DJI Is Locking Down Its Drones Against a Growing Army of DIY Hackers

[robca]

Unlike communists? DJI is a Chinese company subject to communist law. It is in fact a communist corporation.

You must be an American, confused on what communism is ... DJI is as much a communist company as any of the Chinese companies listed on various stock exchanges, and rumored to be IPO-ing soon. Frank Wang is estimated to be a billionaire, and communism does not mint millionaires... The company is privately held, but has received various rounds of financing from American venture capital firms like Sequoia and Accel (which are not very communist) including one valuing the company at $8b in 2015, clearly worth much more today

Nominally China is a communist country, but the private for profit companies in China are anything but. You can read more here China Corporate Law -- The Basics of China's Company Law. | China Law Blog. Private and stock ownership are anathema to any Communist doctrine. If you need a refresher on Communism: communism | Definition, Facts, & History (first sentence "Communism, political and economic doctrine that aims to replace private property and a profit-based economy with public ownership and communal control of at least the major means of production (e.g., mines, mills, and factories)")

 

[wa5tef]

Yeah, it does seem that like a communist country, their "corporate" office has no way of tracking exceptionally poor customer service! In having to deal with DJI Customer Service, I learned a lot about their process. It is all so spread out that no one knows what the others are doing nor do they have any incentive to even care. This leads to many many dissatisfied customers and many more that may not know it yet but soon will be. I tried dealing with them in February after my Phantom 4 flipped upside down and flew into the ground from 200 feet! I learned very quickly that no one there has any authority to make a decision nor do they want to apparently for fear of failure to the company and consequences to them. But, who knows??? Like I stated, I sent my Phantom in for repair and also to find out WHY a drone so sophisticated as a Phantom 4 could ever invert, much less power dive to the ground. I asked everyone I had contact with, including a supposedly supervisor and all gave me a different answer! Even worse, none of the ones I spoke with, or emailed to had any idea of what another employee had told me. I practically begged them for an answer and even submitted 'proof' that a Phantom in full working condition cannot do that! Once flipped, it will right itself almost instantly and hover in place waiting on the next command. I finally paid the bill for the "repair" and even followed the repair process through the several stages and checks to make sure it was completed and flight tested. However, when it came time to ship it back to me, they switched to a new Phantom 4 to shut me up. When I received this unit, I could not mount the propellers because in "their flight testing" they somehow forgot to put the four spring retainer clips back on the motors to hold the propellers. Now, I'm thinking, if they really flight tested it, why would they remove these??? But, it only took them five weeks to "MAIL" the four pieces to me. These must be terribly expensive. AND, they still refused to answer my original question, "How can a Phantom 4 flip over and fly upside down for some 200 feet into the ground?" A simple question for an honest company but DJI never answered!
Jim
WA5TEF

 

[robca]

Yeah, it does seem that like a communist country, their "corporate" office has no way of tracking exceptionally poor customer service! In having to deal with DJI Customer Service, I learned a lot about their process. It is all so spread out that no one knows what the others are doing nor do they have any incentive to even care. This leads to many many dissatisfied customers and many more that may not know it yet but soon will be. I tried dealing with them in February after my Phantom 4 flipped upside down and flew into the ground from 200 feet! I learned very quickly that no one there has any authority to make a decision nor do they want to apparently for fear of failure to the company and consequences to them. But, who knows??? Like I stated, I sent my Phantom in for repair and also to find out WHY a drone so sophisticated as a Phantom 4 could ever invert, much less power dive to the ground. I asked everyone I had contact with, including a supposedly supervisor and all gave me a different answer! Even worse, none of the ones I spoke with, or emailed to had any idea of what another employee had told me. I practically begged them for an answer and even submitted 'proof' that a Phantom in full working condition cannot do that! Once flipped, it will right itself almost instantly and hover in place waiting on the next command. I finally paid the bill for the "repair" and even followed the repair process through the several stages and checks to make sure it was completed and flight tested. However, when it came time to ship it back to me, they switched to a new Phantom 4 to shut me up. When I received this unit, I could not mount the propellers because in "their flight testing" they somehow forgot to put the four spring retainer clips back on the motors to hold the propellers. Now, I'm thinking, if they really flight tested it, why would they remove these??? But, it only took them five weeks to "MAIL" the four pieces to me. These must be terribly expensive. AND, they still refused to answer my original question, "How can a Phantom 4 flip over and fly upside down for some 200 feet into the ground?" A simple question for an honest company but DJI never answered!
Jim
WA5TEF

