BATTERY ISSUES (Early Autoland)??? POST HERE

wkf94025 · Jun 17, 2014

Re: 25%-40% Battery Warning and Auto Descend??

I just ordered one of the NukeRC batteries, as I resent the hostage pricing of the DJI batteries, and I smell a skunk on the early landing behavior a bunch of us are now experiencing while the DJI battery still has 40+% left. God save them if this is programmed obsolescence in the firmware.

I will strip one of my older P2's down as the test pilot for the forthcoming NukeRC battery. If I get a dozen good flights on the bare bones platform with no power anomalies, I will start loading the expensive gear back on. I will report back full results, good or bad. If anyone else has received or is about to receive the NukeRC battery, please let us know how it goes.

Kelly

erico · Jun 17, 2014

Re: 25%-40% Battery Warning and Auto Descend??

I have just tested my two batteries on firmware 1.08 and getting exactly same results .. 36% and 30% and straight into auto-land.
I am going to place a order for a Nuke battery as well .

Eric

shartlza · Jun 17, 2014

Re: 25%-40% Battery Warning and Auto Descend??

erico said:
I have just tested my two batteries on firmware 1.08 and getting exactly same results .. 36% and 30% and straight into auto-land.
I am going to place a order for a Nuke battery as well .

Eric

I think it has to be the battery. DJI should warranty these crap batteries!!!!

By the way did you see their facebook comment about clone batteries and how they tested some and said they are not the quality of DJI batteries and don't go through the QC that their batteries go through and that they could cause harm or damage. Either they are telling the truth (probably not) or they are getting nervouse that they are going to start loosing business. If anything, maybe this will get them to lower their price or even make a better battery at the same price to out due the others.

Also to let you all know i PMed Terry who works at DJI and is on this board helping out with the BETA firmware fix for the declination issue. So lets see if he gets back to me with anything. I am going to tabulate how many are having this issue and when we get close to about 40ish people i say we really start pushing DJI and start "Project Dying Sparrow".

wkf94025 · Jun 17, 2014

Re: 25%-40% Battery Warning and Auto Descend??

I also had a forced landing 2km from home and fortunately had enough time to tilt camera down and pick the LZ, avoiding a pool and several tall oak trees. I got lucky, others like you not so lucky. DJI should refund/replace. Any chance you have DVR of your roof-top crash?

-----------
OT Alert.
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I know it's a lot of extra cash in an already expensive hobby, but imagine if every Phantom owner had DVR for diagnosing these various failure modes. Better yet, full avionics telemetry'd back and merged with control inputs, logged real time in a ground station black box. I sure hope they have something like that at the factory, or we're in for years of "two steps forward, one step back".

Kelly

beeline · Jun 17, 2014

Re: 25%-40% Battery Warning and Auto Descend??

Hello folks,

Short time lurker, first time poster.

Just got my Phantom 2/H3-3D gimbal and have enjoyed 5 batteries of amazement. My ProGo arrives Thursday, so I will have had a week to fly it light and naked before dealing with a payload. One light crash into some bushes when I flew it over my head and got disoriented. Trimmed the bush nicely and can see a lot of potential as a sidewalk blower.

Flew NAZA-M mode for the first time yesterday and that really opened my eyes. I make my living shooting and editing video and so excited about the possibilities. Plan on adding FPV at a future date but think it best to take it one step at a time. I'm no RC novice but no expert by any means.

This battery thing concerns me. I have to be confident it won't fall in the drink or anywhere else (except when I tell it too!). I'm wondering what battery protocol users are following who are experiencing problems.

I see DJI recommends keeping the idle batteries at 50% charge when not in use. That's nice, except if I only charge them to 50% after draining, and top them off before I fly, that counts as two charge cycles, right? So what is the best procedure, charge them just after use or wait until flight day. How long should they stay at full charge/low charge without compromising their longevity? Sony says you should store their Lithium batteries at 70% charge for short term (a week or so) but recommend 50% for long term.

