550 Pilot's lounge

[BallisticPhantom]

Thanks havasuphoto

Yup it is the 4S sorry.

So will the settings I have stated keep me safe or cause a crash?

I just posted the build in a second post. I guess we cross posted.

 

[havasuphoto]

Thanks havasuphoto

Yup it is the 4S sorry.

So will the settings I have stated keep me safe or cause a crash?

I just posted the build in a second post. I guess we cross posted.

I can't answer that.
It says in the specs the max engine size recommended is 22mm stator size. I need to know the make/model/KV rating of the engine you're running, the size and pitch of the props, and the All Up Weight at take-off, w/battery.

That Readmade orange battery is huge....very long. Are you mounting the battery on the top or bottom?
Have you take heat measurements or felt your ESC's and engines after your flight? They should be warm-but not hot. The difference is you can hold your finger on it for 5 or more seconds...that's warm. Hot will only let you touch it for a couple of seconds then burn you.

There are many parts to the puzzle....and, you have to tell us what your goals are.
I'm sure others will chime in that are far more helpful and knowledgeable than me.....just wait for others to respond.

 

[BallisticPhantom]

They are the stock Motors DJI 2212/920kv with Opto E300 ESC, DJI 9443 9.5" Stock Props. In the long run I am looking for as much duration as I can get with a conservative flight style. I fly to where I need to be and hover/slowly circle the area.

Currently I mounted the battery on the top, that can change if needed.

With my 5 min flight they were warm not hot.

I am not surprised by the battery performance I was expecting it, I just know there is some tweaking I can do to get more while I wait for new batteries.

Are you suggesting the 8k mhA are too big for this set up?

Thank you for the input

 

[havasuphoto]

They are the stock Motors DJI 2212/920kv with Opto E300 ESC, DJI 9443 9.5" Stock Props. In the long run I am looking for as much duration as I can get with a conservative flight style. I fly to where I need to be and hover/slowly circle the area.

Currently I mounted the battery on the top, that can change if needed.

With my 5 min flight they were warm not hot.

I am not surprised by the battery performance I was expecting it, I just know there is some tweaking I can do to get more while I wait for new batteries.

Are you suggesting the 8k mhA are too big for this set up?

Thank you for the input

Yes. I'm not the resident "550" expert...I'm pretty new to the aircraft, but I think you will need to run at least 10" props, and more likely 11" props. I don't know what the capabilities are for those small motors. It might be too much prop....I just don't know. That battery weighs 760 grams.
My set-up is completely different-so it's a little help to you. I have 800MM aerial mob carbon fiber arms, 28mm T-motors at 770KV, and spin 11 and 12" props. My AUW is around 3200 grams...that's a bit on the heavy side.
Also-I run my Go Pro on a Zenmouse 2D gimbal on dual rails out in front of the aircraft. I have 2 carbon fiber rails that run the length of the aircraft.....also, I have a battery try under the center of the aircraft, to keep the center of gravity low, and at the very back, I have a DJI AVL58 VTX, also on the rails, with a long antenna extension to it hangs below everything on the aircraft.

Like I said-there are limits to what your motors can handle. Get a digital fish scale that reads in Grams, and weight your aircraft. Someone posted a link about 10 pages back or so....get that one. need to know the weight you're trying to lift.

I think if you put that 8000mah battery on top, with 9.4" stock props, it probably won't get off the ground. If it does, it may be too top heavy and flip. Like I said-wait for the guys with a clue...

 

[OI Photography]

Ballistic, you *might* be able to use that 8000mAh batt, and it has excellent weight/capacity ratio (aka "energy density"), but it still might be a bit heavy for your motors/blades.

I would suggest starting with a better battery in the 5000-6000mAh range and see where that puts you in terms of flight time and weight before attempting the bigger one. Out of the 4S batteries I've tested in that range, this one is my favorite: http://www.getfpv.com/batteries/flight- ... ttery.html

If you try that battery or one similar and it still looks like you have some wiggle room in your weight capacity then you can give the 8000mAh batt a shot.

 

[BallisticPhantom]

Thanks for the input guys. I guess I will not be out too much if I order both as I can use either for my Ground station.

Any input on the battery settings I stated?

What is the max takeoff weight for the stock set up? I have not seen that stated that I recall in the 95 pages. (not the DJI suggested weight, the proven one)

I have the fish scale on order. Just awaiting its arrival.

I was considering the 5k batteries x2 like I use on my phantom (2x2400) but figured the 8K was lighter (by OL's recommendation of the 5200 mhA it would be about 270g lighter by going with the 8k.) (The 5200x2 would add about 600 mhA and 270g) I guess I need the total takeoff weight capability so I can determine which route to go.

