Rotorpixel gimbal for Phantom Vision

[tedw123]

If you "had the money and time to wait for top-quality" then you would have never bought an entry-level offering like the Vision nor tried to mend it by waiting for a patch like the RP gimbal.

Again, thanks for the laughs no matter how unintended they were.

A P1 with a 2 axis gimbal and a GPB3.

Superior video quality (blows away the poor quality Vision camera) that is stabilized via a real gimbal (as opposed to the hokey single-axis servo on the Vision)[/quote]

Maybe better video quality, but still shots not superior and the fact you have no camera shutter control while in the air kind of sucks, doesn't it? Having to run the camera full time while flying?

 

[bobomet]

This discussion is interesting for a relative noob to electronics and quads....cut Rotopixal some slack. This really is sort of cutting edge technology for the masses. Mis-starts should be expected.

You should have stopped at "noob."

There is nothing "cutting edge" about using an off the shelf controller and off the shelf motors to run a 2 axis gimbal.

Real Adam, if you are not just trolling to get your kicks, then would you please state if you have or had a RP on order? I have to suspect the answer will be no to both considering your comment regarding the P2V. The P2V is a RTF consumer quad not aimed at the professional drone community. For those who ordered the RP to attain better video footage, they understood the T's & C's. Yes the delays and poor/timely communications could frustrate some who ordered the RP, but they are free to request a full refund.

I am willing to wait for the stable product (pun intended) as the alternatives do not interest me. My money, my choice. Fanboy? I'll let you know after receiving and using the RP.

They are nothing more that trolls who are desperately trying to sway customers away from RP and to some sham they're part of.
Who in his or her right mind would listen to anything they have to offer?

 

[grochester]

A P1 with a 2 axis gimbal and a GPB3.

Superior video quality (blows away the poor quality Vision camera) that is stabilized via a real gimbal (as opposed to the hokey single-axis servo on the Vision)

Lame

 

[WeaponsHot]

Where's the thread where people are actually discussing the Rotorpixel gimbal itself?

I started this one, because of all the fakes and BS here.
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=10814
It tries to focus on the technical aspects, I just got tired of coming here and and listening to people complain about something they do have or know nothing about. With the exception of all the good stuff contributed by a lot of folks.

The folks that have a vested interest, want to contribute, want to learn and help others.

 

[GneeChee]

Where's the thread where people are actually discussing the Rotorpixel gimbal itself?

I started this one, because of all the fakes and BS here.
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=10814
It tries to focus on the technical aspects, I just got tired of coming here and and listening to people complain about something they do have or know nothing about. With the exception of all the good stuff contributed by a lot of folks.

The folks that have a vested interest, want to contribute, want to learn and help others.

Thanks. Appreciate the link

 

[wp6529]

I have no doubt that Kerri is well intentioned and a talented engineer. He really needs an MBA to run the company though. At some point you have to lock the engineers out of the room and start shipping product. Otherwise the tinkering and quest for perfection goes on for ever. There will always be just one more update, one more mod. That being said, perhaps Rotorpixel's engineering should have been a bit further along before taking pre-orders with full payment in advance.

The only people complaining about the wait time are those who don't even have an order placed.
Some of us would simply prefer more frequent updates on progress.
But I have read not one complaint about the wait for an optimally proofed product.

bobofan, how do you know that the people complaining haven't actually ordered? Are you a psychic? Do I need to put my order number in parentheses under my name for validation? I handed my money over in full faith my order would be fulfilled in a reasonable amount of time. I was happy to wait for a month or two, but at this point, I'm pissed. So here's what's gonna happen. I'm going to complain every time RP makes a promise it doesn't keep. It's happened numerous times already. I'm going to continue to call this group out on ******** until DJI releases something (after doing the proper preemptive testing) for sale and I can cancel my order. I'd prefer not to, but I have a feeling thats how its gonna go down. People on here have every single right to be pissed. Seriously, you should take the fanboys and start a new thread. Call it ROTORPIXEL BLIND FAITH GROUP

Yes, actually you do need to put your order number for validation. You also need to check your calendar, since the "I was happy to wait for a month or two" has not yet passed. Pre-orders opened on 10-Feb and today is 3-Apr. If you do indeed have an order in queue, either live up to the check boxes you acknowledged when pre-ordering, or cancel your order. In the meantime, the adults here have better things to do like analyze the information from those who actually have been using the RP gimbal.