So many more questions, but I'll save those for the appropriate thread. Thanks for all the great information I've gleaned from this site!

wkf94025 · Jun 17, 2014

Re: 25%-40% Battery Warning and Auto Descend??

For those who have not had the enjoyment of premature auto-landing, it is possible to keep the ship aloft, and even gain altitude, albeit slowly. In my recent experience with most of my batteries and auto-landing, full left stick forward will get you about 0.2m/sec climb. You need at least 90% full left stick forward to maintain altitude. Neutral left stick will result in a descent rate of ~0.8m/sec. Your actual mileage may vary...

Kelly

erico · Jun 17, 2014

Re: 25%-40% Battery Warning and Auto Descend??

wkf94025 said:
For those who have not had the enjoyment of premature auto-landing, it is possible to keep the ship aloft, and even gain altitude, albeit slowly. In my recent experience with most of my batteries and auto-landing, full left stick forward will get you about 0.2m/sec climb. You need at least 90% full left stick forward to maintain altitude. Neutral left stick will result in a descent rate of ~0.8m/sec. Your actual mileage may vary...

Kelly

I agree with you Kelly but when mine starts to auto descend I would be lucky to have 10 to 20 secs of minimum power using full left stick forward so I let it descend and use what power I have to make a soft landing or try to make to a safe landing area .
I feel like Armstrong having a moon landing . so far so good ! I would prefer no moon landings

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

erico · Jun 17, 2014

Re: 25%-40% Battery Warning and Auto Descend??

wkf94025 said:
For those who have not had the enjoyment of premature auto-landing, it is possible to keep the ship aloft, and even gain altitude, albeit slowly. In my recent experience with most of my batteries and auto-landing, full left stick forward will get you about 0.2m/sec climb. You need at least 90% full left stick forward to maintain altitude. Neutral left stick will result in a descent rate of ~0.8m/sec. Your actual mileage may vary...

Kelly

I agree with you Kelly but when mine starts to auto descend I would be lucky to have 10 to 20 secs of minimum power using full left stick forward so I let it descend and use what power I have to make a soft landing or try to make to a safe landing area .
I feel like Armstrong having a moon landing . so far so good ! I would prefer no moon landings

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Captain Salty · Jun 18, 2014

Re: 25%-40% Battery Warning and Auto Descend??

I posted back on page 2 about an autolanding at around 60%

I discharged the battery to 8% on the iosd and then recharged it. Took it out for a fly, 7mins flight (fully loaded) then changed location and got another 7mins flight and landed at 30%. Both flights were mega aggressive. First warning lights came on from about 35% but didn't get the auto land.

My warnings are 25% / 15%

shartlza · Jun 18, 2014

Re: 25%-40% Battery Warning and Auto Descend??

Lets keep this post going. We only have 10 people here so far. For all of you who have listed stats, thank you very much, but we need more people to do this. Here is a quick format i set up of all the people that have had this issue. Please try to fill out all your stats in this format, so i can compile a list. Also a note to keep it simple just give your worst battery stats.

NMG318 · Jun 18, 2014

Re: 25%-40% Battery Warning and Auto Descend??

DrJoe said:
Just chiming in...
I have a phantom two vision plus
Running 1.08 firmware version
Suddenly one of my two batteries gives me a low battery warnings at 65% will no longer gain altitude and will be in auto descent mode. This happened over the ocean yesterday. I fully discharged and fully recharge this battery, and tested it at home low over grass. Same problem. My summation is the battery is bad, as my other battery works perfectly. Both batteries have a 92% lifetime rating in the assistant software. Do I have no other choice but to purchase a new battery?

