Drone Operator Stupidity

[ArmyVet]

The idiots have ruined several hobbies and pastimes for me.
All the extraneous information is nice. But here is the important point. IMHO.

If we do not begin to police this hobby ourselves the governments will. And we know how that works out. We lose!

Someone always knows who the idiots are. Report them, it is that simple. Or you will be limited to flying in your living room.

Have fun banking and yanking......for now.

 

[Uncle Stumpy]

Last Friday, Jan 4th 2019 a Luke AFB F-16 or F-35, not sure which, pilot was on approach to the base when he observed a white drone flying at 500 feet. You know the drone had to be close for a fighter pilot to see and describe it. Throw in the Heathrow incident and some others here in the states and the age of our ability to fly a drone for pleasure is slowly coming to an end. I just don't understand you people who feel they can fly anywhere and any time they want, the flight "recommendations" be ( Mod Removed ). Your arrogance and stupidity is hurting every drone pilot and will soon kill someone or many people. But I guess thats OK because you don't give a crap about anyone else, just yourself. Grow up people, you know who you are and its not the responsible drone pilots.

Well said Pat.

 

[P3P]

Unless anybody can provide any evidence of a drone at Gatwick, it is counter-productive mentioning.
However the incident described above seems is worth bringing up and give criticism to dangerous behaviour.
Flying near planes IS a real danger and must be treated appropriately. People's lives are at risk.

 

[GeneM]

I agree with MPG- we should put guns on our drones. (Granted, I just skimmed his post and didn’t completely read it.)

Welcome to the forums MPG.

You can’t legislate stupid, but unfortunately, reactive legislation often trends in the stupid direction. I almost miss the days- 10 years ago- when having a drone meant hours troubleshooting wiring that was seemingly correct but would not start the motors. When you had to set a 10 minute timer before a flight, to remind you to land before a rapid unplanned disassembly. When you actually needed to practice your flying skills for days before ever getting the aircraft more than a few feet off the ground. You never hear of issues of bad behavior from fixed wing model aircraft pilots, because you actually have to know how to fly them. There is no easy button for other model aircraft. Technology has lowered the bar of entry into drone piloting, and therefore, allowed access to those that would abuse the privledge.

I believe technology will ultimately save us though. Anonymity is what allows this bad behavior- much like the feedback you can find on almost any internet forum. Eventually, programs like LAANC will evolve and drones will be manufactured with transponders, to be instantly recognized when they enter the national airspace. If I jumped into a Cessna and flew around an airport filming planes, you can bet someone would be waiting to talk to me when I landed. Once bad behavior can be identified as it happens, and traced to the source, there will continue to be those that rebel.

Until that time, I’ll fly my gun drone and continue my work on my clip carrying reload drone. (Don’t worry- I’ll fly them less than 400ft AGL)

Safe flying.

 

[Raptorman0909]

Unless the drone was REAL close and more or less directly in front of the USAF pilot I find it hard to believe the pilot could identify a drone -- see something in the air yes, but identify it ... not so much. A year or so ago here in my home state of Utah there was a wildfire in the southern part of the state that was being fought with aircraft and helo's, but at some point a drone was spotted and aerial operations had to be halted. Over the next couple days there was repeated sightings of the drone but no one was ever caught. Does this sound like Gatwick?

While I don't know for sure my guess as to what was seen was a large bird, perhaps a hawk or vulture and from a distance it's not hard to imagine folks, on the lookout for drones, seeing drones when in fact is was a bird. This same story has been repeated at numerous wildfires and while I'm the first person to jump on our own for stupid actions I have to say its beginning to look more and more like a significant percentage of these sightings are people seeing what they expect to see and not what is actually there. You can't ground birds don't ya know...


Brian

 

[BanditsRoost]

Pat being a AFB was it a soldier or someone else in the area?I know those bases are miles in size so could it only of been a soldier and there is no way of finding him or her out?

Soldiers are mostly found on Army bases.....Airmen are found on AFB's......They get right testy when you co fuse them. Marines get violent.
;-)

 

[SWishard]

I don't know that it will eventually be impossible to fly drones for pleasure, but I do see future regulations that will make getting into the air more challenging. When you consider that manned pleasure flight has coexisted in varying degrees with commercial flights since the beginning, I would expect a similar progression with drone flights. My thoughts are:

(1) A license will be required for anyone flying a drone in the National Airspace System, be it for pleasure or business.
(2) ADS-B will eventually be required on drones.
(3) A clearance of some type will be required before beginning any flight. I believe this will be through a system such as LAANC.
(4) ATC will have a way to down drones that are a problem, probably through a RTH and Land function trigger.
(5) ATC will have a way to lock out all or specific drone activity anywhere before it leaves the ground.
(6) Fines will become substantial and enforcement efforts (there are basically none now) will be stepped up.