 

[OI Photography]

Yeah I'm not sure what the real-world lifting capability is for the E300 motors/blades that came with your 550, but even with that figure we'd still need to know your current total weight before battery to know how close you are/aren't to that limit.

For the voltage limits on 4S, I have my 1st level/2nd level "loaded" voltages at 10.7/10.6 respectively, though I might be able to drop those by .1v and still be in safe operating range with that Lumenier 5200mAh. I'm not really sure how much you might need to adjust that with the Zippy's, but they've always been my worst-performing batts and have so much sag it can be hard to judge what settings are right.

EDIT: If you have enough power to lift 2x 5200mAh batts then that's when the 8000mAh would be the more efficient option in terms of weight/capacity.

 

[havasuphoto]

Thanks for the input guys. I guess I will not be out too much if I order both as I can use either for my Ground station.

Any input on the battery settings I stated?

What is the max takeoff weight for the stock set up? I have not seen that stated that I recall in the 95 pages. (not the DJI suggested weight, the proven one)

I have the fish scale on order. Just awaiting its arrival.

I was considering the 5k batteries x2 like I use on my phantom (2x2400) but figured the 8K was lighter (by OL's recommendation of the 5200 mhA it would be about 270g lighter by going with the 8k.) (The 5200x2 would add about 600 mhA and 270g) I guess I need the total takeoff weight capability so I can determine which route to go.

I believe I saw somewhere that the max recommended t/o weight of an F550 was 3200 grams. Also-I don't believe your motors will handle that load, and you will need to go to bigger props to increase lift.
Here's a program called E-calc that some of us use to determine how much lifting capability we'll have given the combination of weight, prop size, ESC, battery, etc.....
http://www.ecalc.ch/xcoptercalc.php?ecalc&lang=en

You can see there are a lot of factors to consider.

 

[havasuphoto]

Yeah I'm not sure what the real-world lifting capability is for the E300 motors/blades that came with your 550, but even with that figure we'd still need to know your current total weight before battery to know how close you are/aren't to that limit.

For the voltage limits on 4S, I have my 1st level/2nd level "loaded" voltages at 10.7/10.6 respectively, though I might be able to drop those by .1v and still be in safe operating range with that Lumenier 5200mAh. I'm not really sure how much you might need to adjust that with the Zippy's, but they've always been my worst-performing batts and have so much sag it can be hard to judge what settings are right.

Are you sure that's 4S? Sounds like 3S numbers to me?

 

[OI Photography]

Are you sure that's 4S? Sounds like 3S numbers to me?

Yup, I goofed, I think I was trying to state 13.6 and 13.7 but now I'll have to connect it to double-check

 

[BallisticPhantom]

Well I found the lightest possible camera mount. I challenge any of you to beat this one. it is less than an ounce and incredibly stable shockingly.


https://www.dropbox.com/s/9sjhdds56zy0ojo/2014-07-13 13.17.51.jpg

 

[havasuphoto]

Are you sure that's 4S? Sounds like 3S numbers to me?

Yup, I goofed, I think I was trying to state 13.6 and 13.7 but now I'll have to connect it to double-check

My 2 tests with the Readymade 4S8000 mah showed that at 14.3 volts under load, when I landed the voltage out was 14.98% with 14% remaining. I put back in 5855 Mah....
So, for me, I have the 1st level at 14.6(probably should change to 14.5)...at 14.6, I hovered for 3 full minutes before deciding to land at 14.3. Of course-this is when I turned my ESC's into an Easy Bake Oven too.
But, I don't think I will ever see anything in the 13 volt range that would allow the aircraft to fly-given what I discovered at 14.3.

 

[OI Photography]

lol I should just learn to not try to pull 4S voltages out of my head, I don't retain them as well as 3S numbers it seems

I hooked up my 550 to the PC and here's the values I've been using, both with the Lumenier 5200mAh and the RMRC 8000mAh batts, though it looks like I could drop them a pinch more when using the 8000:

When I fly with those values and land right at the 2nd-level (loaded) voltage, the 5200mAh bounces back to exactly 3.7v/cell and the 8000mAh bounces back to a little over 3.8v.

Note that's with the Wookong, but the voltages work the same as with the NAZA.

 

[havasuphoto]

Good to know....when I get mine rebuilt, I'll mess around with mine. I'm not sure if my hovering in ground effect in the Garage really translates into anything right now. Especially since I was cooking the ESC's.
So-I'm going a little higher for awhile until I see what it will hover at, voltage wise.

I've had my 2nd level warning set too low on my P2....landed it the other day(it was set at 12%), and it was at 18% or thereabouts. could not take off even with full throttle....so, I'm a bit weary of the 2nd level, until it's a voltage I can prove I can hover at, with 90% throttle.