 

[Big Chips]

Sure!!! we'll be ramping to 100 per week.. hummm where have I heard that before??? ROFLMAO!! :lol: :lol:

Would you prefer that we blindly manufacture and ship out as many as possible immediately, like the Taco people have done? I don't think so. We actually care about our product working well, out of the box, with no user input, and that is not an easy feat to accomplish because of the inevitable manufacturing/assembly hurdles that can (and have) occur.

While all of these delays have been going on, our machines have been printing parts, and workers have been preparing parts, so I do think that around 100 per week is still a reasonable number that we'll realistically get to shortly. Once this batch of gimbals goes out, I'll be interested to see what feedback we get, and if there are no obvious problems, then we're going to go full steam.

On another note, those of you who have been following this thread may remember that I was busy for a few days upgrading one of our 3D printers to accept a stronger material... the upgrade is complete, so we're now able to *almost* double our 3D part output as hoped. They're printing 24/7.

Keri

first rule in business IS NEVER EVER mention the competition by name...now for the rest of this... I am a manufacturer and have been involved in product design and manufacturing for retail and wholesale and B2B as well for the last 19 years.

Your product is nice..very nice and I had considered purchasing one myself for my PV2 until I saw the huge back log of pre orders. I know what you are going through and it is simply you are or were trying to be first to market...which has not happened now. I also understand all to well set backs and the passion you can have for your product...but when you cant meant demand you have issues. You say you have no user input...YOU dont need it if you had done your own testing prior entering the stream of commerce with your product, as you should have done. You should have your own drones flying your product. It is obvious that you are a low production company and had had the great fortune of $341,000 worth of pre-orders that have been paid for going off some of the largest order numbers that people have posted...which should put you int he 900 range and possibly more.

You say you have updated your printers and ect ect...My question is WHY!? With this type of back log you need to be outsourcing this printing and looking onto injection molding. No wonder you can fill orders...3D printers are just slow right now. The CNC work on the brackets alone is a best a 3 operation job which takes a ton of time and is costly unless you have your own machines to do this and they must be quick and fast....that needs to be outsourced as well. All you need to be doing is assembling gimbals and shipping them. I feel like your passion to put a perfect product out is and has cost you your window of opportunity.

A basic setup is all that is needed for the gimbal no product is ever perfect....you can produce a 100% perfect product and someone will still say it will not work right.

100 units a week..tells me you are small and the manpower to produce is small and the time to produce is to great for a small operation. People waiting this long for the product shows the product was funded by pre orders as well as the R&D was not done and a final working product had was not completed and the time of the product launch.

Outsourcing would have brought you to market faster and more efficiently. Once again a very nice product you have...downside is once you have them out int he world they will get copied and you know it and with that being said it is not uncommon for a company to hold all orders till they can ship a high percentage of them all at once in order to gain all the revenue they can before the unit gets copied and sold for less. SO the units you have out now...which from this board seem to be a low number are your "USER" inputs you so desperately say you had none of.

You have competition and now the window of opportunity is closing and make slam shut once DJI announce the PV2+ this weekend at the NAB Show.

I have seen what I am typing and what is happening to you plenty of times in 19 years...All I can say is get what you can now and get the orders shipped while you still can.......

 

[tizzl10]

the thing that rotorpixel clearly doesn't understand is there is no "perfect, work out of the box" gimbal. What they should do is ship a baseline gimbal setting on a brand new phantom vision and include a software link to whatever board they are using with instructions on how to properly calibrate the gimbal for their particular setup.

Well, we do know why you're standing outside the window crying.
I wouldn't buy anything you're selling dude!

im not selling anything..i have a working 2 axis gimbal..do you?

 

[WeaponsHot]

Personally, I evaluated the technical aspects of this product and what was on the market. I also evaluated that this was a start-up production of gimbals. to me it was worth waiting in a queue. The thing I like abut this forum is the helpfulness and the breadth of experience of its readers. Production advice, test advice, debug advice etc.

