550 Pilot's lounge
- Thread starter OI Photography
- Start date
Yea-it was a bit spendy, but worth it. I keep it on the monitor/receiver with the goggles plugged into the monitor, and can feel it in the blind and move it around-works pretty well....FangsCPO said:
w/o it, I can only go about 1000M or so before it starts to break up, and that's at 50M....I could go higher, just don't like to be up too high.
EDIT:
A friend of mine said that he has 6 12X4.5 props!!! So, I'm going over this morning to pick those up. IF, I can get them balanced, 1st flight should be Monday morning(winds permitting), at Area 53
first 2 flights sucessful....!
I'm lucky enough to have a 3 car, "boat-deep" garage, with A/C. So, Today I installed the APC 12X4.5" props. I noticed that the prop hubs on the APC's were 3.8", not 1/4" like the E-Graup's and Gemfans-interesting. Also interesting; I measure my friends Tarot 28 series 700kv prop shaft-and his threads start at 1/4", not like mine, which start at almost 3/8".
Also-the Tarot prop holders holes lined up perfectly with mine....so, now I just need to find those prop holders.
Anyways-back to my "flights". I had the aircraft hooked up to Naza-did the motor test, and everything rotated correctly. I was in my office, and noticed that from idle, to 50% throttle-all I got was idle speed. Sooooo....have to find someone to reset the throttle settings on my ESC's from the receiver. You can explain it to me in finite detail-but I'm still not capable of doing it.....so, I need to find someone. And my friend doesn't know how to do it either.
So, out to the Garage I go-move the car, do the compass dance, and up she goes-we're hovering. It's a bit wobbly, but I have 9 GPS satellites and am in GPS mode. No way am I turning this thing, or putting it in Attitude mode. Learned the hard way that my garage is not "flight friendly"...long story...anyways-just kept it centered hovering.
1 battery was pretty well used up before I started-so it only lasted about 4 minutes or so.
I set my 1st level battery warning at 14.6-and landed at that. Pulled the 1st battery out-40% remaining, 15.28volts(wow-been down this road before).
So, 1st level is 14.6 and 2nd level is 13.8. Put fresh battery in and started hovering. now I'm trying to adjust my gains(I have a knob for p/r adjustment)...but, that's hard to do when you need both hands to hold the aircraft stable(it's still wobbling). Couldn't seem to make enough of an adjustment 1 way or the other to notice a difference-I'll play with that later-just concentrate on hovering.
After 8:30, 1st level warning flashes(14.6). So-I decide to pick an arbitrary point to land, before auto-land kick in, of 14.30.
3 minutes go by, before it dropped from 14.6 to 14.3. Landed and checked the battery-it's at 14%-14.98(and 14% and 15.03 after resting). Now that's more like it...that's 11:30 seconds hovering in the garage.
Now here's where it get interesting(I hope you keep reading)....I checked the engine temps, and they were all at around 120 deg's....not bad. BUT-I checked my ESC temps, and one was at 186 degree's!!!! Another was at 151 degree's!!! Now that's downright hot!!
I can understand though that just hovering left the ESC basically with no air flowing over them(they're in the center of the "ring")......BUT-I still think there's more going on here.
So, in conclusion; I think the APC 12X4.5 is too much prop for my 30 amp ESC's to handle.....??? I wonder if I was in forward flight-would they be that warm. and to be honest-I've only even checked them one other time and they were around 130 deg's.
So-I don't know if that's "normal" or not?
The good news is-no prop slippage(I had reference marks)....also, I did not use the extra washer's I got, as the hub on the APC prop seemed thick enough. I was able to turn the wrench until they were snug, then 1/2 turn, and I was out of threads-done.
So, I need to get my throttle settings in the ESC's reset.....and, I think I need to try the 11X5's E-graups.
EDIT: charged battery number 2, they're both ReadyMade 4S 8000Mah 35C's, and it took 5855 mah. So-coming out of the aircraft it had 14% @15 volts....why can't I fly an 8000mah battery-and put back in something like 7000mah?
Heck-I could have flown a 6500mah battery if I only used 5855mah....what's the "secret" to getting the amps out of these packs?
I'm lucky enough to have a 3 car, "boat-deep" garage, with A/C. So, Today I installed the APC 12X4.5" props. I noticed that the prop hubs on the APC's were 3.8", not 1/4" like the E-Graup's and Gemfans-interesting. Also interesting; I measure my friends Tarot 28 series 700kv prop shaft-and his threads start at 1/4", not like mine, which start at almost 3/8".