Running 2.0 firmware version with 40 flights with no issues. Acquired a new battery with 10 flights. Today (with new battery) phantom2 auto landed at 65% (iOSD info). Battery was flashing empty about 6 minutes into the flight. Fortunately I was over an open field at the time. I cycled the battery on/off but still showed 65% with "empty battery" symbol. I removed the battery and reinstalled and got 65% with corresponding battery indication. Took off and rest of flight was uneventful with normal indications. Flew another flight with original battery with no problems. Just completed numerous flights over water just before mishap flight!!!! Is this a bad battery??? Can I ever trust my phantom over water or trees again???

imelda1804 · Jun 19, 2014

Re: 25%-40% Battery Warning and Auto Descend??

shartlza said:
Lets keep this post going. We only have 10 people here so far. For all of you who have listed stats, thank you very much, but we need more people to do this. Here is a quick format i set up of all the people that have had this issue. Please try to fill out all your stats in this format, so i can compile a list. Also a note to keep it simple just give your worst battery stats.

Here's my input:

Firmware: 3.04
Weight: stock P2V
Warning levels: 20% / 15%
Battery life: 95% (charge cycle 15)
Flight condition: calm / steady hover
Flight time:9:30
Battery auto land: 49%

Also, plugging in my craft to my PC upon auto land, and the application prompted "not DJI intelligent battery"

WessexWyvern · Jun 19, 2014

Re: 25%-40% Battery Warning and Auto Descend??

I had an auto land at 40% yesterday. What I found strange us that i couldn't over ride it. After the auto land sequence finished I took back control and flew for a few more mins without a problem so I'm not sure if this is the same problem that everyone else is having or a one off glitch. Hold off from adding my name to the list for the moment while I do more testing but I thought I'd just add to the thread to make sure it stays active.

gecarey · Jun 19, 2014

Re: 25%-40% Battery Warning and Auto Descend??

Interesting events this evening...
I just got back from flying all three of my batteries, results as follows,

Battery #1 -88 charge cycles
Low Battery/ Land @ 46% tonight. This is becoming consistent with this battery.
I brought it close and was still flying it with throttle at 90%.
I did get over 14 minutes flight time and finally landed it at 7% with 10.5 volts indicating on the IOSD/FPV

Battery #2 -66 charge cycles
Low Battery/Land @ 32% tonight, close to 30% but...
Same deal I brought it back close and flew @ 90% throttle.
Again, I got over 14 minutes on this one as well. Landed @ 7% with 10.6 volts showing

Battery #3 -10 charge cycles
The low battery came on at 30%(right on the spot) and still flew as normal.
It went to land @ 28%, the first time this has happened with this battery(it is friggen brand new)
Once again, 90% throttle and it kept going till I got bored and landed it at about 13% on the battery. 11. volts.
14 Minutes, no problem as well.
I have a 14 min countdown timer on my Futaba, so thats why the 14 min. I did fly at least another minute or two past that on all three batteries.

So, If I had to guess, we are seeing another bug in the sauce. Something it tripping these things into land mode at strange levels, that, at least for me, do not jibe with the settings in the assistant. Mine are set to 30%(warn) and 15%(land).

I am tired of having to plan flights around what the battery will do not the other way around. I find no fun flying the thing at 90% throttle 4 ft off the ground after I get to 50%, as a precaution. Really Boring !

Something is going on that so many of us are beginning to see the same problems. Does anyone know how to decipher the date codes on these batteries(if there are any)? Or the serial # sequence ? That seems to be an enigma as well. I would bet the individual cells inside have a date code, but I am not going to crack the case open(at this point) to figure it out.
Does anyone have a dead(crashed) battery that would be willing to do some exploratory surgery and see if there are any date codes or anything that may give us a clue to work with ? Or ship it my way and I will do the surgery, I will even pay the freight.

I wish my Nuker battery would hurry up and show up so I can torture test it and see if the claims there will hold up(hopefully they do), but I am skeptical until proven otherwise. Only problem will be flying my butt off to get cycles on the thing.

Are we having fun yet ?????

gecarey · Jun 19, 2014

Re: 25%-40% Battery Warning and Auto Descend??