If you go on the RcGroups forum for the Phantom 4 and ask the user "Tahoe Ed", you might be able to get an answer. He's working for DJI in some capacity,and usually helps escalate issues opened for a long time

Having good or bad support is unrelated to communism in any way... Plenty of example of bad support in corporate America (don't get me started on AT&T or Comcast). I'm definitely no fan of communism, but I find that in the USA anything gets labeled communism or socialism even if it has nothing to do with it. Having grown up in Europe in the 60s and 70s, I had a first row view of all the different variations of communism and socialism one could ever want to (not) see

 

[The Roach]

You must be an American, confused on what communism is ... DJI is as much a communist company as any of the Chinese companies listed on various stock exchanges, and rumored to be IPO-ing soon. Frank Wang is estimated to be a billionaire, and communism does not mint millionaires... The company is privately held, but has received various rounds of financing from American venture capital firms like Sequoia and Accel (which are not very communist) including one valuing the company at $8b in 2015, clearly worth much more today

Nominally China is a communist country, but the private for profit companies in China are anything but. You can read more here China Corporate Law -- The Basics of China's Company Law. | China Law Blog. Private and stock ownership are anathema to any Communist doctrine. If you need a refresher on Communism: communism | Definition, Facts, & History (first sentence "Communism, political and economic doctrine that aims to replace private property and a profit-based economy with public ownership and communal control of at least the major means of production (e.g., mines, mills, and factories)")

Ahh, the naivety about how things actually work in the real world. This is how the left wing gets themselves in trouble. It's like saying that US ideals or European ideals don't make it into the factories in those countries. It's a communist country and a communist company. China will use that company for what every they please. They can take that companies data whenever they please. They can shutdown that company whenever they please. You must be one of those who think all those islands they are building in the China sea are for tourism.

 

[robca]

Ahh, the naivety about how things actually work in the real world. This is how the left wing gets themselves in trouble.

I spent a lot of time and worked in China, managing people there for a few years and learning a lot in the process... not sure what your experience in China is.

As I said, I'm not a fan of communism in any way, but calling everything communism and socialism doesn't help anyone

 

[dirkclod]

Guy's let's go easy in this thread .
Thanks .

 

[stitch0852]

I think you are being a bit myopic here.

First, I didn't purchase usage rights. I purchased a piece of hardware. I own it (them actually). The software, well, thats another issue. Thats licensing and a whole different animal. But they are intertwined."

Believe you are comparing apples to oranges here. There is no comparison between a vehicle someone rides in and one of DJI's quadcopters. Just saying.

I am assuming the "hacking" being discussed is someone going into the code, in some fashion, and editing or modifying it from what was written by the manufacturer. If you do not want changes, then do not apply the upgrades.

It comes down to "is the upgrade going to correct an issue you had at the cost of not being able to do something else." Then make the choice if the fix is worth the cost.

If you compare it to Windows. You are no allowed to go in and reverse engineer Windows software. First, they own it. You are granted a license to use it. You do not own the software code itself, nor do you own the software code inside a Phantom. It is there to allow use of the product, but you do not own it. You cannot pull the code out and sell it because it is not yours. You own the equipment that runs it and uses it to allow your machine to function.

You own the hardware, but only to a point. You cannot take a piece out, like the circuit board, and try to reproduce it for sale. Why, the design is not yours.

This is why you see many copyright violations, when someone does this. The recourse is to try to learn what their update does before applying it so that unwanted mods do not get made to your flying abilities that you currently have.

You purchased a quadcopter, a battery, and a controller. You own that specific unit, but you do not own the technology that makes it function. That is why they are locking down modification capability.

 

[anotherlab]

I haven't spent a lot of time in China but when I was there there was no mistaking that private businesses were growing and the centrally planned economy from decades past is no longer the case. It's a totalitarian regime and the government has a tight grip on the banking system, but other parts of the economy are more or less pure capitalism. If DJI had been based in the US, I don't think it would have played the geofence card any differently.

 

[microlinux]

We need to get Joe McCarthy in here!

 

[Bakersfield Quad]

I think that you would see that it is only existing regulations that are being enforced, as far as I can see.

 

[kyrvas]

Well, the mods might flame me for this, but I see DJI now as a controlling corporation in our hobby. It started off simple enough, with us abiding by a few guidelines like VLOS and altitude limits, along with the usual safety guidelines like not flying around people, airports, etc. Now with every firmware update, there are imbedded restrictions that are passed down to the public.....whether we like it or not. I'm beginning to think that the DJI updates are more malware than firmware.......but that is just my opinion.

