Drone rules applied for motorbikes

[Mimoid]

According to the new drone laws being applied for more and more countries (particularly in Europe), I would suggest urgently following them up with similar rules for motorbiking. Why, motorbikes cause more accidents than drones, at least the last time I looked. Please find below my suggestions.

Motorbikes equipped with square-shaped wheels can be driven without restrictions. For round-wheeled motorbikes, the following rules apply:

• max speed, 30 km/h
• max fuel onboard, 3 liters
• rides need to be announced to authorities 30 days in advance
• roads to be used need to be reserved one week in advance and marked with red flags no more than 20 meters apart
• minimum distance from buildings, people or other vehicles, 100 meters
• driver needs to be wearing a luminous id-sign, no smaller than 2.0 x 1.5 meters, both front and back
• motorbike must be equipped with a claxon howling at 140 dB at least half an hour before the intended ride

Oh yeah and two special national additions:

• for Canada: closest proximity to bugs: 90 meters
• for Sweden: driver must be wearing opaque glasses to prevent vision

<soapbox=off>

 

[Waylander]

Inkeeping with the gist of Mimoid's post, I have a rant i'd like to air, specifically VLOS requirements,

What is it that the rule makers imagine a pilot can better acomplish using VLOS at the extreme range of an individuals visual capacity, that could not equally be replicated in FPV.
Example:- at the extreme of range of VLOS a pilot whilst hovering yawed the craft around several times to take photo's or video of a location, the Mythical event ( forseen by the rule makers ) and outside the pilots control and not caused by pilot error occurs.

Will the pilot, who by now may not know which way the UAV is facing be able to take immediate avoiding action, would they have more chance of avoidance whilst flying in FPV.....?, with or without a spotter.

Waylander

 

[Crack The Sky]

Inkeeping with the gist of Mimoid's post, I have a rant i'd like to air, specifically VLOS requirements,

What is it that the rule makers imagine a pilot can better acomplish using VLOS at the extreme range of an individuals visual capacity, that could not equally be replicated in FPV.
Example:- at the extreme of range of VLOS a pilot whilst hovering yawed the craft around several times to take photo's or video of a location, the Mythical event ( forseen by the rule makers ) and outside the pilots control and not caused by pilot error occurs.

Will the pilot, who by now may not know which way the UAV is facing be able to take immediate avoiding action, would they have more chance of avoidance whilst flying in FPV.....?, with or without a spotter.

Waylander

What you can accomplish much better with VLOS is very simple. With FPV you lose all ability to see approaching aircraft except those directly in front of your viewing direction. VLOS allows for complete scanning of the sky constantly, while maintaining visual contact with the drone.

 

[Mimoid]

What you can accomplish much better with VLOS is very simple. With FPV you lose all ability to see approaching aircraft except those directly in front of your viewing direction. VLOS allows for complete scanning of the sky constantly, while maintaining visual contact with the drone.

The time it takes between a plane appearing as a tiny speck in the sky and it passing your drone is no more than 10-20 seconds. It does not give either of you much of a chance to take evasive maneuvers. Possibly a CSC to make the drone drop dead from the sky - damaging whatever is under it.

The best solution is to avoid sharing airspace with planes. Stay well below 1000 feet MSL. Not a biggie really. Would it not be enough with this rule only?

 

[Crack The Sky]

The time it takes between a plane appearing as a tiny speck in the sky and it passing your drone is no more than 10-20 seconds. It does not give either of you much of a chance to take evasive maneuvers. Possibly a CSC to make the drone drop dead from the sky - damaging whatever is under it.

The best solution is to avoid sharing airspace with planes. Stay well below 1000 feet MSL. Not a biggie really. Would it not be enough with this rule only?

You have reinforced the point I just made. The very fact that the time for collision avoidance is quite short, requires the ability to scan the entire sky constantly, thereby increasing the reaction time . This cannot be accomplished with FPV. By the way, it is not a manned aircraft operators primary job to see and avoid your drone. You have the legal obligation to see and avoid ALL other aviation conflicts. You are correct on one point. "The best solution is to avoid sharing airspace with planes." Staying below the max of 400 AGL, (in the USA), should work most of the time in uncontrolled airspace. It is certainly not the "cure all", though. "See and Avoid" has been a backbone of aerial safety since the beginning of flight.

 

[jwmcgrath]

I'm in Canada. I ride. Are you seriously suggesting we are going to be restricting the bugs from coming within 90m of me?

Or do I have to stay 90m away from them?