Hey everyone,
I just sent an email to DJI support in all corners of the globe about our issue.... Not expecting any response, of course....

If you have not already done so, please post or PM your specific info on batteries to Sharitza so it can be incorporated into the spread sheet that is being compiled.

If for some reason I do hear from DJI( I am pretty sure I will with this one)I will need a lot of info quickly to shove at them.
The more the merrier with the data, so take a minute or two and get your data together. Hopefully something will come from this....

shartlza · Jun 19, 2014

Re: 25%-40% Battery Warning and Auto Descend??

WessexWyvern said:
I had an auto land at 40% yesterday. What I found strange us that i couldn't over ride it. After the auto land sequence finished I took back control and flew for a few more mins without a problem so I'm not sure if this is the same problem that everyone else is having or a one off glitch. Hold off from adding my name to the list for the moment while I do more testing but I thought I'd just add to the thread to make sure it stays active.

This is what is happening to mine. It goes into auto land at around 35%-40% (can't over ride) and then after it lands the lights go back to green and i can take off again, but now mine flies for only about 10 seconds before the lights go red and starts to auto land again. Please watch yours and report back if you continue to see this behavior.

shartlza · Jun 19, 2014

Re: 25%-40% Battery Warning and Auto Descend??

gecarey said:
Hey everyone,
I just sent an email to DJI support in all corners of the globe about our issue.... Not expecting any response, of course....

If you have not already done so, please post or PM your specific info on batteries to Sharitza so it can be incorporated into the spread sheet that is being compiled.

If for some reason I do hear from DJI( I am pretty sure I will with this one)I will need a lot of info quickly to shove at them.
The more the merrier with the data, so take a minute or two and get your data together. Hopefully something will come from this....

Yes, agreed, get me your info ASAP. Also if you hear of anyone else with this problem please forward them to this post so we can get a larger list since we only have 10 people, which is only like .09% of the people registered on this board. I think we need to at least get 30 to 40 people before we can start proving this is a bigger issue. It is a big issue for me, since my battery is getting worse and worse each flight (even after just doing the discharge to 8% and fully recharging)!!!

beeline · Jun 19, 2014

Re: 25%-40% Battery Warning and Auto Descend??

Is everyone having problems following proper LiPo battery procedures?

From DJI: "It’s recommended to charge and discharge the battery thoroughly once every 20 charge/discharge cycles.Users should discharge the battery until there is less than 8% power left or until the battery can no longer be turned on." Also, "For long term storage please place the battery with only a 40~50% capacity in a strong battery box
securely. We recommend discharging and charging the battery completely once every 3 months to keep it
in good condition. The capacity should be varied in such a cycle (40%~50%)—0%—100%—(40%~50%)."

Further reading from http://powerelectronics.com/mobile/proper-care-extends-li-ion-battery-life : "...permanent capacity loss also occurs even when the battery is not in use. Permanent capacity loss is greatest at elevated temperatures with the battery voltage maintained at 4.2 V (fully charged). For maximum storage life, batteries should be stored with a 40% charge (3.6 V) at 40°F (refrigerator). Also, "The more time the battery remains at 4.2 V or 100% charge level (or 3.6 V for Li-ion phosphate), the faster the capacity loss occurs. This is true whether the battery is being charged or just in a fully charged condition with the voltage near 4.2 V. Always maintaining a Li-ion battery in a fully charged condition will shorten its lifetime. And "Using partial-discharge cycles can greatly increase cycle life, and charging to less than 100% capacity can increase battery life even further." "Using only 20% or 30% of the battery capacity before recharging will extend cycle life considerably. As a general rule, 5 to 10 shallow discharge cycles are equal to one full discharge cycle. Although partial-discharge cycles can number in the thousands, keeping the battery in a fully charged state also shortens battery life. Full discharge cycles (down to 2.5 V or 3 V, depending on chemistry) should be avoided if possible."

