Rotorpixel gimbal for Phantom Vision

[disjecta]

I can't help but dip in to see what's going on in this thread each time I log on to the forum. It's like watching a train wreck. A couple of hundred posts later, it's still the same thing. "I'm number blah de blah and I'd like to know when my gimbal will be shipped" or the 30th post by Keri indicating that gimbals will be shipped out in a couple of days only to find that there's no follow up and no news and people are still without their gimbals. I sent an email to them indicating my interest in purchasing a gimbal about 3 weeks ago and I got no response (I wanted to buy it via Paypal).

This is by far the most bizarre product rollout I have every seen. I'm amazed that Rotorpixel hasn't lost most of their preorders already. If there was more competition out there, this would have been a complete non-starter for them. I was so excited about this product having followed the news right from when it was first announced but now I have decided to look elsewhere. It makes me ill to even think about what's going to happen when the third axis upgrade will be announced. I have absolutely no faith it will be delivered any time in the foreseeable future.

I hope all of you who have already parted with your money get what you were promised. I envy (in a weird way) your faith in a company that has thus far demonstrated the worst customer service possible.

 

[RCRookie]

I can't help but dip in to see what's going on in this thread each time I log on to the forum. It's like watching a train wreck. A couple of hundred posts later, it's still the same thing. "I'm number blah de blah and I'd like to know when my gimbal will be shipped" or the 30th post by Keri indicating that gimbals will be shipped out in a couple of days only to find that there's no follow up and no news and people are still without their gimbals. I sent an email to them indicating my interest in purchasing a gimbal about 3 weeks ago and I got no response (I wanted to buy it via Paypal).

This is by far the most bizarre product rollout I have every seen. I'm amazed that Rotorpixel hasn't lost most of their preorders already. If there was more competition out there, this would have been a complete non-starter for them. I was so excited about this product having followed the news right from when it was first announced but now I have decided to look elsewhere. It makes me ill to even think about what's going to happen when the third axis upgrade will be announced. I have absolutely no faith it will be delivered any time in the foreseeable future.

I hope all of you who have already parted with your money get what you were promised. I envy (in a weird way) your faith in a company that has thus far demonstrated the worst customer service possible.

Its not nearly as much about faith in a company as it is faith in a Gimbal....I don't know Keri from Adam. I paid, so I wait.
I knew early on in the thread it was still under development. I'm about 100 away. I hope to see a shipping notification soon.
The Rookie

 

[Bjorn Thore]

hear.... hear.....well said....

 

[tedw123]

I can't help but dip in to see what's going on in this thread each time I log on to the forum. It's like watching a train wreck. A couple of hundred posts later, it's still the same thing. "I'm number blah de blah and I'd like to know when my gimbal will be shipped" or the 30th post by Keri indicating that gimbals will be shipped out in a couple of days only to find that there's no follow up and no news and people are still without their gimbals. I sent an email to them indicating my interest in purchasing a gimbal about 3 weeks ago and I got no response (I wanted to buy it via Paypal).

This is by far the most bizarre product rollout I have every seen. I'm amazed that Rotorpixel hasn't lost most of their preorders already. If there was more competition out there, this would have been a complete non-starter for them. I was so excited about this product having followed the news right from when it was first announced but now I have decided to look elsewhere. It makes me ill to even think about what's going to happen when the third axis upgrade will be announced. I have absolutely no faith it will be delivered any time in the foreseeable future.

I hope all of you who have already parted with your money get what you were promised. I envy (in a weird way) your faith in a company that has thus far demonstrated the worst customer service possible.

Keri's last post on Facebook said a bulk order would go out this week, tomorrow is Friday, we shall see.

 

[MattOlieman]

No, I used the version 2.2b2
I did download version 2.4 as well but to use it you also have to update the firmware and I did not want to take the risk to update this firmware.
Version 2.2b2 worked fine with the firmware which came with the gimbal.

Geert.

I noticed the connection on the board is not what I'm familiar with. Geert or anyone else, what cable did you use? USB to ???? Perhaps a link to a description?

Hi Matt ,

Yes, you can just use a standard USB cable. Connect the cable to your computer and to the USB port on the board from your gimbal. When connected properly you will hear the beeping.
You need to download the software and also a driver which you can find on their website.

Maybe a good idea to read manual first : http://www.basecamelectronics.com/files ... _2_eng.pdf
In the manual you also can find a link to download the driver.

Good luck Matt ,

Luck? I think I may need it more than you think

Anyway, please not the attached image, left side image is a standard mini USB, the right side image..... I haven't a clue. Is the right side image (connector) the one we're talking about?

