Commercial with the Vison Plus

[DrJoe]

Two of the same conversations going on today:
viewtopic.php?f=27&t=14159

One person's idea of safe may not be another person's idea of safe. End of argument, for now. The FAA and state/local legislature will have their say, sooner or later.

I haven't been so amazed and immersed in a hobby for many, many years. This Phantom has to be one of the coolest gizmos I've ever come across. I'm still evolving my own definition of safe, and have no authority or desire to IMPOSE it on someone else, but I will SHARE my views; not ban, flame, deride, and belittle others because of their views. As always, you are FREE to disagree, but don't be a troll about it.

I think technology will solve most of our issues, anyway.
Losing a prop/motor/esc: There is already autopilot algorithms to deal with the loss of a prop/motor/esc. With the amount of money DJI is taking in lately, perhaps they should include this tech. Check this out:
http://robohub.org/quadrocopter-failsaf ... ller-loss/

This company is developing a tiny transponder that can send your bird's info and receive info from other aircraft.
https://www.sagetechcorp.com/unmanned-solutions/

These researchers have developed a way for "drones" to communicate with one another and mimic "flock" behavior, with the ability to "see and avoid" each other. Perhaps using Sagetech's tech to communicate position (?):
http://www.nature.com/news/autonomous-d ... ds-1.14776
http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/xpl/articleD ... er=6095129

Its just going to get cooler, safer, and more useful. We are standing on the bleeding edge of change. Hopefully, a fearful, politically correct/corrupt government will not be allowed to derail an incredible future. Be your own definition of "safe".

 

[Flyer91]

Simple ..... unless your'e a total dork.

So anyone who doesn't share your view is a "total dork" and, from your "self-policing" thread, every time someone does something that doesn't fit in with your idea of right, wrong, and proper, you want to verbally abuse them & have them banned from the forum?

Are you this upset about the 400-ton, fuel-laden aircraft flying overhead?

No not at all.
Although I do have my own safety procedures it isn't those that I am suggesting people follow.

It's when people ignore the AMA and DJI recommendations, as well as the other international agencies that 'all' specifically warn us "don't fly over people, vehicles or homes" ...... and then these same people post reports/viddys of doing just that.
IMO they are total dorks and should be banned from posting here.

No I don't care about the fuel laden aircraft above my head.
I trust that they are all flying within their respective safety regulations/envelopes and they don't have any impact on if I will get to fly my drone in the future ..... unless they hit me, and then .... well ..... I still won't care

 

[wharfbanger]

I thought it was a very nice video!
Don't listen to all these people who buy their phantom and keep it tucked away under their bed because they are afraid to use it.

Good job!

Yeah ... might as well get your flights in now cuz unimaginative, weak brained and selfish people like you will have this hobby ended for us all soon enough.

Really!!!

C'mon...

The purpose of these devices is so you can capture content from a totally different perspective... If you fly safe, it doesn't matter where you fly... If the Phantom is going to fail on its on, it could happen anywhere... Who knows... It could just drop out the sky or fly away... We don't know... But we can't live out lives behind the "I'm scary" theroy...

All, please fly safe and enjoy this technology... Take some really cool pictures and videos from the wildest of places and post them for us to see...

Great Video!!!

Fly safe? What about mechanical faults. These forums are full of them.
It could happen anywhere? Not sure I see your point. Do you mean it could happen in a densely populated place full of kids, or somewhere unpopulated? Its your choice and responsibility where you fly, and its a numbers game where these things fail and fall out of the sky. My point is, collectively, the more hours get flown in populated areas, the more likely it is someone is going to be hurt.

We cant live our live behind i'm scary theory? So go and risk your own safety, plenty of ways to do that without flying over a crowd.

 

[panhygrous pantler]

It's when people ignore the AMA and DJI recommendations, as well as the other international agencies that 'all' specifically warn us "don't fly over people, vehicles or homes" ...... and then these same people post reports/viddys of doing just that.
IMO they are total dorks and should be banned from posting here.

