550 Pilot's lounge

havasuphoto · Jul 16, 2014

(caution-major geek speak below)

I think I may have discovered the source of my video noise/rolling lines issue on my F550/800mm. Since the gimbal on my aircraft is way out in front, the cable to the GCU is just long enough, if the GCU is mounted on top or next to the Naza.
when the original owner built this aircraft-he tapped into motor M1's positive/negative posts on the PCB board to attach the PMU V2. Bad move!! The ESC's create a pulse as they use electricity, and this pulse is carried through the PMU2 into the GCU, which is carrying the video signal from the Go Pro...(still with me-wow, that's a lot of acronyms)

So-because I'm replacing the ESC's and using the existing soldered wires off the PCB boards and attaching bullet connectors to everything, I've decided to have the PMU de-soldered from M1 and moved to the rear battery mains. I'm hoping that if I spread everything out, and around Naza, I can get the GCU close enough that the main control wire will still plug into the Zen. I wish they made longer, H3-2D gimbal wires. If anyone knows if they do-can ya let me know?
(Ok...geek speak over

I'm going to keep the EZ UHF receiver/transmitter set-up on the aircraft for now-as I don't believe it's the source of my video problem. However, I have the Futaba receiver standing by, and the 400mm antenna's on the way.....so if things don't work out well, then I'll switch from Traditional RC, to S-bus/D-bus.

BallisticPhantom · Jul 17, 2014

So with the new setting 13.9 1st and 13.7 on the 2nd warnings I flew for 18 minutes and 32 seconds when the 1st alert came on. This was a zippy 5000 20C 35C burst. Within 3 seconds of the alert coming on my on board voltage alarm also triggered. I was happy to see they were so synced.

The set up below weighs in at 1280 Grams. With battery it weighs 1749. I landed at 5 mins to check temp of ESC and voltage, it took 10 seconds, at 15 Mins for the same, then at 18 min 32 seconds. Each time the ESC and battery was hardly warm. The battery bounced back to 3.65 V after 10 min resting.

The flying was typical 50% running around the football field, figure 8's, and 50% hover.

This sounds like about the perfect setting to me what are your thoughts?

Way better than 4 minutes.

Here is the set up

F550 Motor DJI 2212/920kv with Opto E300 ESC http://www.atlantahobby.com/Store/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=18305&idcategory=875

Camera http://www.ebay.com/itm/FPV-700TVL-...ns-/281244500170?ssPageName=ADME:L:OU:US:1120

BEC http://www.ebay.com/itm/BEC-3A-12V-...-l-/281337946612?ssPageName=ADME:L:OU:US:1120

Battery http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=17819

LED http://www.ebay.com/itm/5M-Red-3528...BW-/161249251713?ssPageName=ADME:L:OU:US:1120

RX http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=24785

VTX http://ctrl.me/FlySight-TX5804-5.8ghz

Antenna's http://hobbywireless.com/58-ghz-ant...ghz-whip-rhcp-antenna-set-sma-male-p-701.html

OI Photography · Jul 17, 2014

BallisticPhantom said:
This sounds like about the perfect setting to me what are your thoughts?

It looks like you've got it dialed in pretty good....for the Zippy battery. Other batts may give you more flight time at those same settings, or they may let you knock them even lower a notch or two. Just know that if you start using most any other common batteries than Zippy you'll need to do this testing again to make sure you're getting the most out of them.

BallisticPhantom · Jul 17, 2014

I just finished the charge of this battery and it took 5304 mah. little higher than capacity...

ElGuano · Jul 18, 2014

You're really draining that battery to the bone! A few of mine are like that, they sag quite a bit and you have to pull them farther to get their rated capacity out. It's typically OK if you're just flying in the yard testing hover time, but keep in mind when you take it out farther that you may be draining them faster in real flight patterns, and in any case not leaving very much in reserve in case it takes longer to get home than anticipated (wind, etc.). I run my batteries similarly and keep tabs on "true flight" versus "max flight time" numbers so I know when to head back home. I definitely agree that you have to carefully test and track each individual battery if you're going to fly them this low. But it sounds like you've solved a few problems and got it to where you're happy with it, so nicely done.