'Cause one way I'm really happy.

The other, I just lost ANOTHER hobby.

 

[Mimoid]

I'm in Canada. I ride. Are you seriously suggesting we are going to be restricting the bugs from coming within 90m of me?

Or do I have to stay 90m away from them?

'Cause one way I'm really happy.

The other, I just lost ANOTHER hobby.

Lighten up, that was just a joke. The new Canadian drone laws on the other hand are not. And they explicitely state that you cannot fly a drone closer than 90m from animals. A bug is an animal (well it sure isn't a plant).

 

[BigAl07]

The time it takes between a plane appearing as a tiny speck in the sky and it passing your drone is no more than 10-20 seconds. It does not give either of you much of a chance to take evasive maneuvers. Possibly a CSC to make the drone drop dead from the sky - damaging whatever is under it.

I fully disagree with just about everything you've said. Other than high-speed aircraft the majority of MANNED aircraft that are even remotely near our flight altitude are easily seen and avoided. I fly in an area where Air MediVac is almost nonstop and even with them flying low and coming across the hills quickly we See AND Avoid with ease.

If you are in a situation where you can NOT See and AVOID then you need to find another location or employ spotters.

The best solution is to avoid sharing airspace with planes. Stay well below 1000 feet MSL. Not a biggie really. Would it not be enough with this rule only?

I think you meant something different. Ground Level here is 2560'MSL (in my yard) in the valleys and in places is over 5,000MSL. The best safety altitude is to stay below 400'AGL unless near airports and then it should be a LOT less.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[jwmcgrath]

Lighten up, that was just a joke. The new Canadian drone laws on the other hand are not. And they explicitely state that you cannot fly a drone closer than 90m from animals. A bug is an animal (well it sure isn't a plant).

Um... how can you not take what I said as a joke as well?! Restrictions on bugs?!

I was fully enjoying the spirit of your joke…. [emoji6]

 

[Waylander]

On the open Moorland where I fly, you can hear the approach of the Air Ambulance or other light aircraft, long before you can even discern it's approach path, I'm always below 400' anyway, if I hear an approaching aircraft I get down to tree level long before I see it, and I wait until it has gone before I continue with what I'm doing, don't need to see it.....

 

[THA]

On the open Moorland where I fly, you can hear the approach of the Air Ambulance or other light aircraft, long before you can even discern it's approach path, I'm always below 400' anyway, if I hear an approaching aircraft I get down to tree level long before I see it, and I wait until it has gone before I continue with what I'm doing, don't need to see it.....

If you are flying out of operators line of sight (VLOS), operator must rely on video from UAS. Due to angle of view of lens, I would argue that even less than 20 seconds from seeing aircraft if it is even seen at all. Within line of sight, yes you have more time and audio. Really can't compare VLOS and out of sight.

As to the motorcycle rules, in early days of automobiles, some of these rules were actually law. Flagman before and after car, horn sounding and cannot drive within so many feet of an animal (scares horses) Glad they are no longer in force.

 

[Mimoid]

Um... how can you not take what I said as a joke as well?! Restrictions on bugs?!

I was fully enjoying the spirit of your joke…. [emoji6]

Got me there - sorry!

 

[jwmcgrath]

Got me there - sorry!

[emoji16]

I'm actually so worked up about the new CDN drone restrictions that I was excited to see we were at least going to start restricting bugs from hitting me on rides!

Now THAT would be valuable legislation!

But it does have me thinking now... are we supposed to stay 90m away from people, or can we tell people to stay 90m away from US?!!

 

[Mimoid]

I fully disagree with just about everything you've said. Other than high-speed aircraft the majority of MANNED aircraft that are even remotely near our flight altitude are easily seen and avoided. I fly in an area where Air MediVac is almost nonstop and even with them flying low and coming across the hills quickly we See AND Avoid with ease.

If you are in a situation where you can NOT See and AVOID then you need to find another location or employ spotters.

I think you meant something different. Ground Level here is 2560'MSL (in my yard) in the valleys and in places is over 5,000MSL. The best safety altitude is to stay below 400'AGL unless near airports and then it should be a LOT less.
.

Just outside where I live, is a narrow corridor of uncontrolled G-airspace squeezed in between two control zones and a TMA above. Once or twice every hour a small SPE aircraft is passing this corridor when they for some reason are not let into the controlled airspace (or don't want to talk to the controllers). Usually they fly quite low, like 900 feet above the ground. Once in a while I take a short flight with my Phantom here, although I make sure to climb no higher than treetop level (150-200 feet), where there are no planes (if there were, they would certainly have bigger issues than my drone).