Also-the Tarot prop holders holes lined up perfectly with mine....so, now I just need to find those prop holders.
Anyways-back to my "flights". I had the aircraft hooked up to Naza-did the motor test, and everything rotated correctly. I was in my office, and noticed that from idle, to 50% throttle-all I got was idle speed. Sooooo....have to find someone to reset the throttle settings on my ESC's from the receiver. You can explain it to me in finite detail-but I'm still not capable of doing it.....so, I need to find someone. And my friend doesn't know how to do it either.
So, out to the Garage I go-move the car, do the compass dance, and up she goes-we're hovering. It's a bit wobbly, but I have 9 GPS satellites and am in GPS mode. No way am I turning this thing, or putting it in Attitude mode. Learned the hard way that my garage is not "flight friendly"...long story...anyways-just kept it centered hovering.
1 battery was pretty well used up before I started-so it only lasted about 4 minutes or so.
I set my 1st level battery warning at 14.6-and landed at that. Pulled the 1st battery out-40% remaining, 15.28volts(wow-been down this road before).
So, 1st level is 14.6 and 2nd level is 13.8. Put fresh battery in and started hovering. now I'm trying to adjust my gains(I have a knob for p/r adjustment)...but, that's hard to do when you need both hands to hold the aircraft stable(it's still wobbling). Couldn't seem to make enough of an adjustment 1 way or the other to notice a difference-I'll play with that later-just concentrate on hovering.
After 8:30, 1st level warning flashes(14.6). So-I decide to pick an arbitrary point to land, before auto-land kick in, of 14.30.
3 minutes go by, before it dropped from 14.6 to 14.3. Landed and checked the battery-it's at 14%-14.98(and 14% and 15.03 after resting). Now that's more like it...that's 11:30 seconds hovering in the garage.
Now here's where it get interesting(I hope you keep reading)....I checked the engine temps, and they were all at around 120 deg's....not bad. BUT-I checked my ESC temps, and one was at 186 degree's!!!! Another was at 151 degree's!!! Now that's downright hot!!
I can understand though that just hovering left the ESC basically with no air flowing over them(they're in the center of the "ring")......BUT-I still think there's more going on here.
So, in conclusion; I think the APC 12X4.5 is too much prop for my 30 amp ESC's to handle.....??? I wonder if I was in forward flight-would they be that warm. and to be honest-I've only even checked them one other time and they were around 130 deg's.
So-I don't know if that's "normal" or not?
The good news is-no prop slippage(I had reference marks)....also, I did not use the extra washer's I got, as the hub on the APC prop seemed thick enough. I was able to turn the wrench until they were snug, then 1/2 turn, and I was out of threads-done.
So, I need to get my throttle settings in the ESC's reset.....and, I think I need to try the 11X5's E-graups.
EDIT: charged battery number 2, they're both ReadyMade 4S 8000Mah 35C's, and it took 5855 mah. So-coming out of the aircraft it had 14% @15 volts....why can't I fly an 8000mah battery-and put back in something like 7000mah?
Heck-I could have flown a 6500mah battery if I only used 5855mah....what's the "secret" to getting the amps out of these packs?
T8FGS-Does anyone have a profile for the F550 for the Futaba T8FGS they would be willing to share to help get me started. I no absolutely ZERO regarding the programming of radios since both my P2 and F550 both came as kits. My F550 came with a Devo 7 which has poor range. I would like to use my Futaba with the F550. Any help is appreciated.
Joe
Joe
joeg1717 said:
Ianwood's profile works fine. You must use a Futaba rx (the Devo 7 rx doesn't work with Futaba). Ian has put the full instructions on the first post of the longish thread about it. viewtopic.php?f=19&t=8358&hilit=t8fg
Skip the P2 part and go to how to download the profile and upload it to your Futaba. Bind your tx and rx and you should be able to start it up (be sure to follow all the instructions - which include checking settings with the administrative assistant before using).
If you try to go your own route, be sure to double check the failsafe - with the Futaba, the rx will keep sending data to the NAZA even if it loses tx signal. The NAZA won't go to failsafe. Ian has programmed one of the workarounds into the profile (there are also other ways).
Re: first 2 flights sucessful....!
I think that's expected behavior, when you're in GPS or ATTI mode and sitting on the ground before launch, the NAZA will just deliver a set idle RPM until you give it more than 50% to take off.
