Real Estate

[Phil Tuggle]

Agree 1000%! Real estate agents, as a whole, are also cheap, and the majority won't spend any of their own money on a listing on spec! On the high end properties, the agent can now easily buy their own drone, get a 107 license, and permanently cut you out, for less than you need to charge to make a reasonable business profit for a single listing. Find a different business model, if you want to earn a decent living!

You are right about the agents being cheapsters (I was one for six years). I think they will hesitate though, for the most part, in doing the Part 107 and buying a drone to produce their own media. There will be ambitious exceptions, but most will drop the idea once they see what is involved on the editing side -- especially on high end properties, which must be stellar in quality and content. Photoshop, movie editors, HOURS on the computer, etc, not to mention SKILL. To be honest, 90% cannot create a decent professional still photo and won't even buy a bridge camera with a wide angle lens, let alone a flash. And 99% do not even know the importance of replacing burnt out light bulbs, moving shoes and junk from under the edge of the bed, tangled computer wires, pet food dishes and cages, and sloppy coils of hose, and a rusty grills in the yard, etc etc etc. They will be doing interiors and ground-based work too by necessity, not just flying their glorious machine and reaping the "savings." Ha.

You need to give yourself WAY more credit. Some agents WILL dive right in with their own drones...and then dive right back out, after a little dose of reality hits. Now, for the really HIGH high end agents, yep, they will hire an assistant or two to do as you would expect. Nobody like that in my neighborhood, but maybe the OP's community is different.

 

[GadgetGuy]

You are right about the agents being cheapsters (I was one for six years). I think they will hesitate though, for the most part, in doing the Part 107 and buying a drone to produce their own media. There will be ambitious exceptions, but most will drop the idea once they see what is involved on the editing side -- especially on high end properties, which must be stellar in quality and content. Photoshop, movie editors, HOURS on the computer, etc, not to mention SKILL. To be honest, 90% cannot create a decent professional still photo and won't even buy a bridge camera with a wide angle lens, let alone a flash. And 99% do not even know the importance of replacing burnt out light bulbs, moving shoes and junk from under the edge of the bed, tangled computer wires, pet food dishes and cages, and sloppy coils of hose, and a rusty grills in the yard, etc etc etc

You need to give yourself WAY more credit. Some agents WILL dive right in with their own drones...and then dive right back out, after a little dose of reality hits.

In our area, the agents themselves have already been doing it illegally on their own for years on the $1M and up properties! No reason to get a 107 now! Most agents just use their own cell phone for their listing photos, not even hiring a photographer with a DSLR with proper lighting and wide angle lenses. Heck, a handheld P4 would make a great Osmo for passable interior video!

Rule #1 of business: Don't sell to people who have no money! That includes listing agents! Most sell only a few houses a year and barely make over minimum wage! The top 10% are making 90% of the money, while the other 90% fight over the remaining 10%! The only way it might work is if you hook up with one of the top 10%, but even there, the competition is so stiff with the lowered bar to enty now with a 107, that you'll be quickly undercut by an ambitious college student with free access to all the editing software at school and plenty of time on his hands! Plus, he'll have been flying drones since he was in diapers on video game simulators!

 

[BigAl07]

In our area, the agents themselves have already been doing it illegally on their own for years on the $1M and up properties! No reason to get a 107 now! Most agents just use their own cell phone for their listing photos, not even hiring a photographer with a DSLR with proper lighting and wide angle lenses. Heck, a handheld P4 would make a great Osmo for passable interior video!

NAILED it!!

Same in my area. I can name at least half a dozen Realtors who have their own sUAS and have been doing this against NAR recommendations for years. On top of that I'm now seeing professional photographers who are delving into this arena and adding "Drone Images" to their existing portfolio. I even had one approach me at a wedding we were both working and she stated "That whole license thing is just too much work and trouble. I bought my drone at Best Buy a few months ago and I'm just now getting the feel for it so I can shoot my own drone shots at these events."
(Her exact words not mine). That's part of what we have to deal with and you can't blame them for wanting to expand their business offerings.

I'm fortunate that where I live such a large portion of our Real Estate have such rough geography that Drones are the only way to get some of the shots. So there is a lot of potential for this type of work but I do see a "slump" in the market as many try to save a buck up front but when they want quality work they will give us a call.

I would not base my business model off of Real Estate work unless you're wanting to "dabble" at it. It's a business model that only works about 5% of the time and only then if you happen to have a robust market and you can sell yourself accordingly to beat the rest of the pack. Remember anyone who can buy a drone is suddenly a "professional drone photographer" when in reality a drone is just a flying tripod and lack luster work will always show through at the end of the day.

