Airspace Authorization - Ongoing

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Greetings pilots. First off, love this site, the community, and the wealth of knowledge collected here. I'm a new drone owner - Phantom 3 Standard; a professional writer and photographer; and, as it happens, a REALTOR. I do a few more things, but these are the relevant items based on my question/this post.

I do the marketing for a local real estate brokerage (that's where my photography and writing come in) and to ensure I don't say anything wrong, I got my real estate license and also became a REALTOR.

The brokerage owner (the company is only three people and does 10 listings a year - very exclusive) asked me what it would take to get aerial clips of the listings we have and I stumbled down this road and now am scheduled to take my 107 Wednesday.

ALL THAT SAID...

Looking at the map, 20% of our listings (and the house I live in) are in the RED CIRCLE at the SSE edge of the B Airspace covering Logan Airport in Boston.

Logan_B Airspace.jpg


Therefore I will need a standing authorization to fly and take photos in this area because 100% of the homes we list are sold within 90 days...which makes the 90-day authorization approval period a major speedbump.

My THREE questions...

1 - how soon do folks anticipate the system being moved to a swifter online process of applications and approvals?

2 - if provided a 24-month authorization to fly in this red circle, am I still expected to call the tower and provide specifics for each flight during that two-year period?

3 - What parameters are most likely to receive approval - understanding the end product needed? e.g. Max height need not be anything more than 150 feet AGL as the max height of residential property in Hingham is about 37 feet AGL. No need for over people, non-daylight, stadium, moving vehicle or other waivers.

3a - If I get a listing in Hull (to the east of the red circle, almost the entire town is in B airspace for Logan), can I use an approval for the red circle area in making my case for authorization adjacent to my regular operating area.

3b - am I correct that airspace B south of the red circle begins at 2000 feet and therefore wouldn't require any authorization when I film property listings there?

Thanks in advance. Image is attached or pasted in or however it appears. This is my first post.
 
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You also have a magenta line to deal with

I also am a real estate broker and have 7 applications in for various Municipalities with controlled airspace. My applications have been in over 60 days with no approvals yet.
 

sar104

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You also have a magenta line to deal with

I also am a real estate broker and have 7 applications in for various Municipalities with controlled airspace. My applications have been in over 60 days with no approvals yet.
The magenta line is 700ft Class E, so that's not going to be a factor, only the surface Class B.
 
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You are correct, and I understand that, but since he is in the process of getting his 107 I thought I would point it out because it would be a good aid in understanding how they stack control zones for the test.
 
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Also check the new FAA sUAV airmaps which show the red circle area above as <300 feet even if Class B for the floor if you are seeking approval. Some over the water are at zero feet closer in to Boston (fwiw, the southern San Francisco Bay area now is also zero feet now, i.e. No approval for sUAV with their new maps.). It's getting more confusing to sort this Class airspace stuff out with the new FAA airspace for sUAV zones, and with some cities now having the White House approval to make up their own UAV flight areas (Which is likely "NO!" for some local legislatures.).

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https://faa.maps.arcgis.com/apps/webappviewer/index.html?id=9c2e4406710048e19806ebf6a06754ad
How to speed it up may hinge on these new maps, but being federal I wouldn't bet on it. And then the issue dealing with DJI to unlock the NFZ zone which might take some more paperwork/time/weeks.
 

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Unless I'm blind, the only magenta line I see is the dashed isogonic line on the right side of the chart. That has nothing to do with airspace and is used to correct true directions to magnetic directions.
 
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sar104

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Unless I'm blind, the only magenta line I see is the dashed isogonic line on the right side of the chart. That has nothing to do with airspace and is used to correct true directions to magnetic directions.
Not sure how to answer that. What color would you describe that as?

map.png
 

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Thanks, Cap'n Stubbie. Glad it wasn't a snake, it would have bitten me.
And SAR104, the color is magenta.
 

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1 - how soon do folks anticipate the system being moved to a swifter online process of applications and approvals?
If, and this is a big if, everything goes as planned summer/fall of 2018. Don't bet your business on it until it goes into effect in YOUR area.
2 - if provided a 24-month authorization to fly in this red circle, am I still expected to call the tower and provide specifics for each flight during that two-year period?
Your Authorization will have those specific details. It's up to the local ATC exactly how they want you to notify them. Once it is approved it will have all those details inside.