However, if you really want to go through calibrating the ESC's to your throttle it's not that difficult. First you'll need to determine which individual channel output on your receiver is the throttle...calibrating involves connecting each ESC to those pins on your receiver instead of their assigned port on the NAZA, and just powering up that ESC and the receiver only. You'll do that with each ESC one by one and run each of them through a power-on and setting of the range of your throttle stick (I've got a YT vid somewhere with instructions for that if you decide to go that route).
havasuphoto said:
I think that's expected behavior, when you're in GPS or ATTI mode and sitting on the ground before launch, the NAZA will just deliver a set idle RPM until you give it more than 50% to take off.
However, if you really want to go through calibrating the ESC's to your throttle it's not that difficult. First you'll need to determine which individual channel output on your receiver is the throttle...calibrating involves connecting each ESC to those pins on your receiver instead of their assigned port on the NAZA, and just powering up that ESC and the receiver only. You'll do that with each ESC one by one and run each of them through a power-on and setting of the range of your throttle stick (I've got a YT vid somewhere with instructions for that if you decide to go that route).
Re: first 2 flights sucessful....!
Also-never had the top off before; do you need to remove the GPS antenna, or can I just remove the top and move it to the side?
I as "flying" in the garage-up to 6 feet, and the throttle never changed; at or below 1/2 throttle, and it went to idle quickly and I had to catch it with more throttle-so I don't think this is normal behavior.
I also want to check my engine alignment with a framers square and a bubble level to make sure they're plumb. There is no reference mark or indentation when you have the exact orientation-so it was more by line of sight, a ruler between an existing engine that was plumb, and a bubble level. I suspect 1 or 2 are not plumb, and this will give me a wobble that can't be removed by adjust gains.
I'll run another test this afternoon provided the E-graup 6mm to 8mm adapters arrive; again in my garage. I'm not taking it out into the real world until I get it more stable and get this throttle thing figured out.
Thanks
OH-and do you think 186 deg's on the heat shrink of an ESC is too hot?
Out the door to fly the P2
Yea-I'll probably need the youtube video. I have the EZ UHF receiver-it's marked "traditional" in the setting on naza-as compared to D-bus or PPM. Also-need to know which soldier pad? on the ESC is throttle? There's 3...I think 1 is black, 1 is red, and 1 is another color.OI Photography said:
Also-never had the top off before; do you need to remove the GPS antenna, or can I just remove the top and move it to the side?
I as "flying" in the garage-up to 6 feet, and the throttle never changed; at or below 1/2 throttle, and it went to idle quickly and I had to catch it with more throttle-so I don't think this is normal behavior.
I also want to check my engine alignment with a framers square and a bubble level to make sure they're plumb. There is no reference mark or indentation when you have the exact orientation-so it was more by line of sight, a ruler between an existing engine that was plumb, and a bubble level. I suspect 1 or 2 are not plumb, and this will give me a wobble that can't be removed by adjust gains.
I'll run another test this afternoon provided the E-graup 6mm to 8mm adapters arrive; again in my garage. I'm not taking it out into the real world until I get it more stable and get this throttle thing figured out.
Thanks
OH-and do you think 186 deg's on the heat shrink of an ESC is too hot?
Out the door to fly the P2
Something is horribly wrong with my set-up. I got the prop adapter in for the 11X5 E-Graup props Today, installed them, put the 4S 8000Mah battery on(and yes, it's set to 4S in Naza)-went out to the garage and did a hover for just 1 minutes. Very smooth and stable.
Checked the front ESC, 200 degree's!!! What the hell is going on here!! Checked the others and there were around 160 degree's or so.....just to dam hot!!
There is something definitely not right with my set-up. It's grounded until further notice.
I may have to replace all the ESC's and put them on the arms.....going to be difficult with 800mm Aerial Mob arms-there's really no place for them to go.
I've got 1 more thing I'm going to try; I'm charging up the 3S 8000mah battery. When it's charged, I'm going to change back to 3S in Naza, and do a 1 minute hover test and see what the temp is on the ESC.
So, getting the throttle set correctly is the least of my problems right now.
Checked the front ESC, 200 degree's!!! What the hell is going on here!! Checked the others and there were around 160 degree's or so.....just to dam hot!!
There is something definitely not right with my set-up. It's grounded until further notice.
I may have to replace all the ESC's and put them on the arms.....going to be difficult with 800mm Aerial Mob arms-there's really no place for them to go.