Edit: Here we go again... can't get the complete image to display. I'll fix it, standby:

http://MyCockpit.org/MattO/p2vandrp-usb.jpg Why I get "FORBIDDEN when try to go to my own site, who knows and why I can't get the image to display, I don't know that either. Please copy the URL and paste in your browser, it will get you there.

 

[MattOlieman]

Luck? I think I may need it more than you think

Anyway, please not the attached image, left side image is a standard mini USB, the right side image..... I haven't a clue. Is the right side image (connector) the one we're talking about?

Edit: Here we go again... can't get the complete image to display. I'll fix it, standby:

http://MyCockpit.org/MattO/p2vandrp-usb.jpg Why I get "FORBIDDEN when try to go to my own site, who knows and why I can't get the image to display, I don't know that either. Please copy the URL and paste in your browser, it will get you there.

Yes Matt , that is correct, the right side image.
You can not use the USB cable which came with your P2V.
You need a USB cable like on the picture I posted, it is a slightly different cable.

Geert.

Thanks Geert. A cable hunting I will go and will find.

 

[RCRookie]

Luck? I think I may need it more than you think

Anyway, please not the attached image, left side image is a standard mini USB, the right side image..... I haven't a clue. Is the right side image (connector) the one we're talking about?

Edit: Here we go again... can't get the complete image to display. I'll fix it, standby:

http://MyCockpit.org/MattO/p2vandrp-usb.jpg Why I get "FORBIDDEN when try to go to my own site, who knows and why I can't get the image to display, I don't know that either. Please copy the URL and paste in your browser, it will get you there.

Yes Matt , that is correct, the right side image.
You can not use the USB cable which came with your P2V.
You need a USB cable like on the picture I posted, it is a slightly different cable.

Geert.

Thanks Geert. A cable hunting I will go and will find.

Hi Matt....that is a mini USB in the image posted....The Vision and most cell phones use a Micro USB. A slight difference in the shape of the connector but not much difference in size.

 

[cavaleiro01]

Someone earlier hit the nail on the head about this whole power thing - Rotorpixel have to set the power levels at some point, they cant please everyone. Many have lens filters fitted to their cameras, all different types which will have a bearing on the power requirement. Different people would tune different power settings depending on what weight they have added to the camera lens, to get it to balance properly. Reading what Keri said about their motor selection they went for beefy motors, presumably because they know exactly that some have additional weight on the camera which requires enough grunt to do the work without straining the motors.

Would make sense to me anyway, but they have to set a stock value for the motors somewhere, and if jello or vibration is an issue after the balancing and damper settings, then they can resort to the power settings if they need to.

Rotorpixel should make the power adjustment to the camera considering there is nothing else attached to it, because I think that, this way, it will fit 90% of the P2V Rotorpixel normal setup gimbal customers.

I, myself, am one of the remaining 10%, though...

 

[Rotorpixel]

In my last update, I mentioned that a batch of gimbals was shipping out this week. I was hoping that would be Monday/Tuesday, but there have been a few users with a vibration problem, particularly when pointed straight down. This has not been an issue for all units that have shipped out, and the cause is still a mystery to us, since all gimbals are "identical", but only some units are affected.

After speaking with the gimbal control board manufacturers directly for several hours, our best guess is that the tuning settings are right at the borderline of a natural resonant frequency of the system, and the slight manufacturing variation in motors may be enough to shift the resonant frequency over to the same frequency that the motors are being corrected at. And, it is not necessarily that the motor power was just too high - each of the tuning parameters contributes to the stabilization response, so a similar sort of "fix" could have come from changing other values, and leaving the motor power the same. I've changed the tuning, and have tested it on a random selection of 10 gimbals, and they all seem to work fine at all angles now, so the problem should be gone. This is a plug-and-play gimbal - no one should have to do any tweaking!

I just mentioned that I "changed the tuning", but this is actually where the past several days of delay stem from. When the decision was made to re-tune the gimbal, we figured that it was the perfect opportunity to migrate to the newest gimbal board firmware available (v2.4B7). So, we spent a few days tuning with the new firmware, but it uses a completely different stabilization algorithm, and the PID feedback control loop parameters have different ranges, so we essentially started tuning from scratch. And, PROPER tuning requires quite some time, energy, and appropriate lighting conditions to test properly. (We only did testing when it was very sunny out, to ensure that the shutterspeed was as high as possible, which accentuates any vibration issues... a poorly-tuned gimbal may look like it performs well on an overcast day, so don't take overcast example footage from other gimbal manufacturers with a grain of salt!).