3 - What parameters are most likely to receive approval - understanding the end product needed? e.g. Max height need not be anything more than 150 feet AGL as the max height of residential property in Hingham is about 37 feet AGL. No need for over people, non-daylight, stadium, moving vehicle or other waivers.
You list the reasons for the flight, the areas you want to fly in, the height you are "asking for" and they make the determination. You probably won't get a height that is higher than what is on the approved grid so not much use in trying to ask for it.

3a - If I get a listing in Hull (to the east of the red circle, almost the entire town is in B airspace for Logan), can I use an approval for the red circle area in making my case for authorization adjacent to my regular operating area.
Your authorization will be very specific for the area and is not transferable to an adjacent area unless it is written in the approval. If you need multiple areas include this in your original request they might be able to combine them.

Mine (Class CHARLIE) took just over 100 days to get approved and I got more than I requested.
 
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You are correct, and I understand that, but since he is in the process of getting his 107 I thought I would point it out because it would be a good aid in understanding how they stack control zones for the test.
Appreciated. Excited for the test. Also happy for all the input...good community. Thanks.
 
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Also check the new FAA sUAV airmaps which show the red circle area above as <300 feet even if Class B for the floor if you are seeking approval. Some over the water are at zero feet closer in to Boston (fwiw, the southern San Francisco Bay area now is also zero feet now, i.e. No approval for sUAV with their new maps.). It's getting more confusing to sort this Class airspace stuff out with the new FAA airspace for sUAV zones, and with some cities now having the White House approval to make up their own UAV flight areas (Which is likely "NO!" for some local legislatures.).

ArcGIS Web Application
How to speed it up may hinge on these new maps, but being federal I wouldn't bet on it. And then the issue dealing with DJI to unlock the NFZ zone which might take some more paperwork/time/weeks.
Interesting. Will get supplemental charts for my area once I have the 107 certification. Also already checked with DJI and tested the drone. The NFZ/lockout isn't in effect at my location. I believe it's a smaller circle in Boston closer to (and over) the airport. Drone DOES fly with a warning in my back yard. To test it I tied a rope around it and flew it tethered no higher than my house in the back yard. At least that's how I recall my test flight.
 
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Yes, these new sUAV charts are confusing in conjunction with the older aero Class charts, but easier to read, imo. They seem to be drawn up by the local tower operators with their idea of where the sUAV floors exist around their airport. Even though one area near me has the floor at 700 feet, it is zero on the chart which I can understand as it is an IFR flight route on takeoff on one side of the airport where the tower often sends them on an immediate left turn on release or takeoff. I need to ask the local school that does the computer testing as to if these take precedence over the Class charts if they show up around airports that use them. They came out after I took my 107 test and may be in the newer test. Don't know.
 

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Yes, these new sUAV charts are confusing in conjunction with the older aero Class charts, but easier to read, imo. They seem to be drawn up by the local tower operators with their idea of where the sUAV floors exist around their airport. Even though one area near me has the floor at 700 feet, it is zero on the chart which I can understand as it is an IFR flight route on takeoff on one side of the airport where the tower often sends them on an immediate left turn on release or takeoff. I need to ask the local school that does the computer testing as to if these take precedence over the Class charts if they show up around airports that use them. They came out after I took my 107 test and may be in the newer test. Don't know.
It's hard to see how those charts can take precedence over the actual airspace class that is clearly specified in Part 107 as governing operations. I'd also be interested to hear what you find out though.
 
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It's hard to see how those charts can take precedence over the actual airspace class that is clearly specified in Part 107 as governing operations. I'd also be interested to hear what you find out though.
They are too new. Looking at them, the floor maximum altitude seems to be 400 feet within their borders which seems to be the "talked about" and DJI default maximum UAV altitude. Outside their borders might be the older Class C/D of 700 feet. I don't know how they work or if they are to be used in conjunction for a waiver if you want higher than 400 feet under a 700' Class airspace, or to operate at different altitude if they say zero feet for a waiver. Just too new for me and I have a feeling they will confuse the flight instructors as well at the school.

FAA needs to do some training video online on these new map things. They seem to be growing in size and numbers. Maybe it is Class U (UAV) airspace or something? Dunno.
 
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It's hard to see how those charts can take precedence over the actual airspace class that is clearly specified in Part 107 as governing operations.
They don't take precedence. They are simply a guide for applying for a waiver / authorization inside controlled airspace that start at ground level. Nothing more.
 

sar104

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They don't take precedence. They are simply a guide for applying for a waiver / authorization inside controlled airspace that start at ground level. Nothing more.
That was my understanding too, but the posts above suggest that they are indicating restrictions within Class G airspace.
 