You should prepare yourself to continually upset then because there are many (most?) folks out there that don't share your fear-based/worst case possible world view.

 

[Flyer91]

Look .....you can call the AMA's and DJI's warnings and recommendations "fear based" if it makes you feel better, or you can throw away the attitude and look at it like it is.
These folks have many years of experience developing guidelines to use when flying RC models.
They are the experts and although I do agree they operate out of concern, I would not call it fear ..... however I do understand people trying to steer the fact that being responsible and operating in an environment of expert knowledge, is just being a little chickenshit.
And you can argue why X can happen or not happen over here but not over there, and all the other smoke screens, to avoid the real question.
And that is why do the experts, both with and without anything to gain ..... all agree that flying over people, homes and vehicles is not safe?
Then after you rationalize a bogus answer, list your qualifications and reasons (in a comprehensible manner) that make your assertions that the experts are wrong, and why specifically it's safe to fly over people, homes and vehicles.
Then 'really' sit back and read it before you make an *** of yourself and post some nonsense about F18s, the new Kardashian season and the baggage retrieval system they have at Heath Rowe.

 

[DrJoe]

1. Calm down and type clearly.
2. The AMA Quote: "All pilots shall avoid flying directly over unprotected people, vessels, vehicles or structures and shall avoid endangerment of life and property of others". That kills it for me. I will fly over people, vessels, vehicles and structures, just like I do in a Piper Archer. I would really like a safety algorithm to get my bird down under controll if I lose a motor though...

 

[panhygrous pantler]

Look .....you can call the AMA's and DJI's warnings and recommendations "fear based" if it makes you feel better, or you can throw away the attitude and look at it like it is.
These folks have many years of experience developing guidelines to use when flying RC models.
They are the experts and although I do agree they operate out of concern, I would not call it fear ..... however I do understand people trying to steer the fact that being responsible and operating in an environment of expert knowledge, is just being a little chickenshit.
And you can argue why X can happen or not happen over here but not over there, and all the other smoke screens, to avoid the real question.
And that is why do the experts, both with and without anything to gain ..... all agree that flying over people, homes and vehicles is not safe?
Then after you rationalize a bogus answer, list your qualifications and reasons (in a comprehensible manner) that make your assertions that the experts are wrong, and why specifically it's safe to fly over people, homes and vehicles.
Then 'really' sit back and read it before you make an *** of yourself and post some nonsense about F18s, the new Kardashian season and the baggage retrieval system they have at Heath Rowe.

As noted above, and proven by your post, you should be prepared to be continually upset by people who don't let fear and paranoia rule their lives.

Claiming that DJI and the AMA are "the experts" is pretty **** funny too. So sorry!That probably upset you as well. Bummer.

 

[wharfbanger]

Just did a quick check online - blunt force to the head versus injury:

"Skull fracture can result from merely walking into a fixed obstruction (73
Newtons), from the 4.5 kg adult head falling from a height of 1 metre onto a
hard surface (510 N), or the head falling from a standing position (873 N)"

I also checked force versus height for a falling object weighing 1.2kg (Phantom):

10m = 1176 N
50m = 5880 N
100m = 11760 N
500m = 58800 N

Summary: a Phantom dropping on an adults head from 10m (33ft) might kill, or likely cause a brain injury. A Phantom dropping from 100m (330ft) would make quite a mess.

Recommendation: don't fly over populated areas

Just trying to be rational

 

[Flyer91]

1. Calm down and type clearly.
2. The AMA Quote: "All pilots shall avoid flying directly over unprotected people, vessels, vehicles or structures and shall avoid endangerment of life and property of others". That kills it for me. I will fly over people, vessels, vehicles and structures, just like I do in a Piper Archer. I would really like a safety algorithm to get my bird down under controll if I lose a motor though...

Glide ratio and control of your engine dead, inspected, licensed and regulated Piper flight vs. glide ratio and comntrol of your motor dead, and soon to be regulated (if not banned for private use) quadcopter.