 

[Multicoptertec]

My wife is a Realtor. Photos for listings are usually a mix of interior and exterior shots. Unless you need photos of a large estate, aerial shots are not needed. As far as interiors, you need the right equipment and skills to take proper photos. I have done many of these, and it pays ok. Of course higher end properties pay more than shacks, lol. Most realtors I know don't have the time, or the expertise to produce acceptable real estate photos, and tend to leave these to a pro. I think there is more money to be made shooting for appraisers, for both residential and commercial ventures. There are also opportunities in roof and structure inspections, radio towers, golf courses, the list goes on.

 

[GadgetGuy]

The successful ones will be those that understand and know how to market and sell their service, rather than the most talented or capable drone photographers/videographers and editors. If you are good at the former, you can hire the latter! If you are actually doing all the shooting yourself, you have really bought yourself a job, rather than a business. A business needs to be profitable for the business owner, with a return on capital invested and at risk, and the owner needs to be able to outsource all roles, so they can focus on business development and marketing. Any service business that the owner does all the work in has limited growth and profitability, because one person can't be in more than one place at a time. In a true business, multiple jobs can be done simultaneously in different locations, because the work is outsourced. Sell the jobs, and outsource the work! There is an unlimited supply of drone photographers, but very few of them know anything about marketing and sales or running a business. If you can be their agent and keep them fully booked, and pay them a fixed cost for doing each job, the sky is the limit! Adjust what they get paid, based upon what you can charge, so you remain profitable no matter what! At least that is a sound business model.

 

[Multicoptertec]

The successful ones will be those that understand and know how to market and sell their service, rather than the most talented or capable drone photographers/videographers and editors. If you are good at the former, you can hire the latter! If you are actually doing all the shooting yourself, you have really bought yourself a job, rather than a business. A business needs to be profitable for the business owner, with a return on capital invested and at risk, and the owner needs to be able to outsource all roles, so they can focus on business development and marketing. Any service business that the owner does all the work in has limited growth and profitability, because one person can't be in more than one place at a time. In a true business, multiple jobs can be done simultaneously in different locations, because the work is outsourced. Sell the jobs, and outsource the work! There is an unlimited supply of drone photographers, but very few of them know anything about marketing and sales or running a business. If you can be their agent and keep them fully booked, and pay them a fixed cost for doing each job, the sky is the limit! Adjust what they get paid, based upon what you can charge, so you remain profitable no matter what! At least that is a sound business model.

True, but that's a lofty goal, and being the boss has its own set of headaches. I have been doing professional photography for 30 years, and have never hired anyone. I like the control I have, and my work is what sells the product.




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[GadgetGuy]

True, but that's a lofty goal, and being the boss has its own set of headaches. I have been doing professional photography for 30 years, and have never hired anyone. I like the control I have, and my work is what sells the product.




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Indeed. With that long in business, you likely already have established the necessary relationships that are required to make a go of it. Your reputation with your clients is probably even more important than your actual work. Nobody wants a talented photographer that is flakey and unreliable!

How have you adapted and evolved through the many changes in the business, where the majority of images are now shared digitally on FB, and prints and wall portraits are virtually obsolete, and cell phone cameras are becoming good enough, and ubiquitous enough, to put most other most professional photographers out of business, where good enough now is better than great tomorrow?

 

[Multicoptertec]

Indeed. With that long in business, you likely already have established the necessary relationships that are required to make a go of it. Your reputation with your clients is probably even more important than your actual work. Nobody wants a talented photographer that is flakey and unreliable!

How have you adapted and evolved through the many changes in the business, where the majority of images are now shared digitally on FB, and prints and wall portraits are virtually obsolete, and cell phone cameras are becoming good enough, and ubiquitous enough, to put most other most professional photographers out of business, where good enough now is better than great tomorrow?

Let me put it this way: Your daughter is getting married. Would you trust her wedding photos to someone with a cell phone?


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[GadgetGuy]

Let me put it this way: Your daughter is getting married. Would you trust her wedding photos to someone with a cell phone?


Sent from my iPhone using PhantomPilots

Darn! There goes my unique selling proposition!
Sounded like such a great idea!
iPhonography Weddings by GG!
Not a winner, eh?

 

[Consultant]

Here's some points you might want to carefully consider:

- There is only a small percentage of homes in an urban/suburban real estate market that an aerial video makes any sense. In many cases, the property is a condo/townhouse or a house that is on a very small lot right next to other house. Yes, maybe an aerial of the surrounding neighborhood, park, cute downtown area is compelling but per FAA rules, you can't fly over people or moving cars without a waiver. More importantly, the Real Estate agent has to be convinced aerials will make a difference despite what the characteristics of the property are.

