400 Foot Altitude Quiz

[StumbleBee]

Flying over the bridge at 400ft is a VIOLATION.

Perhaps in some technical splitting hairs sort of way. If I demand a jury trial, will I be convicted? I think not.

PS I totally agree with everyone here who says to use common sense and err on the side of safety. I would still fly 400' over the bridge and I guess I'd have to pay the piper if found guilty of violating the "guideline".

 

[yawnalot29]

There are many answers to the question depending on whether you are:

1. the FAA
2. a Law Enforcement Officer
3. the Park Service responsible for the bridge/river area
   
4. a drone pilot who strictly follows FAA guidelines
5. a drone pilot who disregards FAA guidelines

How do you propose for someone who flys Phantom to strictly follows FAA guideline when the information provided by the drone preclude such?

 

[BlackTracer]

The 400 ft recommended limit is meant to keep you and manned aircraft a minimum of 100 ft apart. Meaning they are supposed to keep it over 500 ft. If there were a manned aircraft there equipped with Terrain Following Radar and he had the system engaged to maintain 500 ft altitude, then you must strictly not fly above 400 ft. AGL. In other words you are required to terrain follow at 400 ft. AGL. Forget about the bridge. It's just noise.

 

[m0j0]

The answer is you can fly it as high as you want. Which I believe is

Forest Hill Bridge is 900 feet above the river below. The mountain tops are another 400 feet above the bridge level. I'm standing at river level, how high can I fly my drone?
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I am going to answer the question asked.

Easy answer: You can fly your Phantom 500 meters above where you launched it.

 

[Wolfiesden]

Touche!

 

[Apilot101]

There are many answers to the question depending on whether you are:

1. the FAA
2. a Law Enforcement Officer
3. the Park Service responsible for the bridge/river area
   
4. a drone pilot who strictly follows FAA guidelines
5. a drone pilot who disregards FAA guidelines

6. A pilot who doesn't want any drones in any airspace.

 

[Dirby]

400 feet above where you are standing on.

 

[N017RW]

The 'spirit' of the FAA Guideline(s) is to maintain a 100' vertical buffer between model aircraft an manned aircraft operating minimums.

You can throw in all the suppositions you wish but if you are respecting the spirit you'll be fine.

 

[JFHughes08088]

Let's keep splitting hairs, for purpose of discussion...
You fly your bird over a canyon which is 500 feet deep but only 200 feet wide. You are at a 150' altitude above the surrounding land but at the halfway point you are 650' above the bottom of the canyon.
1. Does the fact that the canyon was only 200' wide matter? What if it was a mile wide? What if there were a 300 foot deep sink hole you were photographing?
2. At no point were you further than roughly 250' from solid ground. Is this of any importance?
3. At one point you were at an altitude of 650' from the canyon bottom. Are you in violation?

I think we can all reasonably agree on answers, but you can see how the "altitude" question can be...questioned.

Just for the record, I'd fly up to 400 feet above the bridge roadbed. That's me.

I would Google to learn the height of the bridge, then add 75 ft. Not the height of the road bed but the height of the highest post of the bridge.

 

[Wolfiesden]

I would Google to learn the height of the bridge, then add 75 ft. Not the height of the road bed but the height of the highest post of the bridge.

And what if there were a 1200' tall TV tower there on the hill? So 1275 would be your limit?

In most cases elevation rules are AGL. Not above other man made structures.

 

[ScatSpeak]

How do you propose for someone who flys Phantom to strictly follows FAA guideline when the information provided by the drone preclude such?

Seems pretty easy unless you are just trying to pick a fight .... the FAA website states specifically and clearly:

Individuals flying for hobby or recreation are strongly encouraged to follow safety guidelines, which include:

• Fly below 400 feet and remain clear of surrounding obstacles

So... it all depends upon where you take your ground level measurement and takeoff with the Phantom since we know "altitude zero" is the AMSL from where it started... you can use the resulting telemetry data and UI on the flight app to defend yourself if questioned by FAA/LEO... and of course, they'll factor intent of the guidelines and how responsible you were to their "encouragement"...

 

[DAP-UAV]

Perhaps in some technical splitting hairs sort of way. If I demand a jury trial, will I be convicted? I think not.

PS I totally agree with everyone here who says to use common sense and err on the side of safety. I would still fly 400' over the bridge and I guess I'd have to pay the piper if found guilty of violating the "guideline".

Well IF you should have one of those battery failures and your aircraft drops like a rock onto a moving vehicle that then crashes into someone else and so on.......You will not be flying very much after that. I find it interesting how some put other peoples lives and well-being at stake with not another thought. Your "guideline" reference and disregard of others safety is why the FAA is involved. I am comforted by the knowledge that certificated pilots do not perceive the FAA rules & regulations as "guidelines". I am not comforted knowing people like you are out there doing what they please and disregard the rest of us. IF the above mentioned, completely plausible, scenario should occur. It would make us ALL look bad.

 

[m0j0]

Forest Hill Bridge is 900 feet above the river below. The mountain tops are another 400 feet above the bridge level. I'm standing at river level, how high can I fly my drone?

As I was going to St. Ives,
I met a man with seven wives,
Each wife had seven sacks,
Each sack had seven cats,
Eachcat had seven kits:
Kits, cats, sacks, and wives,
How many were there going to St. Ives?

The answer to the original question is 500 meters above the launch point.



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[AAPhoto]

People make this much more difficult than it is.