BallisticPhantom · Jul 18, 2014

I agree El... I was not a fan when I saw so much go back in. I typically fly about 300' away and if I hit LVW and need to make it back... But knowing that and knowing that this is still pretty bare (no Gear/Gimbal/ Mount) It gives me some things to think about and a bare bones config to know what I can do.

I would like to see about 15 mins for this rig fully loaded. If my landing gear and gimbal add 500g that puts me at 1750g airframe leaving 650g (recommended max weight) for battery. If I were to try lifting the 8000 mha or a dual battery set up it would be over the mac recommended weight of 2400g.

I know DJI is pretty conservative with there lifting calculations. With the stock motors what is the max lift you would recommend? I am just going to edge over the recommendation due to batteries, thoughts?

dougsnash · Jul 19, 2014

Hi guys. Whew, finally made it to the end of the lounge list, 99 pages and growing. Wow, what a source of information. Let me introduce myself, I'm Doug and I live in Canada. I am a licensed private pilot with my own plane (full scale FPV) and played around with RC planes about 12 years ago but never really stuck with it.

I received my FW550 airframe kit today and despite knowing I'll have to take it appart again to install the electronics, I already have it assembled. Unfortunately, the airframe is all I have for now. My original intention was to get a Phantom FC40 and learn to fly it then slowly upgrade to a functional FW550. So much for good plans. While the FC40 is on the slow boat from China, I have the remainder of the necessary major parts to get the FW550 flyable and hopefully most of them will be here sometime next week. I've chosen the E300 tuned kit from DJI as the starting point for the propulsion system and a NAZA V2 to go with it. I have a Neewar gear set which has a basic gimbal included but it will need some tweaking to get it functional as it appears to use traditional servos instead of brushless motors. For a receiver I have an older JR six channel which I plan to use for the time being and will likely upgrade to a Futaba 10ch at a later date. I have a RMRC 4S 8000 mAh on order (although I see you guys saying it is too heavy for the stock 550). I chose this monster battery because I hope to eventually upgrade to over-sized arms and the E600 tuned system at some later point so will a) be able to lift the battery weight, and b) need the extra capacity. I still need to get a Li-Po charger and have not had much success in figuring out what I need/want vs what I can afford. For a camera I am going to be using a Contour Roam that I already have and probably wait until the new Go-pro comes out in the fall before figuring out whether its worth the money.

For now I am not planning on any additional bells and whistles like iOSD, Zenmuse, or much in the way of FPV until I get some flights on this beast (and get the credit card paid off again).

Thanks to all of you more experienced builders and flyers for patiently explaining so much to us newbies.

Doug M

havasuphoto · Jul 19, 2014

BallisticPhantom said:
I agree El... I was not a fan when I saw so much go back in. I typically fly about 300' away and if I hit LVW and need to make it back... But knowing that and knowing that this is still pretty bare (no Gear/Gimbal/ Mount) It gives me some things to think about and a bare bones config to know what I can do.

I would like to see about 15 mins for this rig fully loaded. If my landing gear and gimbal add 500g that puts me at 1750g airframe leaving 650g (recommended max weight) for battery. If I were to try lifting the 8000 mha or a dual battery set up it would be over the mac recommended weight of 2400g.

I know DJI is pretty conservative with there lifting calculations. With the stock motors what is the max lift you would recommend? I am just going to edge over the recommendation due to batteries, thoughts?

I believe the max AUW of the F550 is around 3200 grams. Mine is the exception to the rule, because I have 800mm arms, and much larger engines and props. I'm at 3200 grams.