I'm not in RPs shoes however I envy their problem, having that kind of a backlog is frigging awesome. Now for the realism, its a double edge sword. People get impatient, RP tried to minimize that by the check off boxes during the order check out for the PRE ORDER phase. Couple that with the shorting hiccup, lends itself to snipers as well as the helpful. This detracts from a superior product coming to market. There is a lot to be said for strike while the Iron is hot. But I get the feeling that folks at RP are not as concerned about making a killing money wise, but are trying to turn out a precision device at a reasonable price and are not willing to shove (mass produce) something that is less than precise.

I also get the sense, (also working in an EMS environment) and dealing with startups, they are an engineering type company. (high Mix Low Volume) In Electronic Manufacturing Services the smart folks come to us what they think is a good product and we show them how to make it manufacturable, and how to make money. Hopefully we (EMS) turn it to Low Mix, High Volume, thats where quality goes up, price goes down and profits go up.

 

[WeaponsHot]

That would be my business as I see it. Perhaps you should stay in the low-quality World you've become comfortable in.

Some of us have the money and time to wait for top-quality.

Yet more confusion. Your responses just get more amusing as you vainly try to defend your purchase.

If you "had the money and time to wait for top-quality" then you would have never bought an entry-level offering like the Vision nor tried to mend it by waiting for a patch like the RP gimbal.

Again, thanks for the laughs no matter how unintended they were.

Isn't that amazing .....
You're both "confused" and able to fully understand at the same time! And to the extent you can glean humor from it.
But as I suggested earlier .... what I do with my money is my business.
If I decided to light cigars with it, yours is not an opinion I'd seek.

Now the RP forum is bringing Cigars into the mix. We are covering the globe with options, ok I'll go with it… Its beyond me why rotor pixel did not add an option for a cigar lighter. What kind of engineers are they. I never fly without a Romeo y Julieta.+
This
= a great flight no matter what gimbal you may or MAY NOT have.
Please continue add nothing useful to this site.

 

[wp6529]

Personally, I evaluated the technical aspects of this product and what was on the market. I also evaluated that this was a start-up production of gimbals. to me it was worth waiting in a queue. The thing I like abut this forum is the helpfulness and the breadth of experience of its readers. Production advice, test advice, debug advice etc.

I'm not in RPs shoes however I envy their problem, having that kind of a backlog is frigging awesome. Now for the realism, its a double edge sword. People get impatient, RP tried to minimize that by the check off boxes during the order check out for the PRE ORDER phase. Couple that with the shorting hiccup, lends itself to snipers as well as the helpful. This detracts from a superior product coming to market. There is a lot to be said for strike while the Iron is hot. But I get the feeling that folks at RP are not as concerned about making a killing money wise, but are trying to turn out a precision device at a reasonable price and are not willing to shove (mass produce) something that is less than precise.

I also get the sense, (also working in an EMS environment) and dealing with startups, they are an engineering type company. (high Mix Low Volume) In Electronic Manufacturing Services the smart folks come to us what they think is a good product and we show them how to make it manufacturable, and how to make money. Hopefully we (EMS) turn it to Low Mix, High Volume, thats where quality goes up, price goes down and profits go up.

A couple things to note:

- This is not RP's first product or gimbal, they have produced a couple different gimbals previously.

- This new RP gimbal is replacing their prior offerings as a "universal small camera gimbal" to be used with multiple cameras and multiple aircraft.

- For many of us what DJI may or may not announce is irrelevant due to the universal nature of the RP gimbal and the fact that we fully intend to use it with different cameras and aircraft in the future.

- Many of us have followed the trials and tribulations of the other gimbals that are now being marketed for the P2V, and we are seeing how the designs have significant flaws from being rushed to market. We are happy to wait a bit longer for the gimbal that is technically superior and will serve our aerial video/photo stabilization needs well after we have moved on from the P2V.

 

[Rotorpixel]

There's lots to respond to here...

You say you have no user input...YOU dont need it if you had done your own testing prior entering the stream of commerce with your product, as you should have done. You should have your own drones flying your product.