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From my training and knowledge, here is my input, I hope it helps:

1 - how soon do folks anticipate the system being moved to a swifter online process of applications and approvals? Some facilities are participating now, but I do not see Logan on the list: FAA Facilities participating in LAANC Initial Prototype Evaluation – Fall 2017

2 - if provided a 24-month authorization to fly in this red circle, am I still expected to call the tower and provide specifics for each flight during that two-year period? Each time you fly, you will have to contact the nearest ATC/Airport tower to notify then of your flight. More guidance can be found in Part 107 Circular, Para. 5.8: https://www.faa.gov/uas/media/AC_107-2_AFS-1_Signed.pdf

3 - What parameters are most likely to receive approval - understanding the end product needed? e.g. Max height need not be anything more than 150 feet AGL as the max height of residential property in Hingham is about 37 feet AGL. No need for over people, non-daylight, stadium, moving vehicle or other waivers. Put all of that in your request. Most likely they will state that you are restricted 300ft AGL due to the proximity of the airport.

3a - If I get a listing in Hull (to the east of the red circle, almost the entire town is in B airspace for Logan), can I use an approval for the red circle area in making my case for authorization adjacent to my regular operating area. The best thing to do is determine an area that you could possible fly in and get a waiver for that area. Each time you fly, you will have to contact the nearest ATC/Airport tower to notify then of your flight, that part is cannot be waived.

3b - am I correct that airspace B south of the red circle begins at 2000 feet and therefore wouldn't require any authorization when I film property listings there? The airspace south of the red circle is from 2000 to 7000 ft MSL. That area would not require authorization (Class G airspace), but it would require you to notify the airport because you are are within the 5mi radius. Activities, Courses, Seminars & Webinars - ALC_Content - FAA - FAASTeam - FAASafety.gov
 
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From my training and knowledge, here is my input, I hope it helps:

1 - how soon do folks anticipate the system being moved to a swifter online process of applications and approvals? Some facilities are participating now, but I do not see Logan on the list: FAA Facilities participating in LAANC Initial Prototype Evaluation – Fall 2017

2 - if provided a 24-month authorization to fly in this red circle, am I still expected to call the tower and provide specifics for each flight during that two-year period? Each time you fly, you will have to contact the nearest ATC/Airport tower to notify then of your flight. More guidance can be found in Part 107 Circular, Para. 5.8: https://www.faa.gov/uas/media/AC_107-2_AFS-1_Signed.pdf

3 - What parameters are most likely to receive approval - understanding the end product needed? e.g. Max height need not be anything more than 150 feet AGL as the max height of residential property in Hingham is about 37 feet AGL. No need for over people, non-daylight, stadium, moving vehicle or other waivers. Put all of that in your request. Most likely they will state that you are restricted 300ft AGL due to the proximity of the airport.

3a - If I get a listing in Hull (to the east of the red circle, almost the entire town is in B airspace for Logan), can I use an approval for the red circle area in making my case for authorization adjacent to my regular operating area. The best thing to do is determine an area that you could possible fly in and get a waiver for that area. Each time you fly, you will have to contact the nearest ATC/Airport tower to notify then of your flight, that part is cannot be waived.

3b - am I correct that airspace B south of the red circle begins at 2000 feet and therefore wouldn't require any authorization when I film property listings there? The airspace south of the red circle is from 2000 to 7000 ft MSL. That area would not require authorization (Class G airspace), but it would require you to notify the airport because you are are within the 5mi radius. Activities, Courses, Seminars & Webinars - ALC_Content - FAA - FAASTeam - FAASafety.gov

Thanks a ton for all that. Two updates...

Took the 107 today and passed. Yay!

The inner class B airspace I reference in the image is an eight-mile radius, so my red circle is about 7.89 miles from the airport. On the other side of the inner B line is >8 NM, so I won't have to call ATC at Logan for that. Does that sound correct?
 
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Your red circle is within Class B airspace. That particular section of the airspace is SFC (Surface) to 70 (7000 MSL). Yes, you are out of the 5 mi range but you are still in Class B airspace. The wavier allows you to operate in Class B airspace but you must notify the local ATC each time you fly. keep in mind that they can deny your flight based on current weather, traffic and other flight restrictions.
 

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