I've got 1 more thing I'm going to try; I'm charging up the 3S 8000mah battery. When it's charged, I'm going to change back to 3S in Naza, and do a 1 minute hover test and see what the temp is on the ESC.
So, getting the throttle set correctly is the least of my problems right now.
As has been said many times, you need to calibrate the ESCs. Do that before chasing other problems. Overwork of the motors could be an issue if the ESCs were out of whack. Thus hotter ESCs.
You may have multiple problems but fix the known one first. It may be the choke point.
BTW: If your friend doesn't know how to calibrate an ESC, then just go down to the local hobby shop. The one on the strip mall with the nice looking salesperson. She seems to know a lot about flying. I'm sure she has calibrated an ESC before (they have to be done on RC airplanes, too). It is the same thing only you do it for all the ESCs instead of just one like on an RC plane.
You may have multiple problems but fix the known one first. It may be the choke point.
BTW: If your friend doesn't know how to calibrate an ESC, then just go down to the local hobby shop. The one on the strip mall with the nice looking salesperson. She seems to know a lot about flying. I'm sure she has calibrated an ESC before (they have to be done on RC airplanes, too). It is the same thing only you do it for all the ESCs instead of just one like on an RC plane.
Re: first 2 flights sucessful....!
When we get to the point of calibrating ESC's, you don't have to go through all that...you just unplug them from the M1-M6 ports on the NAZA, then plug in to the receiver.
For now though I agree the heat is something you need to figure out before proceeding. Are you sure the ESC's are rated for 4S? I don't recall which ones you're using and even at 30A or more they may not be rated for the higher voltage. If they are rated properly then we can try calibrating.
havasuphoto said:
When we get to the point of calibrating ESC's, you don't have to go through all that...you just unplug them from the M1-M6 ports on the NAZA, then plug in to the receiver.
For now though I agree the heat is something you need to figure out before proceeding. Are you sure the ESC's are rated for 4S? I don't recall which ones you're using and even at 30A or more they may not be rated for the higher voltage. If they are rated properly then we can try calibrating.
Yea, about them-they're not willing to even touch a multi-copter....no kidding. Even getting them to soldier on some XT-60 connectors to my giant 4S battery was a struggle.ladykate said:
I can call and ask...but, I'm pretty sure they won't touch my aircraft. I'm just SOL.
As for Calibrating the ESC's....what now?
Someone on the other forum told me I have to cut the red wire going to the ESC's because I'm running too much voltage or some such thing.
At this point-this aircraft is beyond my scope of knowing what to do or how to fix it.
This was supposed to be a simple-change the engines, go to 4S, add props and fly. But-it's turned into "work".../nightmare.
Once I'm done testing with the 3S in the garage, I think I'm going to put it in the spare bedroom and forget about it for awhile.
I've spent enough money on it-and it does nothing fun for me.
time to move on I guess. Maybe look at selling it.
Had a blast with the P2 Today......
Re: first 2 flights sucessful....!
So...right now, it's Rock>>>>>>>>>>Me<<<<<<<<<<<<Hard Place
According to the previous Owner, they are 30C simon K flashed and can handle 3S and 4S.......OI Photography said:
So...right now, it's Rock>>>>>>>>>>Me<<<<<<<<<<<<Hard Place
havasuphoto said:
Don't ask them to touch it. For that matter, just bring the rx, a battery, the ESC hooked to a motor and your tx down. You just hook the ESC to the battery, the rx connection on the ESC to your rx throttle port, make sure the rx is bound to the tx. Fire it up and do the calibration. Don't even tell them it is off a multicopter. Buy a 2mm screwdriver or something to get their attention. ;-}
Go back and do the others.
Don't cut any wires!
If I do all that, I might as well just rebuild the whole thing.ladykate said:
Here's something interesting; reset back to 3S and put the 3S8000mah battery on the aircraft. Hovered for 2 minutes past 1st level warning, landed before auto-land, flight time=9 minutes!! ESC temp=130 deg's.
The throttle is still the same; idle til 50% or so....but, I'm surprised the aircraft actually hovered. These are bigger stator motors, and I would have thought they needed more battery power. Go figure.
So-for now, it's a 3S aircraft. Until I can find someone with a clue, or buy one.
I really think the smart thing for me to do, is charge up all 3 of the 3S8000 mah batteries I have, and fly the crap out of it til it crashes or I run out of batteries. Either way-I'll be happy. Probably be looking for a new Go Pro 3 Black(not plus)...so, if you're thinking of selling-just wait. If I auger in, I'll need one
If it crashes, I can rebuild!!!
