drone above Statue of Liberty permission

[Raptorman0909]

How ISIS is turning commercial drones into weapons in the battle for Mosul

No, ISIS isn't the issue -- it's not caring about the consequences of doing things that could get our right to fly drones taken away. Part of that is flying where you shouldn't and part is playing dumb on the ability of even small drones to carry dangerous payloads. Drones are not permitted anywhere near a major sporting event and you do not have to be a rocket scientist to know why. A Phantom class drone dropping a grenade sized bomb on a stadium filled with people could kill dozens -- that spell it out for ya?


Brian

 

[John Locke]

If anyone wants to be legal eagle when flying Liberty island, just take your boat out there about 500' from the island on the south side and launch your drone, stay on the south half, and don't fly directly over the island. IMO I can be just as safe launching from 4000' away, but that's me. If you don't have the confidence to be safe, don't do it. I can see any manned helicopters or planes just fine from that distance. Evasive maneuvers are pretty easy, if needed. Just descend to 100' AGL until any craft in the area leave. They rarely stay in the area very long, and it's easy to judge their elevation, since Liberty Lady is about 300' high. But early morning you won't see many craft in the area, if any. Those start up around 8:30 or 9.

 

[RonHarper]

You could get the Coptersafe NFZ mod which removes all NFZs.

 

[GadgetGuy]

No, ISIS isn't the issue -- it's not caring about the consequences of doing things that could get our right to fly drones taken away. Part of that is flying where you shouldn't and part is playing dumb on the ability of even small drones to carry dangerous payloads. Drones are not permitted anywhere near a major sporting event and you do not have to be a rocket scientist to know why. A Phantom class drone dropping a grenade sized bomb on a stadium filled with people could kill dozens -- that spell it out for ya?


Brian

Uhm, we are in agreement. No need to be so argumentative.
I supplied the link to demonstrate the capability of off-the-shelf drones for nefarious purposes. On the other hand, they are also being used by the good guys to spot enemy snipers. It's not the gun. It's the gun owner that determines its use for good or evil. Permitted or not, those who are up to no good won't care, and won't follow any rules, and will simply use NFZ hacks to get around any manufacturer imposed limits. You can't legislate terrorism away!

 

[ClubbyPilot]

Do you fellas not think that some authority might look at this forum and take note of your 'hidden' launch sites?
great pic though of the lady.
Beats me how a pilot of a plane or chopper can see Phantom birds at great distances, I can't and I too am a real pilot, or was , unless idiot UAV guys get too bludy close.

Try dodging eagles when cattle mustering.

 

[kwalter]

Do you fellas not think that some authority might look at this forum and take note of your 'hidden' launch sites?
great pic though of the lady.
Beats me how a pilot of a plane or chopper can see Phantom birds at great distances, I can't and I too am a real pilot, or was , unless idiot UAV guys get too bludy close.

Try dodging eagles when cattle mustering.

I believe a guy in the UK was caught that way. He had some amazing footage of Westminster Cathedral and the Houses of Parliament up on YouTube. AFAIK he's now banned from flying or owning a drone. I have no idea what it cost him in fines

 

[Sfgiants24]

Flying around the Statue of Liberty without permission? Are you guys insane?!?!?
This hobby is over.

 

[GadgetGuy]

Flying around the Statue of Liberty without permission? Are you guys insane?!?!?
This hobby is over.

That ship has already sailed...
DJI is locking these things down tighter than a drum!

 

[andy_k]

That ship has already sailed...
DJI is locking these things down tighter than a drum!

It's hardly surprising is it? I wonder how long it is until we are range limited according location? VLOS = 500m?

 

[GadgetGuy]

It's hardly surprising is it? I wonder how long it is until we are range limited according location? VLOS = 500m?

After having unleashed into the wild, and sold them to us, DJI wants all their drones back, and is putting ankle bracelets on them, and confining them to house arrest!

 

[andy_k]

my guess is that DJI underestimated the stupidity of (some of) the people they sold them to and have realised that if they don't do something pretty quickly there will be so much legislation pushed through to restrict their use that their billion pound market will disappear right in front of their eyes.

 

[GadgetGuy]

my guess is that DJI underestimated the stupidity of (some of) the people they sold them to and have realised that if they don't do something pretty quickly there will be so much legislation pushed through to restrict their use that their billion pound market will disappear right in front of their eyes.

