DJI Is Locking Down Its Drones Against a Growing Army of DIY Hackers

[LuvMyTJ]

DJI has been taking steps to foil hackers...

"Drone hackers have forced DJI into an arms race.
The tension between drone pilots who want complete control over their aircraft that they bought and DJI, the world's biggest consumer grade drone maker, has come to a head. An arms race between hackers and the company is earnestly underway."


Read more here at the source - DJI Is Locking Down Its Drones Against a Growing Army of DIY Hackers

 

[larrym]

Who are they to tell me what to do with my drone? They hold no responsibility for my actions. If someone buys a gun to kill him/herself, is the gun manufacturer liable? Of course not. That has been tested in court. Sounds like someone with a God complex. This is ridiculous. Just one more thing that makes me wish I had not bought a DJI product.

 

[N017RW]

This is an area of Law best argued by the professionals.
Pleases cite the specific case-law precedents and explain how they apply to Chinese radio controlled toys capable of autonomous operation.

 

[dirkclod]

I'm not taking sides with DJI or the hackers But did you read the TOS when you first logged on with your drone . Heck did ya read the guidelines and TOS here when you joined..most don't .
See I see both sides and I also see what can happen . Some will take advantage of being able to take off in a NFZ and fly 2 miles up going
90 . I don't want to hear the car theory or gun that's not whats going on here .
And if you don't mind larry don't bring God into this .
I am a gun toting God-fearing redneck from MS and have been reading
heavily on all this for several weeks now so I don't blame DJI for all this .
And that's all I have to say .
Well 1 more thing, sorry N01 you posted as I was typing .

 

[captainmilehigh]

Interesting read @LuvMyTJ. Thanks for posting the link to the 'Motherboard' article. It covers the subject well. I see where DJI is coming from in a different perspective that is way more than me flying around the back 40 for fun.

Hopefully the Forum will keep us updated on developments like this, so we can all enjoy our hobby as it was meant to be. Thanks again TJ and @dirkclod. [emoji106]

 

[Neon Euc]

Sorry but I think the hacking is a great thing. As long as its used in a sensible way then I see no harm. I'm part of that group and enjoy seeing these mods. I understand why its restricted but wouldn't you be pissed If you bought a car and the manufacture limited it on speed and say you can't mod it out?

I'm all for this and even tho I am part of the group, I personally don't mod my drone as I'm happy as it is using it

 

[Trisnpod]

I don't mind the hacking as long as it's only used by people who need the no fly zones, altitude limits etc removed for professional work as these people are less likely do stupid things that are going to cause more regulation or bans.
But the problem is, distributing the mods online for free means that anyone can use them whatever they plan to do. The phantoms are probably the most well known drones and a large proportion of their owners I would imagine are consumers who may not know much about the law and the consequences of dangerous flying. For these people the limits are necessary to stop them breaking the law, doing stupid things and getting the hobby banned. If they all get their hands on mods that take away these limits obviously there are going to be problems.

So in a way, DJI are protecting the hobby with the limits that advanced users find annoying. If there wasn't the problem of irresponsible people using the mods, there wouldn't be a problem.

 

[Neon Euc]

Totally agree with what you say. In our group we personally ban anyone who boasts or films about doing anything that will put our hobby into a lockdown such as flying near airports, near government buildings, etc... I know some will but they will be the same people who will break the rules under the 500m height anyway by flying near the places I mentioned

 

[Mordor]

I use mod shield on app, to protect me from DJI updates...so i still use version 2.7.2...
Another thing i would love to do is re-install any fw i want.

I simple hate DJI to not allow me chooose the best fw to my drone..

Go hackers!!

 

[captainmilehigh]

Well, the mods might flame me for this, but I see DJI now as a controlling corporation in our hobby. It started off simple enough, with us abiding by a few guidelines like VLOS and altitude limits, along with the usual safety guidelines like not flying around people, airports, etc. Now with every firmware update, there are imbedded restrictions that are passed down to the public.....whether we like it or not. I'm beginning to think that the DJI updates are more malware than firmware.......but that is just my opinion.

As @Trisnpod stated above, it all comes down to being responsible for our own actions. If we cross the line, we risk the fact that more restrictions will be mandated, which will lead to more hacking to bypass the restrictions. Not good.

As for now, I'll stay with my very old firmware and app versions......and block any automatic updates. I'll fly legally and be happy to do so. My only wish is that those that choose to bend the rules a bit, do it with common sense, safety, and responsibility.

 

[Jiggly-Wiggly]

DJI has become exactly the same as all the other "Big Brother" tech companies like Apple and Google. Once they have your money and you use their product, they think it's perfectly fine to trample all over your individual rights and impose any restrictions they wish. Steve Jobs used to wet his undies thinking of new ways of locking down Apple products so that hackers could not tinker with them or jailbreak them to get cool new features. If you dont like it, then they are OK with you using another product. They'd rather lose business than lose control over their obedient little "sheep" --- which is us, suckers that we are

It's also scary reading how DJI is stealthily downloading all our flight logs to their servers. I know they call this "security measures" but it sure smells like anti-Constitutional communist surveillance to me!

