 5 miles from the center of any airport.

Therefore, a Hobbyist who is flying more than 5 miles away, below 400' AGL, will never have any problems or be in violation of controlled airspace.

The trouble is this sentence in the link:

"However, recreational operations are not permitted in Class B airspace around most major airports without specific air traffic permission and coordination."

 

[N017RW]

No trouble...

Just find an airport with Class B at the surface, or below 400', more than 5 miles from the center.

IF one exists, in that case there is a potential for violation.

I do not believe such a condition/potential exists.

 

[Timtro]

Also keep in mind that the radius from an airport is designated in Nautical miles. If you are 5 Statute miles from the airport centerpoint you are still inside. Nautical miles = 1.15 Statute miles. As has been said above, just stay away from the Class B zone. More about airspace here: http://www.faa.gov/regulations_policies/handbooks_manuals/aviation/phak/media/17_phak_ch15.pdf . (Compliments of The Drone Professor)

 

[skyeboysteve]

No trouble...

Just find an airport with Class B at the surface, or below 400', more than 5 miles from the center.

IF one exists, in that case there is a potential for violation.

I do not believe such a condition/potential exists.

Actually DFW class B extends far beyond 5nm radius to the ground. In many places it's at least 8nm and some (that includes Love Field) is 18nm--which is also 8nm from Love Field.

I was wondering about hobbyist in this situation too. It seems like 333 waivers (especially) and 107 pilots have more restrictions than hobbyist--other than making cash legally. Yet for the purposes of safety you'd think that people who have no training or airspace knowledge would be the most restricted.


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[N017RW]

Great. Too lazy to look.
So how common is it?

 

[Richard R]

Great. Too lazy to look.
So how common is it?

For almost, if not all Class B airport, the inner ring goes from the surface up to what ever the upper limit is for that airport. For example, the inner ring at Boston goes out 8 nm from the center and extends fro the surface up to 4000 ft.

 

[Roadking]

Airel Drone Services, are you a part Airplane Pilot? Have you flown a plane into Class B? I'm asking because I think there is some confusion going on with this question. No one gets into Class B legally without specific permission and the controller using the words cleared into Class Bravo Airspace. NOW I have a feeling you might be talking about flying under class B airspace in which case would be OK. That's the reason I'm asking if you are a Pilot as if no,t you might not know how to read a sectional and decipher the wedding cake effect of Class Bravo Airspace. I'm not trying to be "smart" or a jerk at all, I'm just wondering. You may be an airline Pilot for all I know, just asking. I'm a Private Pilot with an instrument rating and got my license at Phoenix Sky Harbor in 1987. Since then I'm flown in the Sky Harbor Class B numerous times, and believe me they don't want to see a drone in that airspace. BUT under it is another story. And Yes I know in 1987 it was not even class be. I grew up there and remember it being an ARSA, a TCA etc. Still, since it went class B years ago I've flown in it.

Hi. No I'm not a airplane pilot and I take no offense to your question. If I can learn something that's good.
The point I was making is similar to what Helihover is saying.
Class B at kclt goes from SFC to 10k' and extends 7 nm. A hobbyist is likely to read the rules for recreational flying and think it is fine to be flying 5 miles away. Other than the sentence pointed out in this thread, I see no rule against it, so are they ok or not?
Here is the chart for kclt. The 5 mile mark is just to the left of the box that says Charlotte.

 

[dangerd]

I wanted to do an aerial photo of our office and team for a company event. Our office is within 5 miles of San Antonio airport. My app would not engage rotors. Said in a No Fly Zone.
I think it's a bit extreme for just trying to get a roof high (20') shot. But, I guess it's to protect against those who may want to take it higher in that area.

That would also be commercial use as defined by the FAA.

 

[dangerd]

I think the issue is more that info on class B is a lot harder to find than the 5 mile rule. Most of the map programs designed for UAV pilots (hobby) will point out all the airports, but will not show class B air space.


Then the info should be readily available to hobbyists. If an individual goes to register his UAS for recreational purposes on the FAA website, and it indicates that he must notify within 5 miles, and he is flying 6 miles away (yet in class B airspace), he has no reason to think he is not in the clear.

The information is out there. Use airmap app, or a sectional chart.