The 400ft is a recommendation and it's measured from the spot on the ground where the drone was launched from. The app will let you know when you reach 400ft from that spot. It will not change if you fly towards an incline or a hole etc. If you need to go above 400ft, you need to acknowledge a disclaimer and then the max is 500 meters from that same spot where you took off.

If you ever get into trouble and have to prove or disprove something, the logs will show your actual altitude, so go with what the app says, fly responsibly, and you'll be fine.

 

[Jimmymac]

The 400 foot measurement applies to the drone, not the pilot. If the drone flys a path mirroring the terrain of a mountain side ascent, the drone can maintain an altitude of 400 feet AGL.


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[TheRealNick]

@Jimmymac you ever take off from bridge and see how low you can fly over the river. I read there is a limit in the DJI go app, but I think it is only for waypoints. If you try it make sure you don't crash!

 

[Reed L]

All true but at this particular bridge with the walls of the canyon going up another 1000' above the bridge, technically he could fly safely over 1500' and still be safe under the mountain sides and under the radar and all planes. Planes don't fly low in that part of the canyon, only down the middle fork on the other side because out of the picture and up the canyon around the corner is Clementine Dam. I've seen helicopters at water level a number of times over the years but they are few and far between along with not flying above their own limits. We heard a small helicopter coming down stream one day when we were below all of the 4 bridges swimming. As he was coming down river we thought we would scare him so we picked up rocks because he was in "OUR" canyon and we were around 22 years old and drunk... lol.. But he was maybe 50' from us and never saw us. We could have put the rocks through the tail and into the **** pit even but we really didn't want to hurt them and they were a lot closer to us then we thought when they came out from behind the rocks right next to us. My friends and I looked at each other and said, no to rocking them. The pilot and his friend still didn't see us and they were so close to us. I yelled at them instead with the rocks in our hands and scared the cr@p out of him, he panicked, pulled back on his stick and almost went down. He dropped to maybe 3 feet above the water before recovering. Then he started screaming at us because we could have killed him, blah blah blah, etc. We told him to get out of our canyon, flipped him off and that was that. He was going to call the police... lol. I was on the Fire Department and well known in Auburn with 7 generations raised here. The police didn't show, he wet his pants, got scared straight and we never saw him fly down that low again. Yea, I went off topic but this is my home and I grew up on that river and spent many nights climbing on the catwalks under that bridge with my friends as children.

 

[tatmank1]

Seems pretty easy unless you are just trying to pick a fight .... the FAA website states specifically and clearly:

Individuals flying for hobby or recreation are strongly encouraged to follow safety guidelines, which include:

• Fly below 400 feet and remain clear of surrounding obstacles

So... it all depends upon where you take your ground level measurement and takeoff with the Phantom since we know "altitude zero" is the AMSL from where it started... you can use the resulting telemetry data and UI on the flight app to defend yourself if questioned by FAA/LEO... and of course, they'll factor intent of the guidelines and how responsible you were to their "encouragement"...

Well said. Basically the use of the words "strongly encourage" and "guidlines" as opposed to "required" and "rules" demonstrates the acknowledgement by the FAA that there will be times when it is reasonable and safe to exceed the guidlines. Just be sure that you only do it when required to get a certain shot and only if it is SAFE to do so. If your judgement of safe leads to your Phantom hitting a structure, car, person or airplane... then you face legal problems and the wrath of the Phantom community.

Get your shot if you can but safety first.

 

[Travis726]

People make this much more difficult than it is.

The 400ft is a recommendation and it's measured from the spot on the ground where the drone was launched from. The app will let you know when you reach 400ft from that spot. It will not change if you fly towards an incline or a hole etc. If you need to go above 400ft, you need to acknowledge a disclaimer and then the max is 500 meters from that same spot where you took off.

If you ever get into trouble and have to prove or disprove something, the logs will show your actual altitude, so go with what the app says, fly responsibly, and you'll be fine.

Im gonna have to disagree with that. If that were the case you could take off from the highest mountain around and fly miles away putting you WAY higher than 400' AGL. Its above ground level, not above takeoff point. The logs don't show your actual altitude. In furture UAV's there will likely be an actual reading AGL, until then it is on the pilot to make sure he/she is under 400' as the app doesnt give you this info (unless there is no increase/decrease in ground level as you travel horizontally).

 

[yawnalot29]

Seems pretty easy unless you are just trying to pick a fight .... the FAA website states specifically and clearly:

Individuals flying for hobby or recreation are strongly encouraged to follow safety guidelines, which include:

• Fly below 400 feet and remain clear of surrounding obstacles

So... it all depends upon where you take your ground level measurement and takeoff with the Phantom since we know "altitude zero" is the AMSL from where it started... you can use the resulting telemetry data and UI on the flight app to defend yourself if questioned by FAA/LEO... and of course, they'll factor intent of the guidelines and how responsible you were to their "encouragement"...

So basically you have no intention of actually following the guideline. You are saying just being able to say I followed even if you are not?

So before you get into a rant, let's get on same page first. If you agree to these 3 points below:

1. the world is not flat.
2. Phantom based all height measurement from the point of take-off
3. FAA guideline stipulate 400 AGL (the ground which is directly below the drone, NOT where it takes off from)

So tell me, if you fly off a cliff that is 500 feet high over above the cliff, you are already over 400 AGL.

Give #1, #2, and #3 to be true (if you disagree, then no point going further), how do you propose to strictly follow FAA guideline (see #3) when #1 and #2 is true and you are not flying in a flat area?

No this may seem like argumentative for Missouri, at very hilly California coastline, it isn't. Anytime I fly off a hill toward the beach, it already exceeded the 400 AGL even if I take off at only 50 feet AGL.