Don't fly over people, homes or vehicles (and yes vessels) if you want to be part of the continuation of being able to fly these things without encumbering regulations.

Although I hope I'm wrong .... as the man said (with respect to any argument here) "time is on my side ........." especially with people saying to fly as per the DJI, AMA and etc recommendations, is just being afraid, and won't help us at all.
If that's what;s being said .......actually, then I agree.
You guys have convinced me there is nothing that will stop restrictive regulations from becoming on par with the requirements and restrictions of flying a Piper and when/if that happens ...... it will be equally safe to do so.

 

[Big Chips]

first 36 seconds is my reply to this thread...and the chicken littles of the board...(membership drivers for AMA)

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_JEWzS8B2j0[/youtube]

 

[DBS]

Interesting to see the two complete opposing opinions expressed here...

I have my own but I choose to keep them off the boards most times because of this type of squabbling...

One thing I will say is a glaring obvious difference...

One opinion expressed here (safety) violates no rights of the other group... if they do everything they say they're gonna do it will have no consequence to any other flyer.

The other opinion (screw everybody) violates the rights of everybody involved... if they do everything they say they're gonna do it will have consequences we will all have to live with no matter if we followed guidelines or not...

That sucks... I hate the world's f#$k you attitude... it's all fun and games until somebody ends up brain damaged and then "hey whatever... at least we had fun making that video of the parade... too bad we can't do that anymore"

It's too bad the experienced flyers trying to give sound advice are labeled "chicken littles"...
It's too bad the fun flyers can't make the connection between "really cool" and "really risky"...
It's too bad they think that other people's safety is their decision to make... like they even have that right...

But we live in that type of world these days... A drunk driver in a speeding car could end up in your living room... Some crazy crackhead could blast you at the atm machine for a lousy 20 bucks... Some gas pipeline could blow up under the street and take out the whole **** neighborhood due to cheap construction techniques... etc... etc... etc...

Anyway guys... it's not my place to tell any of you how to fly... that will happen soon enough anyway... The government will get involved and laws will be passed and ... well ... I'll still be out here in the middle of nowhere flying whenever I want to ... even if the selfish people get the whole thing banned I imagine we'll still be able to get our stuff on the Internet and keep on keeping on... so whatever guys... it's the nature of the beast... The evolution of the popular toy that proved to be to much excitement for the simple minded... like Lawn Darts... it just may be a thing our kids remember that dad used to do a looonnngggg time ago.

I can live with that... I've seen so much irresponsible behavior in my 50 years on this planet that nothing surprises me anymore

Fly it like you stole it... you just might have to get used to that soon :ugeek:

 

[Big Chips]

you guys are fooling yourselves if you think heavy regulations are not coming...they are...simple as that. Enjoy this while it last like it is...because 12 months from now it will be coming into heavy regulation which will control what is done.

I just get really irritated when people think that just being nice and "policing " ourselves will help deter regulations. LMFAO! It will not. The FAA ha sno control over these currently (in Law) and they will have it ..total control come hell or high water.PERIOD! It is the government way.

I compare this to the late 1980s and 1990s with gun control. I remember how ope the market was. You could go in and purchase a UZI or Mack 10 or Tec 9 and have all that fire power in your car or house. They regulated the hell out of them and then the prices went into outer space. I suspect the same will happen with these...since they are becoming very popular for Joe Smoe to purchase...just like the guns were. When the price shoot sup...mine will be for sale and I will talk about how I use to have one and what you could do with it before they regulated the hell out of them

I am currently going around anytime i can and getting all the stock footage i need while i still can get it without having be hounded by regulations or the "man".

 

[panhygrous pantler]

you guys are fooling yourselves if you think heavy regulations are not coming...they are...simple as that. Enjoy this while it last like it is...because 12 months from now it will be coming into heavy regulation which will control what is done.

I am currently going around anytime i can and getting all the stock footage i need while i still can get it without having be hounded by regulations or the "man".