As @Trisnpod stated above, it all comes down to being responsible for our own actions. If we cross the line, we risk the fact that more restrictions will be mandated, which will lead to more hacking to bypass the restrictions. Not good.

As for now, I'll stay with my very old firmware and app versions......and block any automatic updates. I'll fly legally and be happy to do so. My only wish is that those that choose to bend the rules a bit, do it with common sense, safety, and responsibility.

How do you "block any automatic updates"?
I am also using older firmware with cinsistent success.

 

[captainmilehigh]

Turn off automatic updates for your apps on your device -phone/iPad etc. You will then need to select each update individually in order to update the app......including the GoApp.

If you are referring to DJI firmware updates, you can choose to update or not. I haven't updated the GoApp in about 9 months...........and the firmware hasn't been updated in well over a year. Both my P3S's fly fine with no issues. Neither bird has DJI's GeoFencing nonsense either.

 

[1340]

Turn off automatic updates for your apps on your device -phone/iPad etc. You will then need to select each update individually in order to update the app......including the GoApp.
.

Just found this thread after being away for a while.
I'm not very tech savvy but I understand this.
I'm a little confused though. Don't you have to stay off the internet with your devices also (to avoid forced updates)?
How do you get maps then?
TIA

 

[anotherlab]

Just found this thread after being away for a while.
I'm not very tech savvy but I understand this.
I'm a little confused though. Don't you have to stay off the internet with your devices also (to avoid forced updates)?
How do you get maps then?
TIA

No, you can disable the automatic update of apps and still keep connected to the Internet.

For Android, do the following:

1. Open Google Play
2. Tap the "hamburger" icon (three horizontal lines) on the upper left.
   
3. Tap Settings.
   
4. Tap Auto-update apps.
   
5. To disable automatic app updates, select Do not auto-update apps.

That disables auto-update for all apps. You can also disable auto-update for just the DJi Go app. That would probably be your best option with Android

1. Open Google Play
2. Tap the "hamburger" icon (three horizontal lines) on the upper left.
   
3. Tap My apps & games
4. Tap INSTALLED
5. Scroll down the list of installed apps until you find the DJI GO app and tap on it it
6. Tap the 3 vertical dots button in the upper right of the screen
7. Clear the Auto-update checkbox.

For iOS, you can only turn auto-update on or off for all of the apps, you can't block updates to just a single app.

1. Open Settings
2. Tap on iTunes & App Store
3. Turn off the green switch next to Updates

 

[captainmilehigh]

Thanks @anotherlab.....you beat me to it. Great explanation too.

To answer part two of the question @1340, you can cache maps in the background anytime to your device. Just turn on your GoApp, select "Cache Maps in the Background ". Then select the map area on the 'camera' screen from the GoApp and locate the area you fly in- zooming in and out in that area on the map. The GoApp caches (remembers) this area.

 

[1340]

I do have auto update disabled in "Settings"
That way I can choose which apps to update.
Just have ignore GO, I guess.

 

[captainmilehigh]

I do have auto update disabled in "Settings"
That way I can choose which apps to update.
Just have ignore GO, I guess.

Yep. That's what I do. I update other apps as needed. But GO hasn't been updated in almost a year. Bird flies great.

Haven't updated firmware either in almost two years.

 

[1340]

OK, thanks for that.

 

[TheFlyingLysan]

Freedom!!! we must be judged by our actions, if someone misuse the drones, they will be facing the law in the country where it happened, it's not DJI who are going to police this in my opinion.

I'm all for certification, registration, however against any policing from the manufacture of drones.

 

[The Roach]

If you go on the RcGroups forum for the Phantom 4 and ask the user "Tahoe Ed", you might be able to get an answer. He's working for DJI in some capacity,and usually helps escalate issues opened for a long time

Having good or bad support is unrelated to communism in any way... Plenty of example of bad support in corporate America (don't get me started on AT&T or Comcast). I'm definitely no fan of communism, but I find that in the USA anything gets labeled communism or socialism even if it has nothing to do with it. Having grown up in Europe in the 60s and 70s, I had a first row view of all the different variations of communism and socialism one could ever want to (not) see

Hummm - seems I'm not the only one - US Army reportedly ceasing use of all DJI drone products