Then, after spending several days tuning, and speaking with the manufacturers again, they advised us to use a previous version instead, since v2.4B7 is still too new to trust fully! So, that meant that we had to go back to the drawing board, and re-tune AGAIN using the existing firmware (v2.2B2). We're all sorted out now though (until the NEXT problem manifests itself....).

I know that some users have already "corrected" the problem by downloading the gimbal control software (from http://www.basecamelectronics.com), and decreasing the motor power... but the other tuning values are then thrown off completely by the change in power, so ideal results will not be achieved. Everyone who has already received their gimbal will receive an email with the updated tuning profile, and instructions explaining how to implement the change.

We have a beautiful PILE of gimbals here, and part of my team is gathering now (after-hours) to update all of the gimbal control boards with the latest info, put the finishing touches on them, package them, and then start rolling out shipping notifications.

Provided that we FINALLY have some smooth sailing ahead of us, we are going to be moving fast over the next few weeks. I've never been more glad to have held back on shipping units out than now. Everyone will be getting a more reliable product as a result!

Thanks, and sorry to the hundreds of people that have still not received personal responses to emails, facebook messages, or youtube comments. We're doing our best!

Keri

 

[Seahorse]

Thanks Keri, hopefully a few less sky is falling posts...

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NO04VXBIS0M[/youtube]

 

[hqcariello]

In my last update, I mentioned that a batch of gimbals was shipping out this week. I was hoping that would be Monday/Tuesday, but there have been a few users with a vibration problem, particularly when pointed straight down. This has not been an issue for all units that have shipped out, and the cause is still a mystery to us, since all gimbals are "identical", but only some units are affected.

After speaking with the gimbal control board manufacturers directly for several hours, our best guess is that the tuning settings are right at the borderline of a natural resonant frequency of the system, and the slight manufacturing variation in motors may be enough to shift the resonant frequency over to the same frequency that the motors are being corrected at. And, it is not necessarily that the motor power was just too high - each of the tuning parameters contributes to the stabilization response, so a similar sort of "fix" could have come from changing other values, and leaving the motor power the same. I've changed the tuning, and have tested it on a random selection of 10 gimbals, and they all seem to work fine at all angles now, so the problem should be gone. This is a plug-and-play gimbal - no one should have to do any tweaking!

I just mentioned that I "changed the tuning", but this is actually where the past several days of delay stem from. When the decision was made to re-tune the gimbal, we figured that it was the perfect opportunity to migrate to the newest gimbal board firmware available (v2.4B7). So, we spent a few days tuning with the new firmware, but it uses a completely different stabilization algorithm, and the PID feedback control loop parameters have different ranges, so we essentially started tuning from scratch. And, PROPER tuning requires quite some time, energy, and appropriate lighting conditions to test properly. (We only did testing when it was very sunny out, to ensure that the shutterspeed was as high as possible, which accentuates any vibration issues... a poorly-tuned gimbal may look like it performs well on an overcast day, so don't take overcast example footage from other gimbal manufacturers with a grain of salt!).

Then, after spending several days tuning, and speaking with the manufacturers again, they advised us to use a previous version instead, since v2.4B7 is still too new to trust fully! So, that meant that we had to go back to the drawing board, and re-tune AGAIN using the existing firmware (v2.2B2). We're all sorted out now though (until the NEXT problem manifests itself....).

I know that some users have already "corrected" the problem by downloading the gimbal control software (from http://www.basecamelectronics.com), and decreasing the motor power... but the other tuning values are then thrown off completely by the change in power, so ideal results will not be achieved. Everyone who has already received their gimbal will receive an email with the updated tuning profile, and instructions explaining how to implement the change.

We have a beautiful PILE of gimbals here, and part of my team is gathering now (after-hours) to update all of the gimbal control boards with the latest info, put the finishing touches on them, package them, and then start rolling out shipping notifications.

Provided that we FINALLY have some smooth sailing ahead of us, we are going to be moving fast over the next few weeks. I've never been more glad to have held back on shipping units out than now. Everyone will be getting a more reliable product as a result!

Thanks, and sorry to the hundreds of people that have still not received personal responses to emails, facebook messages, or youtube comments. We're doing our best!

Keri

THanks, Keri! I knew something had come up to slow down the process. Glad to hear the explanation and the positive results from solving the issues.

 

[rfernandez]

:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: Sure!!! we'll be ramping to 100 per week.. hummm where have I heard that before??? ROFLMAO!! :lol: :lol:

 

[Dz3866]

Wish Rotorpixel all the best, but I'm out, canceled order.....your all bumped up one spot :?