When have I said that we have no user input? We have several P2Vs that we've been testing with since long before we began taking pre-orders, in addition to the several gimbals that were sent out to other colleagues in the industry. All of these initial gimbals were very carefully assembled from scratch. Then, when we saw that demand was off the charts, we had to compeltely change the manufacturing/assembly process to accommodate the volume, i.e. an assembly line. Because of this drastic change, the first batch of units off the line had problems, and we caught it before sending out a large batch. Now, we've received more feedback from more users, and now have a much more refined product. I think we've handled the problems quite well, and made the right decisions so far.

You say you have updated your printers and ect ect...My question is WHY!? With this type of back log you need to be outsourcing this printing and looking onto injection molding. No wonder you can fill orders...3D printers are just slow right now. The CNC work on the brackets alone is a best a 3 operation job which takes a ton of time and is costly unless you have your own machines to do this and they must be quick and fast....that needs to be outsourced as well. All you need to be doing is assembling gimbals and shipping them. I feel like your passion to put a perfect product out is and has cost you your window of opportunity.

The arms/frame of the gimbal are CNC machined, and have been siting waiting for other parts of the assembly process to catch up. If we knew that the demand would continue at the rate that it has, we may have looked into injection molding for the camera mount, but at this point, it would add another several weeks onto the timeline (I've been directly involved in several injection molded designs, and experience tells me that nothing ever goes as planned there either). This is not a delay that we'd like to incur. We are looking into other options, but we'll leave it at that for now.

A basic setup is all that is needed for the gimbal no product is ever perfect....you can produce a 100% perfect product and someone will still say it will not work right.

People are paying lots of their hard-earned money for this product, so I want to do everything in my power to make sure that it is as perfect as I can make it. I believe I've now reached that point - it works very well, assembly issues have been sorted out, and we're now clear to proceed as fast as we can. Sure some people will not like it still, but now I can say that I've tried my best. I'd prefer doing it this way than shipping out a lesser-quality product, and tarnishing my reputation in that way (I'd much prefer a "delayed product" reputation than a "crappy product" reputation... no?).

100 units a week..tells me you are small and the manpower to produce is small and the time to produce is to great for a small operation. People waiting this long for the product shows the product was funded by pre orders as well as the R&D was not done and a final working product had was not completed and the time of the product launch.

We are a small business, yes - I thought that was clear to everyone since day one. However, I want to make it clear that this pre-order did *not* fund the product. If we needed funding, we would've used kickstarter (or similar). I have had a working gimbal for the P2V since long before the launch of the pre-order... it's just taken longer than anticipated to work out all of the manufacturing problems. We were proceeding with the product regardless of the number of people that were interested... then there was an explosion of orders that has continued since the pre-orders went live.


Can I get back to programming gimbals now?

Keri

 

[WeaponsHot]

Personally, I evaluated the technical aspects of this product and what was on the market. I also evaluated that this was a start-up production of gimbals. to me it was worth waiting in a queue. The thing I like abut this forum is the helpfulness and the breadth of experience of its readers. Production advice, test advice, debug advice etc.

I'm not in RPs shoes however I envy their problem, having that kind of a backlog is frigging awesome. Now for the realism, its a double edge sword. People get impatient, RP tried to minimize that by the check off boxes during the order check out for the PRE ORDER phase. Couple that with the shorting hiccup, lends itself to snipers as well as the helpful. This detracts from a superior product coming to market. There is a lot to be said for strike while the Iron is hot. But I get the feeling that folks at RP are not as concerned about making a killing money wise, but are trying to turn out a precision device at a reasonable price and are not willing to shove (mass produce) something that is less than precise.

I also get the sense, (also working in an EMS environment) and dealing with startups, they are an engineering type company. (high Mix Low Volume) In Electronic Manufacturing Services the smart folks come to us what they think is a good product and we show them how to make it manufacturable, and how to make money. Hopefully we (EMS) turn it to Low Mix, High Volume, thats where quality goes up, price goes down and profits go up.

A couple things to note:

- This is not RP's first product or gimbal, they have produced a couple different gimbals previously.

- This new RP gimbal is replacing their prior offerings as a "universal small camera gimbal" to be used with multiple cameras and multiple aircraft.

- For many of us what DJI may or may not announce is irrelevant due to the universal nature of the RP gimbal and the fact that we fully intend to use it with different cameras and aircraft in the future.