Food for thought:

Even if "heavy regulation" comes along there is another aspect that many folks seem to be ignoring - enforcement, or the inability to enforce those new regulations due to funding, enough human assets, etc.

 

[Big Chips]

you guys are fooling yourselves if you think heavy regulations are not coming...they are...simple as that. Enjoy this while it last like it is...because 12 months from now it will be coming into heavy regulation which will control what is done.

I am currently going around anytime i can and getting all the stock footage i need while i still can get it without having be hounded by regulations or the "man".

Food for thought:

Even if "heavy regulation" comes along there is another aspect that many folks seem to be ignoring - enforcement, or the inability to enforce those new regulations due to funding, enough human assets, etc.

All it will take it a national and cable news networks telling general America and your neighbor next door about the new laws and the penalties associated with them ..and then you fly yours and some one sees you and then you get snitched on. You go bankrupt fighting it in court or take a loan out to pay a hefty fine.

 

[panhygrous pantler]

All it will take it a national and cable news networks telling general America and your neighbor next door about the new laws and the penalties associated with them ..and then you fly yours and some one sees you and then you get snitched on. You go bankrupt fighting it in court or take a loan out to pay a hefty fine.

Lots of fantastic assumptions going on here. I've seen folks make similar assumption-riddled claims regarding other activities (wakeboarding, wakesurfing, mountain biking, skiing, windsurfing, driving really fast on public roads, road riding and commuting) and for the most part they've been way, way off base.

 

[DrJoe]

This is ridiculous.

Whilst we bicker amongst ourselves (phantom fans), the wheels of government and law enforcement churn on. What do we have in common?

I haven't heard anyone against treating these as hobby aircraft and leaving the rules for such untouched. Nor have I heard anyone against protecting privacy. Nor have I heard from anyone looking to avoide personal responsibility if an accident should occur.

Ah, common ground. now someone with expeience in these matters (I only fix teeth) please set up a PAC, and hire a lobbiest in Washington to represent those interests to our representatives. I'll kick in a hundred. And write your local government about your concerns. Now is the time to ensure our voices are heard.

Leave us alone government dudes, we got it. And if we hit a little girl, we bare the responsibility for it, as if we were operating a motor vehicle. And if they want a competency test, I know I can ace a flight text and I'd pay a fee to get a drone license. ($25). And I'd leave hovering over your neighbors backyard to the tolerance of your community.

 

[Bjorn Thore]

Bjorn, nice video. I love the look of wonder on the kid's faces. Guess I may as well say what I have to say considering some of the replies. It looks to me like Bjorn was flying slowing and carefully in a very controlled flight, something very easy to do with a Phantom. He was basically hovering, not flying all crazy zooming over people at 40 mph. EVERYONE who was watching seems to have been enjoying it and seemed to display the same amazement watching that we feel as Phantom pilots. I can't tell you how many times I fly and people come up to look and inquire about the Phantom.

"What is it? It has a camera? You can see the camera view? How much is it? How far can it go? Where do I get one?"

People are always smiling & waving at the Phantom, and clamoring for a closer look. Heck, I need to start carrying DJI business cards in my wallet! Not that a Phantom is infallible, but flying a Phantom near people is a hell of a lot different than me buzzing the field at 150 mph with my F/A-18 SuperHornet. Obviously a Phantom can cause injury, but it weighs 2.7 pounds. 400-ton aircraft fly over heavily populated areas each and every day, traveling at 600 mph and loaded with highly flammable fuel. Sometimes they actually crash into those populated areas.

It would seem to me that we want everyone to see just how amazing, controllable, and safe the Phantom's technology has become. The way to do that is expose as many people to the technology, so they see for themselves.

Well said my friend and thanks for your comment.

 

[Bjorn Thore]

you guys are fooling yourselves if you think heavy regulations are not coming...they are...simple as that. Enjoy this while it last like it is...because 12 months from now it will be coming into heavy regulation which will control what is done.