More like DJI overhyped the range to sell them, to distinguish them from the competition, and now wants to cripple them back to VLOS, after they sold them based upon the range.

 

[andy_k]

More like DJI overhyped the range to sell them, to distinguish them from the competition, and now wants to cripple them back to VLOS, after they sold them based upon the range.

they used the range as a selling point much like car manufacturers quote maximum speeds - My AMG Merc came out of the factory limited to 155mph - the speed limit in the UK is 70mph, that doesn't mean I had to drive everywhere at 155mph, equally, Just because my P4P can fly 3 miles doesn't mean I have to fly that far

 

[SRJ_Phantom_4_Pro]

Last I checked this ain't Syria and nobody's dropping bombs,
One from when I was in the area last weekend
Lady of the Harbor... by LickitySplit11111 - Photo 216445635 / 500px

Lickity... did you take the picture that is next after the lady of liberty? Yum!

 

[GadgetGuy]

they used the range as a selling point much like car manufacturers quote maximum speeds - My AMG Merc came out of the factory limited to 155mph - the speed limit in the UK is 70mph, that doesn't mean I had to drive everywhere at 155mph, equally, Just because my P4P can fly 3 miles doesn't mean I have to fly that far

True dat. However, when Mercedes cripples your 155mph speed limit in a firmware update, to 70mph to keep you from ever using that capability, you'll be able relate!

 

[andy_k]

The laws of the land do that already and like most people I value my licence. So whilst I owned it, I didn't go around driving everywhere at max speed.

But, as you mention it, the system to control a vehicle's speed according to it's location already exists (ISA) and was under consideration in Europe (probably still is) where some countries believe it could be a major factor in reducing road deaths. My guess is it will not get implemented because governments make loads of money from speeding fines

I can already relate (I've been flying models since 1990) to any restrictions but if they are what is needed to keep the hobby out of even more poorly thought out legislation and keep us all in the air legally and safely then it's a price I'm willing to pay

 

[GadgetGuy]

The laws of the land do that already and like most people I value my licence. So whilst I owned it, I didn't go around driving everywhere at max speed.

But, as you mention it, the system to control a vehicle's speed according to it's location already exists (ISA) and was under consideration in Europe (probably still is) where some countries believe it could be a major factor in reducing road deaths. My guess is it will not get implemented because governments make loads of money from speeding fines

I can already relate (I've been flying models since 1990) to any restrictions but if they are what is needed to keep the hobby out of even more poorly thought out legislation and keep us all in the air legally and safely then it's a price I'm willing to pay

The difference with a law is that you may not, vs. a firmware crippling which means you cannot! You paid for the ability, even if you never choose to use it. Crippling existing, already purchased aircraft without a legislative mandate is theft, IMHO. Not willing to pay that price, when I already paid for those features. You can't brick my drone, and then tell me you are doing it for the good of the hobby, and my own good, because I can't be trusted!

 

[andy_k]

I get your point but the problem is that if enough people abuse something then we get laws made which affect everybody.

Let's go back to the car analogies....

In this country, when the first motorways opened there were no speed limits, you literally drove as fast as you wanted to or the car would go. It worked for a while until some of the motor manufacturers started using the motorways for speed tests - seeing just how fast they could get their cars to go. After that came a blanket speed limit which meant the minority had 'spoiled it' for the majority. Yes, our cars will do more than 70mph but enforcement is so strict (cameras, patrols etc) that nobody does.

Drink driving - I'm old enough to remember when the drink driving laws came in - I was only young but can remember the way 'sensible drivers' thought they were being mistreated because of a small minority of irresponsible (drunk) drivers - now nearly every country has laws banning drink driving.

Seat Belts - I remember when you didn't have to wear one, it was freedom of choice to do what you like in your car - in the UK, they are mandatory - it's my car, why can't I do what i like when i'm driving it? Becvause the laws says that i have to wear one for my own safety

We all abide by these 'draconian' restrictions because they are part of the 'terms and conditions' we agree to when we get a driving licence. There are hundreds (even thousands) of laws we happily abide by every single day of our lives so why the big 'I'm free to fly where i like even if it places other people's live's in jeopardy' stand?