In the mean time-I'll try and find someone with a clue, that can help me "convert" this over to 4S.
Someone told me the Simon K re-flashed ESC are notorious for over-heating?
OK, Over-heating is when something gets too hot...like 150 or 160 deg's.....
I have an Easy Bake Oven!! That thing got to 200 deg's. That's called Baking!!!
If you can touch it, but not for long-that's over-heating.
If you can cook on it-that's baking
Let's assume, with my set-up that I want to replace my ESC's. which ESC's should I go with. I think I need ESC with a BEC, to run 4S the way my system is wired.
Going to pop the top off my F800 and see what it looks like inside-instead of trying to fly it anymore-even on the 3S.
It was still wobbling on the 3S-so something tells me that the ESC's are not timed right, and we already know the throttle points are off and need to be set. So it's possible that they're all out of whack.
And it only takes 1 ESC to take a "nap" for the aircraft to flip...I don't want to destroy $300 worth of engines and $70 worth of props, by being a dumba$$.
I'm smart enough to know when something is not right.....so, I'm taking a step back and opening her up.
I've e-mailed the local hobby club to see if they know of anyone that has a clue on ESC and DJI stuff...I'm hoping if I Network through enough people, I'll find 1 guy in this town that can help me.
Going to pop the top off my F800 and see what it looks like inside-instead of trying to fly it anymore-even on the 3S.
It was still wobbling on the 3S-so something tells me that the ESC's are not timed right, and we already know the throttle points are off and need to be set. So it's possible that they're all out of whack.
And it only takes 1 ESC to take a "nap" for the aircraft to flip...I don't want to destroy $300 worth of engines and $70 worth of props, by being a dumba$$.
I'm smart enough to know when something is not right.....so, I'm taking a step back and opening her up.
I've e-mailed the local hobby club to see if they know of anyone that has a clue on ESC and DJI stuff...I'm hoping if I Network through enough people, I'll find 1 guy in this town that can help me.
Think this got hot;
And, there's 1 more like that....it just keeps getting better.....
Really glad I took the top off and had a look around....those ESC's are toast!! So now, I need to figure out which ESC's I need to buy, that will offer me the most performance, and be the easiest to install. I get the 2-wire plug thing into Naza, M1, M2, etc....that's easy to figure out.
What I don't want to do is DE-solder the main ESC leads from the bottom PCB. So, can I just cut the wires, and splice/solder onto the new ESC's and go from there?
I tell ya...I'm so lucky!! I was going to go out and fly 3 batteries(3S) this morning. But-it was too windy and I had other things that needed doing. So, the more I thought, the more I thought I should at least take the top off and have a look around. Glad I did...I still have all my pieces and parts. Not a box full of 100's of little pieces
More pictures of the inside here;
http://s67.photobucket.com/user/iflyphi/library/F550-800
Did I mention-I hate hot glue!!!!
And, there's 1 more like that....it just keeps getting better.....
Really glad I took the top off and had a look around....those ESC's are toast!! So now, I need to figure out which ESC's I need to buy, that will offer me the most performance, and be the easiest to install. I get the 2-wire plug thing into Naza, M1, M2, etc....that's easy to figure out.
What I don't want to do is DE-solder the main ESC leads from the bottom PCB. So, can I just cut the wires, and splice/solder onto the new ESC's and go from there?
I tell ya...I'm so lucky!! I was going to go out and fly 3 batteries(3S) this morning. But-it was too windy and I had other things that needed doing. So, the more I thought, the more I thought I should at least take the top off and have a look around. Glad I did...I still have all my pieces and parts. Not a box full of 100's of little pieces
More pictures of the inside here;
http://s67.photobucket.com/user/iflyphi/library/F550-800
Did I mention-I hate hot glue!!!!
I see you aren't using the NAZA V2. Could that be a reason for your over heating of the ESCs? Just taking a guess on this.
I was told that was Naza V2 when I bought it...am I missing something? I read the ad again and it says V2 PMU....so, what am I missing?FangsCPO said:
Also-someone recommended the DJI 30A ESC's.....are they any good? Do I need a BEC?
havasuphoto said:
Don't need a BEC, that's what the PMU does for you (regulates and feeds power to the NAZA+receiver).
The NAZA you have looks like a v1, like the ones that came in the P1's before the 1.1.1...it works just like a v2 if you have the latest firmware on it (4.02).