I just get really irritated when people think that just being nice and "policing " ourselves will help deter regulations. LMFAO! It will not. The FAA ha sno control over these currently (in Law) and they will have it ..total control come hell or high water.PERIOD! It is the government way.

I compare this to the late 1980s and 1990s with gun control. I remember how ope the market was. You could go in and purchase a UZI or Mack 10 or Tec 9 and have all that fire power in your car or house. They regulated the hell out of them and then the prices went into outer space. I suspect the same will happen with these...since they are becoming very popular for Joe Smoe to purchase...just like the guns were. When the price shoot sup...mine will be for sale and I will talk about how I use to have one and what you could do with it before they regulated the hell out of them

I am currently going around anytime i can and getting all the stock footage i need while i still can get it without having be hounded by regulations or the "man".

Well I'm not sow sure about that. April 2 the Norwegian gourment decided that there is no law that regulate filming from the skies, before there were regulated by law. Sow it`s look to me that they are gone ease up on the regulation.

 

[Flyer91]

I posted this in my policing/insurance thread and wanted to also post it here to hopefully do a better job of explaining what I was hoping to accomplish.

Its apparent that I that didn't explain my position well enough and as a consequence ....... deservedly, I've basically crashed and burned.

I've decided to send my Plus back for now, and see how the next few months shake out for both new legislation/restrictions and technology.
IMHO: It's totally possible that we could have a type of crash avoidance built in, and laws/restrictions that I could live with (and I kind'a would like to see a bit better camera, as well as the tilt lever back).

I am a bit concerned (but not overly so) that the practice of flying over people .... especially kids, will get as a reputation that will be an embarrassment .... and one that 'I' wouldn't want to be a associated with, but I suspect (and hope) that sooner than that happening the administrators for places like soccer fields and such, will 'quietly' ban them (under the advice of their legal council's concerns of liability exposure) before any legislation takes place (like Yosemite just recently did ... albeit for noise, not safety) and/or anybody's kid gets hurt.

I suspect that will be followed by bannings (also quietly accomplished overnight) at municipal beaches, lakes, private and then public parks and entire cites, also as advised by their legal counsel due to concerns over liability, like many munis did to "Park Flyers".
Actually all of this has already started,and the reasons cited in most cases that I've read about are flying over people, homes and vehicles/vessels .... I.e.. Texas, California beach munis that have celebrities in them, the guy that got arrested in N.Y., and I believe Denver (or possibly some other city in Co.(???) has baned them... etc.
Then will come the legislation on significantly higher/larger levels (state and federal).

Hopefully when it all shakes out it all won't be too restrictive, and/or with the steep technology curve we are in there will be ways to mitigate any super-restrictive laws before they get enacted .... assuming we even actually do end up there.
My gut is that the next few months should tell if this is ... or is not going to happen, and if so, to what level.

Sorry AMA haters, but the AMA 'is' a large political lobby and the loudest voice for our concerns.
But you cant voice 'your' concerns unless you are part of it and have a vote on how it tosses it's weight in any political arena.
The membership is $58/yr. (and at times they have a 25% discount for new members) and the insurance is better to have than not ..... plus you get a truly good Radio Control magazine each month ....... and a semi-cool sticker!

It any case ... sorry if I peed in your oatmeal, none of you guys are the enemy.
It was not my intentions to try and restrict you at all, but instead to not get us restricted.
I now see that self policing discussions won't work due to it being such a hot topic, the impersonal nature of the internet, and just plain human nature to get pissed when our ideas are not perceived as being respected.

Now for the 'real' reason for my post .......I'll have some new and uncharged smart batteries, a charger, modified new version Tx with iPad mini (Verizon) and custom ipad mini holder, as well as other P2 items for sale in the classifieds over the next few days so if interested please take a peek there.

Once things shake out, and if it's still reasonably free/doable to fly these things .... as the "flying camera" that they are designed for .... I'll most assuredly be back.

Enjoy!

 

[Doono]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U4ULLOWpzmU

Enjoy and hope you like it.


Regards
Bjorn

Can't watch it, some sort of copyright geo lock.