 

[Rotorpixel]

Sure!!! we'll be ramping to 100 per week.. hummm where have I heard that before??? ROFLMAO!! :lol: :lol:

Would you prefer that we blindly manufacture and ship out as many as possible immediately, like the Taco people have done? I don't think so. We actually care about our product working well, out of the box, with no user input, and that is not an easy feat to accomplish because of the inevitable manufacturing/assembly hurdles that can (and have) occur.

While all of these delays have been going on, our machines have been printing parts, and workers have been preparing parts, so I do think that around 100 per week is still a reasonable number that we'll realistically get to shortly. Once this batch of gimbals goes out, I'll be interested to see what feedback we get, and if there are no obvious problems, then we're going to go full steam.

On another note, those of you who have been following this thread may remember that I was busy for a few days upgrading one of our 3D printers to accept a stronger material... the upgrade is complete, so we're now able to *almost* double our 3D part output as hoped. They're printing 24/7.

Keri

 

[wp6529]

Sure!!! we'll be ramping to 100 per week.. hummm where have I heard that before??? ROFLMAO!! :lol: :lol:

Would you prefer that we blindly manufacture and ship out as many as possible immediately, like the Taco people have done?

That is superbly unprofessional and confirms the speculation regarding "rotorpixel" being a legitimate company.

While it is certain that delusional RP fanbois/apologists like "pull_up-or out" will chime in defending this unconscionable behavior the facts speak for themselves.

What a clusterfuck.

The only clusterfuck here is the loud mouthed 1% who claim they know better how to run a small business. If you don't like the RP gimbal, company or whatever or have canceled your pre-order we have no need for you in this thread. Go piss and moan somewhere else, we are through with you.

 

[bobomet]

Sure!!! we'll be ramping to 100 per week.. hummm where have I heard that before??? ROFLMAO!! :lol: :lol:

Would you prefer that we blindly manufacture and ship out as many as possible immediately, like the Taco people have done?

That is superbly unprofessional and confirms the speculation regarding "rotorpixel" being a legitimate company.

While it is certain that delusional RP fanbois/apologists like "pull_up-or out" will chime in defending this unconscionable behavior the facts speak for themselves.

What a clusterfuck.

I'm not sure to whom you're directing your comment here, but I trust you are American (as am I), and more than a little verdant if it's directed at Rotorpixel.
Some of us remember a time, here in the USA, when manufacturing companies of all sizes went to great lengths to sell top-quality products to the public, an exercise that required much trial, error, and correction.
But many Americans are now conditioned to accept any pile of junk, and then ***** until the one who released it would grace them with a "patch" that is often worse than the original problem.
I understand your shortcomings; I just think it's time the rest of the World better understand the basis of statements of this nature.
If you like garbage, then keep eating at Taco Bell, and buy yourself a pacifier by the same name.

 

[bobomet]

Random dude who has successfully run a few small businesses ....

And the term "has" weighs quite a bit in my assessment of your "analysis" ....

 

[bobomet]

I'm not sure to whom you're directing your comment here, but I trust you are American (as am I), and more than a little verdant if it's directed at Rotorpixel.
Some of us remember a time, here in the USA, when manufacturing companies of all sizes went to great lengths to sell top-quality products to the public, an exercise that required much trial, error, and correction.
But many Americans are now conditioned to accept any pile of junk, and then ***** until the one who released it would grace them with a "patch" that is often worse than the original problem.
I understand your shortcomings; I just think it's time the rest of the World better understand the basis of statements of this nature.
If you like garbage, then keep eating at Taco Bell, and buy yourself a pacifier by the same name.

Congrats.

That's one of the most confused and tangential responses that I have read in a great while.

Try again?

p.s I was replying to rotorpixel's post. Is it really that hard to follow the quoting?

Do you think we're in the least surprised that you are "confused"?
We knew that from your 1st post.

 

[browntw79]

Go piss and moan somewhere else, we are through with you.

Hear, hear!

 

[BManCan]

Sure!!! we'll be ramping to 100 per week.. hummm where have I heard that before??? ROFLMAO!! :lol: :lol:

Would you prefer that we blindly manufacture and ship out as many as possible immediately, like the Taco people have done? I don't think so. We actually care about our product working well, out of the box, with no user input, and that is not an easy feat to accomplish because of the inevitable manufacturing/assembly hurdles that can (and have) occur.

Keri

I am glad to hear that Keri (Rotorpixel) are being meticulous and doing everything possible to make their product the best that it can be. They seem to understand how difficult it is to support a premature product release, and deal with endless support issues.
My only complaint is that much of the communication for the delays comes after the fact. I would prefer to have heard from Rotorpixel last weekend or early this week that they were working on vibration concerns. Most of the delays have been for good reason, and a bit of upfront communication would have reduced much of the anxiety that customers are expressing on this forum.

BManCan (#383)