I fly the RCMC Orange battery, at 760grams, no problem. However, it's 4S-so I don't believe the E300 will work. Also, the E600 is a 6S based system....so it won't work there either.

there are a ton of engine options you can go with....most are the same or cheaper than the E300. Saving money on engines, props, or batteries is something you don't want to do. You can get the DJI 30A ESC fairly cheap, at around $20/each. They will plug and play with Naza. Also-you can get really good powerful engines for a little over $30 each.
Props? Plan on around $12/ea for decent E-Graup 11X5's. they're stiff, nearly carbon fiber, and surprisingly light-when compared to APC or Gemfan(avoid Gemfan-can't balance the hubs).

Then, it just becomes a numbers game on how much thrust you put out, and what throttle setting that dictates the amount of lift you produce, your aircraft's weight, etc, that will give you X amount of flight time.

You can purchase a RTF F550 from the link posted several pages back at Heli-Pal, for pretty cheap. That will get you flying. From there.....get your credit card ready..because you will always be upgrading.
With the FC40 or the Phantoms, there is virtually no upgrading. They're nice to learn to fly.....but, the F550 is actually easier to fly and more stable. And-if you get the 800mm extended arms, it's ridiculously stable, even in gusty winds. Longer arms means more stability, and you can run bigger props.

ladykate · Jul 19, 2014

dougsnash said:
Hi guys. Whew, finally made it to the end of the lounge list, 99 pages and growing. Wow, what a source of information. Let me introduce myself, I'm Doug and I live in Canada. I am a licensed private pilot with my own plane (full scale FPV) and played around with RC planes about 12 years ago but never really stuck with it.

Welcome!

Post some video of your flights (use a minute or so - long videos of spinning around aren't very interesting. ;-})

Well - if you want to do RC planes, you will find the technology has also jumped ahead. There are good options out there. I have been flying both and enjoying both.

dougsnash · Jul 20, 2014

ladykate said:
Post some video of your flights (use a minute or so - long videos of spinning around aren't very interesting. ;-})

Okay Ladykate, as requested, here is a quick video from tonight's flight in my non-multicopter filming platform (my Zenith CH-701). Sorry for the terrible video quality but it was just shot with my cell phone through a dirty windshield. The effort was more of an exercise in figuring out Moviemaker than it was in providing a decent video.

http://www.zenith.aero/video/flying-july-19-2014

Doug M

Uncle Meat · Jul 20, 2014

BallisticPhantom said:
I would like to see about 15 mins for this rig fully loaded. If my landing gear and gimbal add 500g that puts me at 1750g airframe leaving 650g (recommended max weight) for battery. If I were to try lifting the 8000 mha or a dual battery set up it would be over the mac recommended weight of 2400g.

havasuphoto said:
I believe the max AUW of the F550 is around 3200 grams. Mine is the exception to the rule, because I have 800mm arms, and much larger engines and props. I'm at 3200 grams.

Just to clarify. Max takeoff weight for a stock original (Non-E300 equipped) F550 is 2400 grams. Not sure what it is when equipped with E300.

With a 6400mAh Onyx my current AUW is 2190. I get about 12:30 of flight time with the battery reading 11.1v 10 minutes after flight. If I run my Onyx 8000mAh I can push it out to 14 minutes.

U.M.

Got rid of the Iris Ariel "bat" legs and went with a set of 'El Cheapo tall plastic legs. I was tired of seeing those old legs in frame when the camera was pointed straight down. The drinking straw hanging off the end of the arm houses the 400mm Futaba receiver antenna. Keeps it at a right angle to the other one which hangs straight down from the bottom plate.

havasuphoto · Jul 21, 2014

OK...2400 grams sounds a bit lite. But-I don't think mine is an F550 anymore with the 800mm arms.

I just to my 400mm Futaba antenna's...but, I plan on flying with the EZ UHF after the install of the new ESC's, just so I can see if my "fix" of moving the PMU2 off M1 and onto the battery main, gets rid of my video interference. I'll also be making the maiden flight with the VTX and gimbal/go pro off the ship.

I was going to run the 400mm antenna down the landing gear legs(not sure of the brand-but they're very light)...I haven't tried them yet on my set-up as it's being worked on by someone else. Like the idea of running 1 antenna down the arm though. However-my arms are CF...will that make a difference?