It appears as though some of this information contradicts what DJI recommends (if completely discharging a phantom battery takes it to 3v), but somewhere in there lies the truth.

Are your battery contacts clean? Did a violent crash damage the internals of the battery?

Compiling stats from users who are having issues may be nothing more than anecdotal evidence unless the same users also report that proper battery procedures have been followed.

I'm not suggesting some (or all) batteries are not defective nor am I a DJI apologist. Just trying to get to the root of the problem so I don't have a bad experience like many of you have had.

shartlza · Jun 19, 2014

Re: 25%-40% Battery Warning and Auto Descend??

beeline said:
Is everyone having problems following proper LiPo battery procedures?

From DJI: "It’s recommended to charge and discharge the battery thoroughly once every 20 charge/discharge cycles.Users should discharge the battery until there is less than 8% power left or until the battery can no longer be turned on." Also, "For long term storage please place the battery with only a 40~50% capacity in a strong battery box
securely. We recommend discharging and charging the battery completely once every 3 months to keep it
in good condition. The capacity should be varied in such a cycle (40%~50%)—0%—100%—(40%~50%)."

Further reading from http://powerelectronics.com/mobile/proper-care-extends-li-ion-battery-life : "...permanent capacity loss also occurs even when the battery is not in use. Permanent capacity loss is greatest at elevated temperatures with the battery voltage maintained at 4.2 V (fully charged). For maximum storage life, batteries should be stored with a 40% charge (3.6 V) at 40°F (refrigerator). Also, "The more time the battery remains at 4.2 V or 100% charge level (or 3.6 V for Li-ion phosphate), the faster the capacity loss occurs. This is true whether the battery is being charged or just in a fully charged condition with the voltage near 4.2 V. Always maintaining a Li-ion battery in a fully charged condition will shorten its lifetime. And "Using partial-discharge cycles can greatly increase cycle life, and charging to less than 100% capacity can increase battery life even further." "Using only 20% or 30% of the battery capacity before recharging will extend cycle life considerably. As a general rule, 5 to 10 shallow discharge cycles are equal to one full discharge cycle. Although partial-discharge cycles can number in the thousands, keeping the battery in a fully charged state also shortens battery life. Full discharge cycles (down to 2.5 V or 3 V, depending on chemistry) should be avoided if possible."

It appears as though some of this information contradicts what DJI recommends (if completely discharging a phantom battery takes it to 3v), but somewhere in there lies the truth.

Are your battery contacts clean? Did a violent crash damage the internals of the battery?

Compiling stats from users who are having issues may be nothing more than anecdotal evidence unless the same users also report that proper battery procedures have been followed.

I'm not suggesting some (or all) batteries are not defective nor am I a DJI apologist. Just trying to get to the root of the problem so I don't have a bad experience like many of you have had.

I think all of us that have had this battery problem have properly discharged to 8% and fully recharge every 20 cycles, but some people have not even gotten to 20 cycles and are seeing this issue. Even though i think it is most severe in batteries that have been discharged around 70 to 80 times.

beeline · Jun 19, 2014

Re: 25%-40% Battery Warning and Auto Descend??

I think all of us that have had this battery problem have properly discharged to 8% and fully recharge every 20 cycles, but some people have not even gotten to 20 cycles and are seeing this issue. Even though i think it is most severe in batteries that have been discharged around 70 to 80 times.

Of the users reporting problems, are you fully charging batteries immediately after flight and then not flying again for several days/weeks? Waiting to charge again just before you fly? Perhaps charging up to 50% right after flight and topping off just before another might help? Tried mixing up the charge percentages, as DJI recommends? Is a fully loaded Phantom 2 too much for this battery/system to be reliable?

Just trying to think a bit outside the box because if my batteries start this mess I won't be happy either. My GoPro H3+ arrives this evening, so the stakes get even higher from now on.