For years, model aircraft flyers have followed the rules/laws/guidelines because (for the most part) they were smart enough to realise that if they didn't more legislation would follow and the flying club culture has always passed down knowledge and 'taught' the next generation . It's worked and we've all got along well right up to the point where the current uptake of drone flyers see no reason to abide by the law. Most of them don't give a stuff because it's a passing trend - they won't still be flying drones in 2 years, never mind 20 years so they don't care if the hobby gets broken, they'll just move onto the next fad.

DJI seem to be taking 'law enforcement' into their own hands because they have a business to preserve and it's safe to assume that they are in constant touch with law makers at almost every level - they will no doubt be jumping through all sorts of hoops to ensure that their product stays on the shelves of retail outlets and doesn't get confined to a niche where licencing and training become compulsory before purchase.

 

[GadgetGuy]

I get your point but the problem is that if enough people abuse something then we get laws made which affect everybody.

Let's go back to the car analogies....

In this country, when the first motorways opened there were no speed limits, you literally drove as fast as you wanted to or the car would go. It worked for a while until some of the motor manufacturers started using the motorways for speed tests - seeing just how fast they could get their cars to go. After that came a blanket speed limit which meant the minority had 'spoiled it' for the majority. Yes, our cars will do more than 70mph but enforcement is so strict (cameras, patrols etc) that nobody does.

Drink driving - I'm old enough to remember when the drink driving laws came in - I was only young but can remember the way 'sensible drivers' thought they were being mistreated because of a small minority of irresponsible (drunk) drivers - now nearly every country has laws banning drink driving.

Seat Belts - I remember when you didn't have to wear one, it was freedom of choice to do what you like in your car - in the UK, they are mandatory - it's my car, why can't I do what i like when i'm driving it? Becvause the laws says that i have to wear one for my own safety

We all abide by these 'draconian' restrictions because they are part of the 'terms and conditions' we agree to when we get a driving licence. There are hundreds (even thousands) of laws we happily abide by every single day of our lives so why the big 'I'm free to fly where i like even if it places other people's live's in jeopardy' stand?

For years, model aircraft flyers have followed the rules/laws/guidelines because (for the most part) they were smart enough to realise that if they didn't more legislation would follow and the flying club culture has always passed down knowledge and 'taught' the next generation . It's worked and we've all got along well right up to the point where the current uptake of drone flyers see no reason to abide by the law. Most of them don't give a stuff because it's a passing trend - they won't still be flying drones in 2 years, never mind 20 years so they don't care if the hobby gets broken, they'll just move onto the next fad.

DJI seem to be taking 'law enforcement' into their own hands because they have a business to preserve and it's safe to assume that they are in constant touch with law makers at almost every level - they will no doubt be jumping through all sorts of hoops to ensure that their product stays on the shelves of retail outlets and doesn't get confined to a niche where licencing and training become compulsory before purchase.

You can't legislate stupidity. Stupid is as stupid does. They can't read anyway, and they certainly won't research the legality of their stupidity beforehand. It's in their nature to be ignorant, too.
Each one of your examples still give the operator the choice to follow the law or rules or not. Therein lies the difference. Once I accept liability, it's none of DJI's business what I do with a drone I purchased from them! While I understand DJI's capitalistic interest in preserving their ability sell drones to the masses with a Beginner Mode, I don't have to like their crippling and bricking a drone I bought from them with a different feature set that allowed Advanced Modes where Smart RTH and GEO could be turned OFF, after accepting liability. DJI is essentially only selling a limited license to use their drones, subject to any and all changes they see fit! You no longer own it, even though you did when you first bought it!

 

[andy_k]

DJI is essentially only selling a limited license to use their drones, subject to any and all changes they see fit! You no longer own it!

you did read the EULA before you clicked 'I accept' didn't you?

DJI have a responsibility and are (in the case of an accident) are probably worried that they will be held accountable in law - not because they allowed the circumstances to happen, not because it was the end user at fault (you can guarantee they will deny any wrongdoing) but because DJI could have prevented the accident happening by adding restrictions - we live in litigious times and everyone seems to want to sue no matter how trivial the reason

Manufacturers are increasingly being held responsible for how their products are used and more and more governments are calling for further controls.

Again, back to cars. You buy a car but can't turn off the electronics, you can't fully disable stability control, traction control or ABS - do you demand a refund? Nope, you accept that for the most part the manufacturer is protecting their own skin as well as yours and just get on with it