 

[anotherlab]

DJI has become exactly the same as all the other "Big Brother" tech companies like Apple and Google. Once they have your money and you use their product, they think it's perfectly fine to trample all over your individual rights and impose any restrictions they wish. Steve Jobs used to wet his undies thinking of new ways of locking down Apple products so that hackers could not tinker with them or jailbreak them to get cool new features. If you dont like it, then they are OK with you using another product. They'd rather lose business than lose control over their obedient little "sheep" --- which is us, suckers that we are

You really can't compare what DJI is doing with what Apple does with iOS. Apple has had iOS locked down from day one. This was done for a few reasons. It prevented the pirating of software, making it more likely for developers to commit resources to writing and improving apps. Second, it ensured the stability of the platform. if your app behaved badly or did it something it wasn't supposed to do, then that app was not allowed in the iOS App store. In the 10 years of iOS, it has been a very secure platform for the users. I prefer to take my chances with the Wild West of Android, but I understand what Apple is doing any why they do it. They didn't take your money and impose restrictions, it's been a walled garden since day one.

What restrictions has Google added to a product that you own that would indicate your rights are being violated? As a mobile app developer, I have an interest in this.

It's also scary reading how DJI is stealthily downloading all our flight logs to their servers. I know they call this "security measures" but it sure smells like anti-Constitutional communist surveillance to me!

Which part of the constitution do you think is DJI violating? The only time they collect flight data is when you request to have a restricted area unlocked. That is clearly documented in their privacy policy, there is nothing stealthy or secretive about that.

 

[Jiggly-Wiggly]

You really can't compare what DJI is doing with what Apple does with iOS.

DJI and Apple are VERY similar in how they approach their products --- which is basically: "Lock down the products because consumers are stupid"

Do you realize how many more iPhones woulda been sold in the last 10 years if Apple opened it up to outside innovation? I lost count how many times I heard iPhone users complain that they couldnt swap out a battery, or added more storage, or been able to use a micro-SD card. Just because Steve Jobs and his minions revered simplistic form over function doesn't mean the millions of smartphone users agree. Cosmetic design will only go so far -- people eventually want a better mousetrap.

DJI has the exact same crappy condescending attitude towards it's customers. Every year, we hear about more firmware updates that keep restricting where and how far we can fly. Where's the cool add-on features like drop devices and supplemental battery packs? People have come up with mods for those kinds of things but they are un-authorized by DJI and that just means they think we are too stupid to realize what we want out of drones.

Apple and DJI can only get away with their despicable behaviour because they have a large market share at the present time. But all great empires fall --- just ask AT&T, Sears, Dell and Compaq, etc. They used to be bullies to their customers but free market forces taught them who's the real boss --- the consumer!

 

[anotherlab]

DJI and Apple are VERY similar in how they approach their products --- which is basically: "Lock down the products because consumers are stupid"

Do you realize how many more iPhones woulda been sold in the last 10 years if Apple opened it up to outside innovation? I lost count how many times I heard iPhone users complain that they couldnt swap out a battery, or added more storage, or been able to use a micro-SD card. Just because Steve Jobs and his minions revered simplistic form over function doesn't mean the millions of smartphone users agree. Cosmetic design will only go so far -- people eventually want a better mousetrap.

DJI has the exact same crappy condescending attitude towards it's customers. Every year, we hear about more firmware updates that keep restricting where and how far we can fly. Where's the cool add-on features like drop devices and supplemental battery packs? People have come up with mods for those kinds of things but they are un-authorized by DJI and that just means they think we are too stupid to realize what we want out of drones.

Apple and DJI can only get away with their despicable behaviour because they have a large market share at the present time. But all great empires fall --- just ask AT&T, Sears, Dell and Compaq, etc. They used to be bullies to their customers but free market forces taught them who's the real boss --- the consumer!

Apple locks down their products for security. Do you have any facts back your opinion that Apple lost sales due to a non-removable battery or lack of a SD card. Apple currently has 1 billion iOS devices in active use. While you disagree, people have been buying those mousetraps.

While I can't guess why DJI decides which platform gets which features, they made the decision that the Inspire platforms gets the multiple batteries and the ability to drop devices. The local sheriff's office has twp Inspire quads that they can use to lower ropes to hikes stuck on a cliff.

DJI is locking down the firmware because ISIS was using Phantom 4 quads to drop mortars. While you disagree with their decision, they are making an effort to police their own use to prevent more restrictive laws from being enacted. Do you really believe that DJI is deliberately trying to sabotage their own business? They are playing a long game and want to keep UAV laws from ending their business.

I'll give you Sears, but AT&T is still around. Dell is doing well. Compaq was acquired by HP and what would have been Compaq labelled business is now just HP business.

 

[Mordor]

Dont compare IOS close to Android open....