What kind of range are you getting with that set-up? Have you tried mounting the 2nd antenna opposite the 1st on the other landing gear leg-like across from each other? I need 10+ minutes flight time-and 2000M, minimum. That's my goal. OH, and I also need 50mph in Attitude mode(I've gone 51 w/o exceeding 30 degree's).

Uncle Meat · Jul 22, 2014

havasuphoto said:
OK...2400 grams sounds a bit lite. But-I don't think mine is an F550 anymore with the 800mm arms.

I was referring to a stock F550. You've modified yours so that changes a lot of things of course. Are you still running stock DJI motor's & props on those 800mm CF arms?

havasuphoto said:
I was going to run the 400mm antenna down the landing gear legs(not sure of the brand-but they're very light)...I haven't tried them yet on my set-up as it's being worked on by someone else. Like the idea of running 1 antenna down the arm though. However-my arms are CF...will that make a difference?

It might... only a range check will confirm or not. However if it is mounted to the underside of the arm and not surrounded 360 degrees by CF I would think you'll be okay.

havasuphoto said:
What kind of range are you getting with that set-up? Have you tried mounting the 2nd antenna opposite the 1st on the other landing gear leg-like across from each other? I need 10+ minutes flight time-and 2000M, minimum. That's my goal. OH, and I also need 50mph in Attitude mode(I've gone 51 w/o exceeding 30 degree's).

I've been out to just under 2000m with the new antenna and still maintained full control. Previously with just the stock Futaba antennas I was only able to get around 1000m. As far as antenna placement is concerned Futaba recommends the antennas remain at a 90° angle from each other for best reception. Can't help you with the time aloft and speed requirements. You're flying a modified F550 so the rest of my setup and its specs are moot.

U.M.

havasuphoto · Jul 22, 2014

I have 2814-10-770Kv T-motors on it now, and will be running either 11X5 or 12.4.5 props on 4S.
Sooooo, I'm thinking the "weak spot" for the stock F550 may have been the arms?

Good to know you doubled your range with the longer antenna's. The stock one's were way too short, and this was an easy fix.
I'm going to run the EZ UHF system first, because I'm curious as to it's range. But, if it effect my FPV video, it's outta there, and I'll put the Futaba in straight away.

I believe my engine/prop combination will allow me to carry a total of around 9 lbs!!! yea, that's a lot. I don't plan on adding anything more to my F550 right now, so 3200auw is good.

When I hold it by the arms, and bounce it around-I see zero flex or movement in the top or bottom plates. That's about as much "load testing" as I can physically do. I would rather have it break while I'm shaking it, then have it hit a gust of wind and snap an arm-it's solid.
The landing gear is probably the weakest link. It's extremely light/cheap, clip-on job. It gets the job done...but if I had a hard landing, would probably crumple fairly easily with all the weight. Also-because the landing gear is so flimsy, landing and taking off from sloped ground isn't an issue.
You can actually fly the aircraft before the skids leave the ground-so you can tilt it into the slope(slope take-off technique), and do the same for landing-so rolling it is not possible.

Hope to have everything soldered and connected this week, for testing. But-my 550 guy is busy, so it may take awhile.
I trust him more than myself. I haven't held a soldering iron in over 45 years!!! Yah-I was in Boy Scouts the last time I held one......so, me-soldering iron-electronics...not a good idea.

ElGuano · Jul 22, 2014

Hello good 550ers,

After being allowed to crash in your luxurious lounge the last few months with my f450, I am finally breaking out the plates and starting my f550 build.

This one may take a bit longer to complete as I expect to be parts-constrained for a bit. But I'm building it with some extra oomph in mind, if only so it can haul around the lights I have:

Let the good times roll!

ElGuano · Jul 24, 2014

Here's the start of the F550...this is just a test assembly to serve as proof-of-concept on a spare arm.