- Many of us have followed the trials and tribulations of the other gimbals that are now being marketed for the P2V, and we are seeing how the designs have significant flaws from being rushed to market. We are happy to wait a bit longer for the gimbal that is technically superior and will serve our aerial video/photo stabilization needs well after we have moved on from the P2V.

Concur!

 

[Big Chips]

you guys (members here) act like this is rocket science to make one of these....the ONLY part that is critical to operation is the controller...which can be purchased direct from the manufacturer....the rest of what they have can be ordered for around $20 and a simple 3d printer can print the rest of it on the kitchen counter... they know it and many of the rest of us know it... a camera gimbal is not new technology.

I can CAD draw the thing out in the morning and machine all the pieces in a few hours in the morning from 6061 Aluminum the same as they have...but this is because I have the equipment to do so.

There is nothing here that is proprietary (except for the controller) or on other gimbals for that matter. The CNC aluminum just makes it look more expensive and really makes it more expensive to manufacture.

I like the product...it is looks great and I am not knocking it around...I am just pointing out things that many already know after reading the response from the company.

I never meant send a product out that is not 100%...I meant you can refine the crap of it all you want...this is what engineers do and it usually ends up the same result you are now experience...IT NEVER ENDS>>>

This is one reason why I never endorse pre orders of anything my company manufactures...it is a recipe for troubles in the CSM dept.

I can and will say this...if you had stock on the shelves...I would be unboxing mine now...I like it that much..

 

[WeaponsHot]

I'm smoking a Cigar now, thinking about Keri programming my Gimbal!

Signed 533

 

[WeaponsHot]

you guys act like this is rocket science to make one of these....the ONLY part that is critical to operation is the controller...which can be purchased direct from the manufacturer....the rest of what they have can be ordered for around $20 and a simple 3d printer can print the rest of it... they know it and many of the rest of us know it... a camera gimbal is not new technology.

I can CAD draw the thing out in the morning and machine all the pieces in a few hours in the morning from 6061 Aluminum the same as they have.

There is nothing here that is proprietary or on other gimbals for that matter. The CNC aluminum just makes it look more expensive and really makes it more expensive to manufacture.

I like the product...it is looks great and I am not knocking it around...I am just pointing out things that many already know after reading the response from the company.

I never meant send a product out that is not 100%...I meant you can refine the crap of it all you want...this is what engineers do and it usually ends up the same result you are now experience...IT NEVER ENDS>>>

Mr Chips, I'll buy one if you can make it, tomorrow, and ship it to me defect free, the next day, bolt on and ready to go for Saturday. I will need instructions and maybe a video or 2. $299.99 Ok?

Deal?

 

[Big Chips]

you guys act like this is rocket science to make one of these....the ONLY part that is critical to operation is the controller...which can be purchased direct from the manufacturer....the rest of what they have can be ordered for around $20 and a simple 3d printer can print the rest of it... they know it and many of the rest of us know it... a camera gimbal is not new technology.

I can CAD draw the thing out in the morning and machine all the pieces in a few hours in the morning from 6061 Aluminum the same as they have.

There is nothing here that is proprietary or on other gimbals for that matter. The CNC aluminum just makes it look more expensive and really makes it more expensive to manufacture.

I like the product...it is looks great and I am not knocking it around...I am just pointing out things that many already know after reading the response from the company.

I never meant send a product out that is not 100%...I meant you can refine the crap of it all you want...this is what engineers do and it usually ends up the same result you are now experience...IT NEVER ENDS>>>

Mr Chips, I'll buy one if you can make it, tomorrow, and ship it to me defect free, the next day, bolt on and ready to go for Saturday. I will need instructions and maybe a video or 2. $299.99 Ok?

Deal?

Stop being a wise azz talking out the side of your neck. I am not interested in selling a product like this or mass producing it...simply not worth the time or small amount of profit that comes with it or the customer support that it will require for my company to manufacture...

I have all parts already 3d printed out and just waiting on my controller to arrive.

They have a very nice unit...priced to compete with their perceived closest competitors.....once they start shipping units as the rest will smooth out for them...but that seems to be the issue they have...they cant seem to get units shipped without redesigns or firmware upgrades....which firmware upgrades is something that we all expect to do with this hobby so I surmise that the consumer wold not take issue with this.