I dont buy **** exactly because is close. Im a flasholic and at least with android i can flash, root and even bootloader phones...mine is completly open, SD 128G, amovablebattery, personall rom, camera, etc,etc...

How many Android are selled against iphones? Security? Laughing....never had issues, but im not Istupid...

And yes....DJI even sell products on their stores....but even worse is using their draconian ways of isheep world...

 

[stitch0852]

I understand about wanting control over a device you purchased, but you purchased USAGE rights, not rights to reverse engineer, etc.

I do not like the restrictions they place whereby, if you are in a legal fly zone, a glitch can prevent you from flying.

I have three DJI quads. None have been hacked. My monitoring device is prevented from upgrading the software and has no internet connectivity. THAT is how I hack my devices. I leave them at the firmware level they are at.

That said, I also strive to be a responsible operator. I try to keep it in line of sight, but face it, a cloudy day and you can easily lose sight. I do not fly distances away, mile or more where there is no chance of seeing it.

I can understand DJI locking down their technology. They have designed, programmed, and update their product. Like it or not, the programming IS their product and you are not granted Carte Blanche to do with the technology what you wish, just use it to control your craft.

You cannot go into Windows OS and start hacking away, Microsoft Word, etc. The concept is the same. It is SOFTWARE and licensing states you cannot "reverse engineer."

The harder issue is, while many advocating for the hacking are responsible, there are many more who will abuse it.

Remember, each incident of someone being stupid is another nail in the coffin of hobby fliers, until one day, we will no longer be allowed to fly.

Responsibility and accountability has gone away from our society today. It is now a "if you can catch me" attitude.

Hack or don't hack? No matter to me. I don't and have no desire to. Mine work just fine. My latest P3P has been flying for 2 years? with no cracks, no issues, and I strive to ensure it stays that way.

Not saying you shouldn't hack, just saying if you do, I hope you are responsible in the sharing of those hacks and the openness usage of your device after.

 

[randyvanscoy]

DJI has been taking steps to foil hackers...

"Drone hackers have forced DJI into an arms race.
The tension between drone pilots who want complete control over their aircraft that they bought and DJI, the world's biggest consumer grade drone maker, has come to a head. An arms race between hackers and the company is earnestly underway."


Read more here at the source - DJI Is Locking Down Its Drones Against a Growing Army of DIY Hackers

Ok if dji wants to do right in procting their drones from being used for isis or stuff like that, they can restrict it by gps from those areas. Leave rest of us alone. If we are stupid enough to fly where we shouldnt, it should be handled directly not world wide! People will contunue to hack anything no matter how dji does whatever. **** there are kids 12 years old hacking the goverment now. If u bought something u should have the right to do what u want to it at ur own risk and not make everyone else pay the price.

 

[Slade Steele]

Apple locks down their products for security. Do you have any facts back your opinion that Apple lost sales due to a non-removable battery or lack of a SD card. Apple currently has 1 billion iOS devices in active use. While you disagree, people have been buying those mousetraps.

While I can't guess why DJI decides which platform gets which features, they made the decision that the Inspire platforms gets the multiple batteries and the ability to drop devices. The local sheriff's office has twp Inspire quads that they can use to lower ropes to hikes stuck on a cliff.

DJI is locking down the firmware because ISIS was using Phantom 4 quads to drop mortars. While you disagree with their decision, they are making an effort to police their own use to prevent more restrictive laws from being enacted. Do you really believe that DJI is deliberately trying to sabotage their own business? They are playing a long game and want to keep UAV laws from ending their business.

I'll give you Sears, but AT&T is still around. Dell is doing well. Compaq was acquired by HP and what would have been Compaq labelled business is now just HP business.

Jusr 1 example; that is why I will not purchase Apple products.

 

[Nomesurveyor]

Who are they to tell me what to do with my drone? They hold no responsibility for my actions. If someone buys a gun to kill him/herself, is the gun manufacturer liable? Of course not. That has been tested in court. Sounds like someone with a God complex. This is ridiculous. Just one more thing that makes me wish I had not bought a DJI product.

Frankly, I believe that DJI's data gather is much more insidious than we realize. The fact that they download and archive the flight telemetry as well as "other" data has much more than business implications, I'm certain that taken in the WHOLE context that this information must have valuable MILITARY uses. What better way of collecting this information? Now, if we could just do the same with Ford Focus' sent to China and wouldwide??????? Food for thought.....They can "dictate" to their own people but I ain't Chinese........

 

[The Roach]

Frankly, I believe that DJI's data gather is much more insidious than we realize. The fact that they download and archive the flight telemetry as well as "other" data has much more than business implications, I'm certain that taken in the WHOLE context that this information must have valuable MILITARY uses. What better way of collecting this information? Now, if we could just do the same with Ford Focus' sent to China and wouldwide??????? Food for thought.....They can "dictate" to their own people but I ain't Chinese........

I've been thinking the same thing. Our emergency services are using them as well. Lots of high res imagery with highly accurate GPS data attached being transmitted who knows where. I'll never buy another DJI product. Going to build my own going forward.