Hopefully the large circumference of the ring isn't going to detract from flight times too much....

havasuphoto · Jul 24, 2014

I'm curious-why would you want the fancy light patterns to shine up on the props? Is it possible to make viewable persistent patterns? I don't know what the term is-but what I'm thinking of is a light pattern that produces something legible, that persists because of the brightness, to the user's eye's.

I've followed your threads on these Neopixel lights....very cool. But, way too complicated for my Pea Brain.

Why not go with the 800MM arms? Lots more room for lights. can run bigger props, batteries, etc.

Eventually-I will light up my F800. But-I will probably keep it simple, with a single white strip on the front, 2 blue strips, then 3 red strips on the back. I'd like the option of turning them on/off with the remote. But-I'd also like the option of having them pulse in a pattern....and that's where things get real complicated.

I've got until Christmas to figure it out though...so I'll just follow your build and see if I can glean any information that may help me.
also-is there an advantage to running the 5V LED's Vs. say the 12V automotive style LED's?

I'll be running 4S, and already have a JST plug coming off the power board for a BEC..and, I've got a Y-adapter plug for the receiver....was thinking I could power the lights through the receiver? Or-at least use the "control" signal to turn them on/off.

Have you decided on engines/props/ESC's-whether you'll run 3S or 4S?

OI Photography · Jul 24, 2014

E600 motors + 12" props on a standard length 550 arm...should have a lot of lift to work with, but I'm picturing it looking like a hatchback with huge offroad jeep tires

Better yet...do a coaxial setup with those :twisted:

havasuphoto · Jul 24, 2014

Why couldn't you do a co-axial set-up with dual motors? 12 motors!!!
Yea-I know Naza and the other flight controllers only do 8 motors max....but, having 12 motors in co-axial would be very cool!!

E600+12's+6S....he won't be landing for awhile. that thing would be all props.

ElGuano · Jul 24, 2014

havasuphoto said:
I'm curious-why would you want the fancy light patterns to shine up on the props? Is it possible to make viewable persistent patterns? I don't know what the term is-but what I'm thinking of is a light pattern that produces something legible, that persists because of the brightness, to the user's eye's.

The picture is confusing, sorry about that. This is just a test-fit. The actual mount will point the LEDs DOWNWARD so they'll be visible when the hex is in the air.

BUT, since you mentioned shining UP into the props, that's a lighting mod I REALLY want to do. Why? So this can be visible in the air:

I'll have to find or paint white 12-13" props though...so that may be a projec for another day.

havasuphoto said:
Why not go with the 800MM arms? Lots more room for lights. can run bigger props, batteries, etc.

I actually want the smallest possible config I can manage. 800-1000s really look and sound amazing, but I'm travel constrained as it is, and I can't even get my F450 out of the house most of the time. All my travel flying is going to be with the Phantoms, and those are big enough as-is. If I had the space on the frame for everything, I'd have installed this on the 450. But I have some A2 electronics projects lined up in the (far) future so I want to make sure I have room on one of my MRs for that honkin' IMU module.

havasuphoto said:
I've got until Christmas to figure it out though...so I'll just follow your build and see if I can glean any information that may help me.
also-is there an advantage to running the 5V LED's Vs. say the 12V automotive style LED's?

Hmm, not to my knowledge. Just availability and voltage tolerance of automotive-class drivers I'd say (the 5v ones I'm using are quite picky, 5.5v is great but 6v will burn them out). Since you're running a big battery you'll need to step down the voltage either way.

havasuphoto said:
I'll be running 4S, and already have a JST plug coming off the power board for a BEC..and, I've got a Y-adapter plug for the receiver....was thinking I could power the lights through the receiver? Or-at least use the "control" signal to turn them on/off.

Depends on the setup. I prefer to electrically isolate "important" stuff like FC, RX, GPS. LEDs, depending on brightness and number on a strip, can be quite power-intensive, like 3-6w, so I wouldn't want to risk a brownout or damage to the RX. I'd recommend a separate circuit for the LEDs unless you know exactly what the load is. Control signal through RX is fine, that's the way it's got to work if you want to switch on and off with the TX.