This just a hobby for me....Not looking to turn a hobby into a job...already done that with the 2 business I now own and run...and BTW one is a Audio/Video news outlet for the Motorsports Industry...so the video would be a breeze as well as the training documentation and literature.

IF I were to make and sell mine...why would i undercut them on price? When you could take delivery of one and not the other...not smart business sense...eh?

 

[WeaponsHot]

you guys act like this is rocket science to make one of these....the ONLY part that is critical to operation is the controller...which can be purchased direct from the manufacturer....the rest of what they have can be ordered for around $20 and a simple 3d printer can print the rest of it... they know it and many of the rest of us know it... a camera gimbal is not new technology.

I can CAD draw the thing out in the morning and machine all the pieces in a few hours in the morning from 6061 Aluminum the same as they have.
hips, I'll buy one if you can make it, tomorrow, and ship it to me defect free, the next day, bolt on and ready to go for Saturday. I will need instructions and maybe a video or 2. $299.99 Ok?

Deal?

Stop being a wise azz talking out the side of your neck. I am not interested in selling a product like this or mass producing it...simply not worth the time or small amount of profit that comes with it or the customer support that it will require for my company to manufacture...

I have all parts already 3d printed out and just waiting on my controller to arrive.

They have a very nice unit...priced to compete with their perceived closest competitors.....once they start shipping units as the rest will smooth out for them...but that seems to be the issue they have...they cant seem to get units shipped without redesigns or firmware upgrades....which firmware upgrades is something that we all expect to do with this hobby so I surmise that the consumer wold not take issue with this.

This just a hobby for me....Not looking to turn a hobby into a job...already done that with the 2 business I now own and run...and BTW one is a Audio/Video news outlet for the Motorsports Industry...so the video would be a breeze as well as the training documentation and literature.

IF I were to make and sell mine...why would i undercut them on price? When you could take delivery of one and not the other...not smart business sense...eh?

Mr. Chips I resent being called a wise zzz, I'm a BALL BUSTER, relax, I would buy one, since you made it sound so easy. Why would I pay more if it was so easy for you to do so much better. Of course they have a nice unit, I did the research or I wouldn't have ordered one. I also appreciate I'm not going to get junk when it arrives. I have done the exact same thing that Keri did several times in my career to stop product from getting out the door wrong, analyze the problem, make correction, resume, monitor and keep making improvements. Plan, Do, Check, Act-Start the cycle all over again. Continuous Improvement.

And the Hobby part, Thats why I'm patient, its a hobby. Half the fun of the vacation is the anticipation before you leave.

 

[Bunyarra]

Sure!!! we'll be ramping to 100 per week.. hummm where have I heard that before??? ROFLMAO!! :lol: :lol:

Would you prefer that we blindly manufacture and ship out as many as possible immediately, like the Taco people have done?

That is superbly unprofessional and confirms the speculation regarding "rotorpixel" being a legitimate company.

a) Rotorpixel is not an huge corporate - it is a few people trying their best and doing darn well despite idiots with no real understanding of running a functioning business

b) it is a product I'd prefer to work than be like 99% of cheap gimbals that spend more time on the bench than the air

c) why be so rude to a _person_ ? Remember, at the other end of your bile is a real, breathing, feeling person .. geesh. I very much doubt you'd say those things to his face so why on the 'net?

 

[Bunyarra]

I have no doubt that Kerri is well intentioned and a talented engineer. He really needs an MBA to run the company though. At some point you have to lock the engineers out of the room and start shipping product. Otherwise the tinkering and quest for perfection goes on for ever. There will always be just one more update, one more mod. That being said, perhaps Rotorpixel's engineering should have been a bit further along before taking pre-orders with full payment in advance.

Hmm .. I have run a business .. successfully for 15 years with no MBA .. perhaps I should stop now?

There would be far worse consequences for any company if the first few hundred ship with defects, fragile parts or don't work as expected. The audience here is not a very forgiving one and Kerri was going to be lambasted no matter what course he took. Get the product good enough to ship is a prime requirement. If he judged it was not good enough then he is in the best position to do that.

No one is dying if they don't get the gimbal - a sense of perspective by all is really required.