When you consider what it takes to my manned aircraft, which isn't that difficult to learn, applying the lessons learned and the procedures to drone flight is likely. Manned pilots from Student to ATP take great pride in flying properly and within the boundaries of the laws and regulations. of course there a few bad apples, but they tend not to last long. When that same pride and duty is instilled in drone operations there will be few problems.

Just my 2 cents worth.

 

[ArmyVet]

Unless the drone was REAL close and more or less directly in front of the USAF pilot I find it hard to believe the pilot could identify a drone -- see something in the air yes, but identify it ... not so much. A year or so ago here in my home state of Utah there was a wildfire in the southern part of the state that was being fought with aircraft and helo's, but at some point a drone was spotted and aerial operations had to be halted. Over the next couple days there was repeated sightings of the drone but no one was ever caught. Does this sound like Gatwick?

While I don't know for sure my guess as to what was seen was a large bird, perhaps a hawk or vulture and from a distance it's not hard to imagine folks, on the lookout for drones, seeing drones when in fact is was a bird. This same story has been repeated at numerous wildfires and while I'm the first person to jump on our own for stupid actions I have to say its beginning to look more and more like a significant percentage of these sightings are people seeing what they expect to see and not what is actually there. You can't ground birds don't ya know...


Brian

Maybe he was one of the exceptional pilots.

Chuck Yeager talks about the 3.02 dots. | Forums

 

[Raptorman0909]

Maybe he was one of the exceptional pilots.

Chuck Yeager talks about the 3.02 dots. | Forums

Yeah, I remember the stories about Yeager and his phenomenal eyesight, however the point I was making was not that the pilot couldn't see it but that is was unlikely he could properly identify it. If you're a pilot in WWII and you see a moving dot in the sky from 80km away is it likely to be a bird or insect -- no, it pretty much has to be a plane and if you know it isn't one of yours then it has to be one of there's. Putting aside the validity of Chuck's claim it is fundamentally a different question.

The firefighters I mentioned in my prior no doubt saw something, but beyond a quarter mile or at most half a mile you could not clearly identify it beyond the fact that something small was there and moving -- even with a young Yeager's eyesight. You may think the motion would betray what it is and to someone that's properly trained it's possible that they could discern with better than 50:50 odds that it's a drone or not, but for most observers that is unlikely to be true. I'd argue that if ten people observe something and one has the proper skills the other nine will overrule on numbers and even if the expert is given added weight the decision to stop air operations would still be there out of an abundance of caution.

The real problem as I see it is not a new one and we've known of it for a long time -- if you are on the lookout for something in particular and you see something you are more likely to assume what you see is what you were looking for. This bias is so common that eye-witness testimony is often considered the least accurate. UFO types live this fallacy -- as do many others...


Brian

 

[Deleted member 29014]

Last Friday, Jan 4th 2019 a Luke AFB F-16 or F-35, not sure which, pilot was on approach to the base when he observed a white drone flying at 500 feet. You know the drone had to be close for a fighter pilot to see and describe it. Throw in the Heathrow incident and some others here in the states and the age of our ability to fly a drone for pleasure is slowly coming to an end. I just don't understand you people who feel they can fly anywhere and any time they want, the flight "recommendations" be ( Mod Removed ). Your arrogance and stupidity is hurting every drone pilot and will soon kill someone or many people. But I guess thats OK because you don't give a crap about anyone else, just yourself. Grow up people, you know who you are and its not the responsible drone pilots.

F-16's landing speed is 141 knots, and 135 knots for the F-35C. Guessing on final they are at 200 knots+. And... whiz, bang they knew it was a drone and not a bird, a kid balloon or a plastic bag?

Not to take away from your point; too many wackos flying drones.

 

[THECaptainKirk]