- All properties need still photos and either agents do it themselves or contract with someone who is a professional photographer. Both these parties can go buy and learn to use a drone just like they have gone and bought and learned to use a $1,500 DSLR camera setup with the right lenses. So not only would you be competing with other Drone Pilots, you are really trying to insert yourself into the Real Estate Photography business which is a mature, highly competitive business.

- Real Estate agents are typically both very busy people and very frugal with their costs in order to maximize their revenue. They are going to prefer to work with one person/company that can provide everything they need and complete the job at one time in one appointment. Someone who can produce BOTH professional video AND still photos and possibly video walkthroughs all at a rock bottom price. Yes, maybe you can subcontract with a Real Estate Photographer but many of them will look at Drones as a new cool camera to own and think why would I share profit when I can do it myself. So bottom line, to compete, you not only need to become an expert at piloting a drone, you will also need to become an expert at photography which is a whole other area of knowledge.

- Weather is your enemy in many markets. Just imagine showing up to do everything and you can't fly because it's too windy. So you have to do only the interior stuff and then schedule a second appointment to come back and do your aerials. Now you probably just ended up making $10/hr (or lucky to break even) based on all the time you invested start to finish.

I can see a lot of Drone Enthusiast/Hobbyist types thinking, wouldn't it be cool to make a little money doing Real Estate aerials. That's really still a hobby, NOT a business that pays the bills. Can it be done? Sure! But manage your expectations of how hard it is accordingly.

Money is made in the Real Estate Photogaphy market based on HIGH VOLUME, not high profit margin. Aerial Drone videography doesn't lend itself well to this type of market for the majority of properties.

 

[GadgetGuy]

Here's some points you might want to carefully consider:

- There is only a small percentage of homes in an urban/suburban real estate market that an aerial video makes any sense. In many cases, the property is a condo/townhouse or a house that is on a very small lot right next to other house. Yes, maybe an aerial of the surrounding neighborhood, park, cute downtown area is compelling but per FAA rules, you can't fly over people or moving cars without a waiver. More importantly, the Real Estate agent has to be convinced aerials will make a difference despite what the characteristics of the property are.

- All properties need still photos and either agents do it themselves or contract with someone who is a professional photographer. Both these parties can go buy and learn to use a drone just like they have gone and bought and learned to use a $1,500 DSLR camera setup with the right lenses. So not only would you be competing with other Drone Pilots, you are really trying to insert yourself into the Real Estate Photography business which is a mature, highly competitive business.

- Real Estate agents are typically both very busy people and very frugal with their costs in order to maximize their revenue. They are going to prefer to work with one person/company that can provide everything they need and complete the job at one time in one appointment. Someone who can produce BOTH professional video AND still photos and possibly video walkthroughs all at a rock bottom price. Yes, maybe you can subcontract with a Real Estate Photographer but many of them will look at Drones as a new cool camera to own and think why would I share profit when I can do it myself. So bottom line, to compete, you not only need to become an expert at piloting a drone, you will also need to become an expert at photography which is a whole other area of knowledge.

- Weather is your enemy in many markets. Just imagine showing up to do everything and you can't fly because it's too windy. So you have to do only the interior stuff and then schedule a second appointment to come back and do your aerials. Now you probably just ended up making $10/hr (or lucky to break even) based on all the time you invested start to finish.

I can see a lot of Drone Enthusiast/Hobbyist types thinking, wouldn't it be cool to make a little money doing Real Estate aerials. That's really still a hobby, NOT a business that pays the bills. Can it be done? Sure! But manage your expectations of how hard it is accordingly.

Money is made in the Real Estate Photogaphy market based on HIGH VOLUME, not high profit margin. Aerial Drone videography doesn't lend itself well to this type of market for the majority of properties.

Completely agree! Well put!
The best business model is to host workshops teaching others everything they need to know to become a successful real estate drone photographer! Then the rest is up to them, while you make bank, by selling them the knowledge to realize their dream job! Hope springs eternal! Support their dream!

 

[JWH]

Thank you all for the feedback. Like the original poster, I was hoping to start a small photography business marketing to the real estate business. It sounds like I may need to explore some other areas. Fortunately, I am not relying on it for my living. It is just for extra cash.

 

[Phil Tuggle]

Thank you all for the feedback. Like the original poster, I was hoping to start a small photography business marketing to the real estate business. It sounds like I may need to explore some other areas. Fortunately, I am not relying on it for my living. It is just for extra cash.