 

[OI Photography]

I still use 10.7/10.6 as the 1st/2nd level loaded values on my Phantom, and that works out just about perfect for most of the batteries I use with it (I always let autoland descend the last few feet). A couple of the off-brand batteries I've been testing are ok with landing at 10.5v and will still bounce back to 11.1 (on a loaded Phantom), but I don't think I've flown with any I would want to set/push lower than that.

 

[havasuphoto]

My problem is the weight of my P2, at 1390 grams. If I set the 2nd level too low, even 100% throttle won't hover. every 10 flights your supposed to run the batteries down to 8%. So, I have 3 batteries, and I've recently ran 2 down, and discovered that anything really below 20% or lower, and even 100% throttle won't keep it in the air.

But-it's a kick to have 12+ minutes of flight time. Went 2004 meters today with good video, 360 degree turn with no loss or degradation of video, and flew back. And, the 3D gimbal is awesome.


FYI, just got my DJI white 30 ESC's. I have 6 sitting in front of me. Right now, they're "un-obtanium" anywhere in the U.S. Out of stock. But-I got mine
Gonna play around and figure out where I want to mount them. I'm thinking of mounting them to the "hat" on the top-in between the arms, with velcro. If I ever need to remove the hat, I'll just label the A, B, C, wires, un-plug them, remove the ESC from the top and let it hang down.
That's about the best spot I've found for them. Power wires aren't really that long-so putting it out on the arm isn't an option for me. And-I don't want to mount them on the bottom-no air flow? So, I figure the top will do-and I can check the temps easily, just to make sure I don't have another "melt-down".

 

[OI Photography]

My problem is the weight of my P2, at 1390 grams. If I set the 2nd level too low, even 100% throttle won't hover. every 10 flights your supposed to run the batteries down to 8%. So, I have 3 batteries, and I've recently ran 2 down, and discovered that anything really below 20% or lower, and even 100% throttle won't keep it in the air.

You shouldn't fly your batteries below where they will bounce back to 20% (3.7v/cell)...while it's good to fully discharge/recharge every so often on a charger, I'm not sure where you saw you should run batteries down to 8% at all, let alone while flying. Even when you do a deep discharge cycle with a charger (which is a verrrry slooow drain) you don't take it below 10%. Trying to fly at levels that low is definitely why you can't stay in the air...the voltage protection in the NAZA won't allow it if your values are set above that, and if they're set below that the battery can't deliver the power you need when the cells are that low.

 

[BallisticPhantom]

OL thanks for the screen shot. I will try your values as they are a bit more conservative than what I was going to do. I will let you know if I kill the zippy.

 

[havasuphoto]

My problem is the weight of my P2, at 1390 grams. If I set the 2nd level too low, even 100% throttle won't hover. every 10 flights your supposed to run the batteries down to 8%. So, I have 3 batteries, and I've recently ran 2 down, and discovered that anything really below 20% or lower, and even 100% throttle won't keep it in the air.

You shouldn't fly your batteries below where they will bounce back to 20% (3.7v/cell)...while it's good to fully discharge/recharge every so often on a charger, I'm not sure where you saw you should run batteries down to 8% at all, let alone while flying. Even when you do a deep discharge cycle with a charger (which is a verrrry slooow drain) you don't take it below 10%. Trying to fly at levels that low is definitely why you can't stay in the air...the voltage protection in the NAZA won't allow it if your values are set above that, and if they're set below that the battery can't deliver the power you need when the cells are that low.

On the battery page of naza p2 software it says every 10 flights run the battery down to 8%.
I normally land at 30% remaining-1st level warning...that's usually 12 minutes, more than enough flight time for what I'm doing. and, don't normally try to fly at 20%...but, you get bored while running the motors, so I would try to add full throttle and naza wouldn't let me. interesting, if I moved the right stick, the RPM would increase rapidly, but it still wouldn't hover.

I have my 2nd level auto-land set very low-because P2's are known to auto-land when they feel like it. I would never fly the aircraft into auto-land.
I have 1 more battery to cycle(I've used my lipo charger to cycle a battery once...that took forever!!)...and normally I'll fly them til 1st level, land, then run the engines until the percent or voltage I'm looking for appears on the screen from the iosd mini.
You can't cycle or discharge P2 batteries any other way....
Just thought it was interesting that after I landed, I couldn't take off again.....

 

[ElGuano]

Yep, 8% is a DJI recommendation for all P2-series to calibrate the current counter on the smart battery. I'm only going to do it if I notice a discharge discrepancy in my logs, I don't think it's worth that kind of frequent deep discharge just to measure battery health.

P2 batteries will discharge just like any other lipo, so you could build a rig running off a wattmeter to discharge them to whatever percentage you'd like. I think a few folks have them hooked up to a timer and a few 12v automotive batteries so they can discharge to ~50% for storage.