Now, flying using my eyes only stops being realistic when I am more than than 30-40 meters away. Once I get beyond my backyard, my drone is just a speck in the sky. Even though I technically can see it, it would be too dangerous to fly it by eyesight only. I cannot even tell if it is 200 or 400 meters away from me. I cannot see which direction it is turned and what it is doing. I must rely on the video downlink and telemetry to be safe.

If a low flying plane, paraglider or helicopter would suddenly appear, I would have no way of telling if it is going to hit my drone or pass me with hundreds of meters to spare. Now I fully agree with you that the camera's image will not help me either. Actually less. The only way to be safe is to make sure never to reside in airspace that is likely to be used by planes. I would probably descend as fast as I could and get out of the airspace. But to take evasive actions - there is no way I would be able to do that. I might as well end up flying closer to the plane than away from it.

So again - I stay away from the area where I might end up needing to take such decisions

 

[Waylander]

Just outside where I live, is a narrow corridor of uncontrolled G-airspace squeezed in between two control zones and a TMA above. Once or twice every hour a small SPE aircraft is passing this corridor when they for some reason are not let into the controlled airspace (or don't want to talk to the controllers). Usually they fly quite low, like 900 feet above the ground. Once in a while I take a short flight with my Phantom here, although I make sure to climb no higher than treetop level (150-200 feet), where there are no planes (if there were, they would certainly have bigger issues than my drone).

Now, flying using my eyes only stops being realistic when I am more than than 30-40 meters away. Once I get beyond my backyard, my drone is just a speck in the sky. Even though I technically can see it, it would be too dangerous to fly it by eyesight only. I cannot even tell if it is 200 or 400 meters away from me. I cannot see which direction it is turned and what it is doing. I must rely on the video downlink and telemetry to be safe.

If a low flying plane, paraglider or helicopter would suddenly appear, I would have no way of telling if it is going to hit my drone or pass me with hundreds of meters to spare. Now I fully agree with you that the camera's image will not help me either. Actually less. The only way to be safe is to make sure never to reside in airspace that is likely to be used by planes. I would probably descend as fast as I could and get out of the airspace. But to take evasive actions - there is no way I would be able to do that. I might as well end up flying closer to the plane than away from it.

So again - I stay away from the area where I might end up needing to take such decisions

Agreed... like remaining under 400' feet should do it, unless of course the low flying plane, paraglider or helicopter, is disregarding their obligations and flying below the LSALT for the area.

 

[Helihover]

Just outside where I live, is a narrow corridor of uncontrolled G-airspace squeezed in between two control zones and a TMA above. Once or twice every hour a small SPE aircraft is passing this corridor when they for some reason are not let into the controlled airspace (or don't want to talk to the controllers). Usually they fly quite low, like 900 feet above the ground. Once in a while I take a short flight with my Phantom here, although I make sure to climb no higher than treetop level (150-200 feet), where there are no planes (if there were, they would certainly have bigger issues than my drone).

Now, flying using my eyes only stops being realistic when I am more than than 30-40 meters away. Once I get beyond my backyard, my drone is just a speck in the sky. Even though I technically can see it, it would be too dangerous to fly it by eyesight only. I cannot even tell if it is 200 or 400 meters away from me. I cannot see which direction it is turned and what it is doing. I must rely on the video downlink and telemetry to be safe.

If a low flying plane, paraglider or helicopter would suddenly appear, I would have no way of telling if it is going to hit my drone or pass me with hundreds of meters to spare. Now I fully agree with you that the camera's image will not help me either. Actually less. The only way to be safe is to make sure never to reside in airspace that is likely to be used by planes. I would probably descend as fast as I could and get out of the airspace. But to take evasive actions - there is no way I would be able to do that. I might as well end up flying closer to the plane than away from it.

So again - I stay away from the area where I might end up needing to take such decisions

Your comparing two totally different occasions. Yes, its a bit hard to "navigate" at distance and we sometimes need to rely on our screen or gps location for orientation. "See and avoid" really has nothing to do with the way you navigate your UAV. Your comparing navigating to seeing and avoiding, two different things. As stated, its way easier to see and avoid via VLOS rather than on a device screen with a 480p res.

 

[Helihover]

Agreed... like remaining under 400' feet should do it, unless of course the low flying plane, paraglider or helicopter, is disregarding their obligations and flying below the LSALT for the area.

These pilots in a lot of cases have no obligations, especially helis.