Here is what I might suggest...depending on your market - Beverly Hills, California vs. Beverly Hills, Florida - you might consider including just one ore two stills along with the more traditional exterior and interior shots, and reserve aerial VIDEOS for the higher end or expansive properties. That is not to say not to create video clips (using normal camera equipment) on the ground level for tours the client wants.

I have found the videos and stills from the Phantom 3 drone are great additions to more elaborate tours, especially things like driveway or lakeside approaches to homes and boat docks, that can look so much better than the competitive homes that way. As mentioned, those are just occasional items in areas that are not quite affluent.

The good news is, YOU CAN FORGET REAL ESTATE altogether and rather market yourself to builders, roofers, and insurance companies instead. They will line up for the drone-based imaging services you offer and simply pass on their costs to their clients (i.e., THEY don't actually pay in the long run - just like high Corporate taxes - it simply get's passed on to the end user). Works for me, and way easier than enticing a real estate agent to erode their commission.

 

[JWH]

Here is what I might suggest...depending on your market - Beverly Hills, California vs. Beverly Hills, Florida - you might consider including just one ore two stills along with the more traditional exterior and interior shots, and reserve aerial VIDEOS for the higher end or expansive properties. That is not to say not to create video clips (using normal camera equipment) on the ground level for tours the client wants.

I have found the videos and stills from the Phantom 3 drone are great additions to more elaborate tours, especially things like driveway or lakeside approaches to homes and boat docks, that can look so much better than the competitive homes that way. As mentioned, those are just occasional items in areas that are not quite affluent.

The good news is, YOU CAN FORGET REAL ESTATE altogether and rather market yourself to builders, roofers, and insurance companies instead. They will line up for the drone-based imaging services you offer and simply pass on their costs to their clients (i.e., THEY don't actually pay in the long run - just like high Corporate taxes - it simply get's passed on to the end user). Works for me, and way easier than enticing a real estate agent to erode their commission.

Thank you for taking the time to reply. There are a lot of roofers, builders, and insurance companies around here. I am just south of Atlanta. I will see what I can find out.

My guess is that it will be a wave. I figure that it will be harder to sell our services once drones become more common.

 

[Phil Tuggle]

.. I will see what I can find out.
My guess is that it will be a wave. I figure that it will be harder to sell our services once drones become more common.

If I may offer just one more recommendation...Before visiting any of these folks, with the drone go take a picture of a new roof (metal is ideal), a commercial or residential construction project, and a damaged home. Have these on easy access on your notebook/iPad/laptop. A picture will win clients far better than words in my experience.

I am no expert - just my 2 cents.

 

[JWH]

If I may offer just one more recommendation...Before visiting any of these folks, with the drone go take a picture of a new roof (metal is ideal), a commercial or residential construction project, and a damaged home. Have these on easy access on your notebook/iPad/laptop. A picture will win clients far better than words in my experience.

I am no expert - just my 2 cents.

That goes along with the old saying "A picture is worth a thousand words"! It sounds like you have some marketing experience.

 

[Phil Tuggle]

That goes along with the old saying "A picture is worth a thousand words"! It sounds like you have some marketing experience.

A little, but we get by okay. Thanks!

 

[GadgetGuy]

That goes along with the old saying "A picture is worth a thousand words"! It sounds like you have some marketing experience.

Best advice---don't quit your day job! This really isn't much of a business opportunity, unless you already have the connections and relationships in place, or are adding it as an ancillary service to an existing already profitable business. However, it will allow you to write off all your equipment against existing other income, while you "try" for two years!

 

[JWH]

Best advice---don't quit your day job! This really isn't much of a business opportunity, unless you already have the connections and relationships in place, or are adding it as an ancillary service to an existing already profitable business. However, it will allow you to write off all your equipment against existing other income, while you "try" for two years!

I am not depending on it for income at all. It will just be a fun way to make a little bit of extra cash to supplement my retirement pay. I would be happy if it just pays for the toys! I am guessing that it there will only be temporary demand for it anyway. The demand will most likely drop as more people get drones.

 

[GadgetGuy]

I am not depending on it for income at all. It will just be a fun way to make a little bit of extra cash to supplement my retirement pay. I would be happy if it just pays for the toys! I am guessing that it there will only be temporary demand for it anyway. The demand will most likely drop as more people get drones.

The demand remains unchanged. The oversupply of now legal drone operators is what will quickly drive prices into the ground. With 107, they now will all be legal drone operators, instead of operating underground, for want of a real pilot to fly the drone commercially. I'm sure your goal will be easily met, even if making no business profit. A business loss against ordinary income will have Uncle Sam subsidizing your toy purchases!