This “incident” did not happen. Why even keep the thread open? I’ve seen more productive conversations than this stopped because it rubbed one of the moderators the wrong way. I’m sick of our hobby and for some, our livelihood get trashed day after day after day by nothing but lies and negative propaganda clearly designed to get rid of the vast majority of US. Someone / something is behind this bs. Call it conspiratorial, but the key to all of this is public perception and once that is CEMENTED (whether it’s based on truth or not) then those who can make the decisions we all fear will make them in the direction that benefits those who want US out of the skies. At CES here recently, there was a few new underwater drones being shown. I told a friend of mine that it’s too bad I don’t live anywhere near any interesting bodies of water - otherwise I’d get one because the FAA (or your country’s equivelant) isn’t YET taking charge of what travels where and when and how and for what reasons underwater. If the media and general public had been this moronic and as ridiculously safety conscious as people claim they are today - if they were like that 120 years ago we would never have modern air travel to the scope we do today. Life is risky. Accidents happen. It is impossible to guarantee anyone’s safety at any time, anywhere - yet there is a constant clamoring for it from some magical force or government legislated power that claims to be able to deliver it. And people continually fall for this crap and allow our freedoms to be hacked away. It won’t stop until we, the people have had enough of this. I’m not against rules or regulations that are common sensical, but we went WAY beyond that and we all sit and wait for the next 3,000 page bill full of laws, rules and regulations, registrations, fees, penalties, etc. for us to translate and argue over in this forum. Remember the good old days when we’d actually get on here to help each other be better photographers, be better pilots, teach each other how to fix issues we might be having and share with each other our great successes and fun times we were having? Now, we’re all so scared about when, where and how to fly it has me constantly contemplating selling my P3A and my P4A. But, then I think if I do that I’m giving in and letting THEM win. I just wish I knew exactly who THEY are so I could go beat the you know what out of them. They’re picking on the wrong people, in my opinion. Drones are here to stay, that’s for certain. What is yet to be decided is who gets to use them and for what purposes, when, how, why, etc. Those conversations don’t include any of us, to my knowledge. It’s just really sad, to me.

 

[David Cooke]

F-16's landing speed is 141 knots, and 135 knots for the F-35C. Guessing on final they are at 200 knots+. And... whiz, bang they knew it was a drone and not a bird, a kid balloon or a plastic bag?

Not to take away from your point; too many wackos flying drones.

View attachment 107377

Your suggestion, that just because you are going 200 Kts on final that you can’t see/recognize anything, is uninformed... from experience I can tell you a pigeon looks different from a starling or a hawk at 200kts. At 200 kts low level, these objects stand out because they look like a stationary object slowly moving against a more uniform background of sky or ground and thanks to our savannah ancestors our peripheral vision picks up that kind of movement easily and overrides your focus such that it grabs your attention instantly. . . and yes it is kind of a :"whizz bang" thing when it happens.

Let’s focus on the idiots not the professionals.

 

[Wildwest]

Thanks Pats. You speak for all of us.

 

[HampsterFly80]

As I always say for any industry Follow The Money!

If there is money to made in regulation then you can bet your bottom dollar the government will be all aboard. It's nothing to do with safety....

 

[Deleted member 29014]

Your suggestion, that just because you are going 200 Kts on final that you can’t see/recognize anything, is uninformed... from experience I can tell you a pigeon looks different from a starling or a hawk at 200kts. At 200 kts low level, these objects stand out because they look like a stationary object slowly moving against a more uniform background of sky or ground and thanks to our savannah ancestors our peripheral vision picks up that kind of movement easily and overrides your focus such that it grabs your attention instantly. . . and yes it is kind of a :"whizz bang" thing when it happens.

Let’s focus on the idiots not the professionals.

Not a "suggestion", been there, done that. First, I am an aviator, second, was the pilot looking at an object against the sky and not the ground? We don't know, third, I also talk from experience. No way that pilot could identify a Phantom or Mavic or similar size drone from a plastic bag.

 

[flockshot]

I really do enjoy flying my drones. I do my best to follow the rules and go out of my way to avoid troubling other people.
I realize that there are many members here that consider my methods to be an infringement on their right to do whatever the feel like.
In the end, I expect we may both loose out.

 

[ArmyVet]

I see no agendas here................


“Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.”

 

[Offroader]

I was at CES last Wednesday and stopped by the DJI booth. I asked, in jest, if there was going to be a P5. He looked at me and said "I work here and I haven't heard of anything about a Phantom 5." He was trying to push the Mavic, of course. I stated that the Phantom is bigger and easier to see at a distance. His response was "Oh, you like to see your drone!?" My response was "Well duh."

Mind you, this was coming from a DJI employee. How can we expect drone pilots that are either uninformed of the law or simply disregard the law altogether to help us when equipment manufacturers have the same attitude?

 

[THA]

Keep in mind that there is a well know phenomenon called "premature closure" which simply is if your mind is thinking something, what you see is most likely interpreded as what you are thinking. Example is a hunter deer hunting is thinking DEER and sees another hunter or even a cow, his mind sees a deer. :This is how many hunting accidents happen. Now a pilot fearing a drone and thinking drone sees a plastic bag or bird, his mind will see a drone.
this happens.

 

[Deleted member 29014]

DEER!!!!